Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

[cabatli_53]

Pakistan officials with T-129 Atak

 

[Gentelman]

WZ-10 has AKD-10 which is hellfire equavalent:

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=/#/watch?v=9CMsTtuhcuc&feature=related

Moreover, once it's powered by WZ-16 turboshaft, it will be able to carry 16 of them.

Cirit is nice but unlike apkws it is only loaded in dual or quad launchers as far as I have seen, probably due to the effect of rocket exhaust on delicate seeker head(apkws has pop out seekers on fins for this very reason) because of which it cannot be loaded in densely packed launchers, due to this it doesn't add much firepower.

Why the hell you don't stop acting like an Indian who is bragging about LCA whick is not ready.
WZ-16 is something different in which French are involved.
AKD-10 <UTMAS<Hellfire why don't you understand saying something is equal don't make it equal :pissed'

 

[Gentelman]

purpose of discussion is not to criticize the Govt.
but i appreciate the govt dicission to import of helicopter
but there is miss understanding b/w arm forces and govt as always
like
COAS requested russian delegation 2 months earlier for mi-24
many experts suggested Chinese equipments
but govt is chooses other
why Chinese wz-10 is better because

• low price
• good record of china to deliver equipments on time
• no fear of sanctions specially war time
• modification by our own need in future
• in future we can also join Chinese in medium role helicopter program

Simply 1 thing is there.
PA don't need experimentation and just needs a trusted workhorse rather than an experiment with engine issues and some degraded weapons & avionic equipments.
T-129 can also serve in cold conditions and it has safety equips and systems i.e ice detector which can detect ice buildup on helis critical part.
Do WZ-10 comes with this??
And its TOT so PAC would be dilevering.
not TAI…

 

[Gentelman]

8 Atgms are not ideal for us as we have the worlds biggest armored battles !!!!

Soo ever noticed what WZ-10 gonna do in night time tank battles when compared to T-129??
T-129 has robust structure and ideal night time fighting capabilities and its survillance and spotting capabilities are also much better than Chineese counterpart…

 

[Gentelman]

WZ-10 is right choice for PAF as ATAK uses several US made parts; supply of mentioned parts is prone to sanction.

care to mention 2 US nade part expect engine??
As far as i know
Turk Avionucs
turk radar
turk IRST
Turk HMDS(replaced topowl after first batch)
Airframe also produced in turkey
just the air-air missiles are of Aim series
abti tank UTMAS and some other french & US

 

[Bilal.]

Why the hell you don't stop acting like an Indian who is bragging about LCA whick is not ready.
WZ-16 is something different in which French are involved.
AKD-10 <UTMAS<Hellfire why don't you understand saying something is equal don't make it equal :pissed'

Talk respectfully with those who are doing the same with you or don't reply to me. It's a discussion forum, expect people to have different opinions, learn to live with it.

This<that said by you makes no difference unless you can logically back it up.

wZ-16 is codeveloped, meaning both will hold full control on the product unlike license production that can have limiting clauses and some critical parts still being imported.

 

[hacksquat]

wZ-16 is codeveloped, meaning both will hold full control on the product unlike license production that can have limiting clauses and some critical parts still being imported.

There seems to be some confusion on T-129's licensing so let me try to clarify. As we all know AW-129's all rights belong to Agustawestland and that still holds true. TAI and AW created a special model, the "T-129" where AW is the subcontrator. That is, ALL RIGHTS of T-129 belongs to TAI (unlike AW-129) and Turkey is free to sell it to anyone it sees appropriate (except Italy and UK which was a part of the original deal). Hence, T-129 is not a licence production since all rights belong to solely Turkey and no one else. Now, I am talking about the gunship as a whole here. AFAIK there is one single license produced part in T-129 that is the engine. Even that is completely produced in Turkey and I am sure even under sanctions we can supply some spares to Pakistan under the table. I hope this clears it up.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Soo ever noticed what WZ-10 gonna do in night time tank battles when compared to T-129??
T-129 has robust structure and ideal night time fighting capabilities and its survillance and spotting capabilities are also much better than Chineese counterpart&#8230;

Beta pehlay aik baat samajh lay, you can't convince anybody buy just saying that this is > than that. as @Bilal. already said that if you have convince someone than you have to back up your views by sufficient proof.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

I think we all are excited and thinking that just a visit to Turkey might make up a deal for T-129 ATAK but the reality is that PAA might be seeking to have a deal with China for Z-10P and PAC would be involved in it too.

I am sure we are in talks with Turkey for JV in Military and commercial sector like Having our own Automotive brand; like making our own Bikes,cars and other vehicles...

INSHA ALLAH.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Pakistan officials with T-129 Atak

WOW ..... Nice dramatic appearance of T-129, perhaps on the arrival of Nawaz Shrif.

 

[cabatli_53]

There seems to be some confusion on T-129's licensing so let me try to clarify. As we all know AW-129's all rights belong to Agustawestland and that still holds true. TAI and AW created a special model, the "T-129" where AW is the subcontrator. That is, ALL RIGHTS of T-129 belongs to TAI (unlike AW-129) and Turkey is free to sell it to anyone it sees appropriate (except Italy and UK which was a part of the original deal). Hence, T-129 is not a licence production since all rights belong to solely Turkey and no one else. Now, I am talking about the gunship as a whole here. AFAIK there is one single license produced part in T-129 that is the engine. Even that is completely produced in Turkey and I am sure even under sanctions we can supply some spares to Pakistan under the table. I hope this clears it up.

Besides, For members who are trying not to understand TAI's T-129 Atak project, Click Agusta Westland's official webpage and check T-129 Atak section. You will see the name of TAI as main partner of Atak in there (in official Agusta Westland's page). I mean Noone puts the name of licenced institute in their page.

Some basics:

-TAI is the main contactor of Atak project.
-TAI holds all intellectual and property rights of copter including exporting to 3rd countries.
-TAI holds outsourcing the production shares to 3rd countries If It is needed.
-TAI is the sole source of manufacturing the fuselage in World.
-The all performance risks, trial assesments are under TAI'S responsibility
-All education, training, maintenance and after-deal supply mechanism will be provided by TAI.
-Turkey's ATAK training center and Havelsan's domestic Atak simulators will serve training purposes for All Atak costumers.
-Next generation Atak variants, new system integrations are under TAI'S responsibility. At present, TAI told There will be two variant called Atak-A and Atak-B. Atak-C variant will have a different and longer nose section with MMW radar integrated fuselage whose take off weight is also increased a littile bit.
-Roketsan is charged to develop all main and sub missile developer institute for Atak team.
-Havelsan is charged to develop simulation and training solutions.
-Aselsan is main electronic/electrooptic/EW/mission computer supplier of Atak.


TAI's Test-bed black Atak for further variant development and new technology application efforts.

Is there anything complicated to understand ?

 

[IND151]

care to mention 2 US nade part expect engine??
As far as i know
Turk Avionucs
turk radar
turk IRST
Turk HMDS(replaced topowl after first batch)
Airframe also produced in turkey
just the air-air missiles are of Aim series
abti tank UTMAS and some other french & US

I read somewhere that some avionics are US made.

Even if its just engine, it is enough to make problem. What if in time of war, US stops supplying spare equipment needed for engines and pressurises Turkey to do the same?

 

[cabatli_53]

I read somewhere that some avionics are US made.

Even if its just engine, it is enough to make problem. What if in time of war, US stops supplying spare equipment needed for engines and pressurises Turkey to do the same?

Dude, Pakistan is one of the most important non-NATO costumer and purchasing many Western COMPLETE products such as aircrafts, AEW&C, air defence systems, UAV's and They will keep purchasing. If Pakistan shaped their procurement systems based on fears, They would never order anything but outsource all requirements to"reliable" partners with sacrificing the quality standarts.

Besides, Motor in T-129 Atak is not COMPLETE product but a part of whole system which is manufactured by reliable Turkish industry. At this aspect, I really don't understandat What's the logic of spreading fear propaganda over motors, While Pakistan is purchasing many Western complete products ? Besides, LHTES equivalent motors are being developed by a few countries that Biggest helicopter manufacturers of the World even bow their heads to purchase their power package...


BTW, Avionic package are supplied with domestic products developed by Aselsan locating in Ankara, Turkey...

ATAK mission computer and avionic test labratory.

Aselsan's new lighter MFD system called VMFD-68 which is specially designed for computer based applications...

Old MFD

 

[nomi007]

AKD-10 anti-tank guided missile

canon fire

 

[Gentelman]

I read somewhere that some avionics are US made.

Even if its just engine, it is enough to make problem. What if in time of war, US stops supplying spare equipment needed for engines and pressurises Turkey to do the same?

once topowl HMDS was used in just 1st batch now replaced.
well engine is made under TOT in turkey.
In sanctations you think Turkey will be providing Pakistan with engines in spot light with some cameras & media guyz??