your treatment? why?

[livingdead]

When it was strictly discussed that all religious issues will be moved to senior's cafe,then why the hell you guys are arguing in here?? @Aeronaut ...I request you to move this thread to senior's cafe,before trollers show up with extreme abuse....
I appreciate few sincere members here,but rest of the trash mush be removed at all cost!!

sorry, the reason I am drawing your attention is to annoy you.
Its quite frustrating that you dont get annoyed easily..

Anyway I want to annoy you, because you implied in your complain that non muslims some how bring religion to bash muslims.
However its a problem of both sides.

You dont see many threads with hindu theology.. or hindus bringing their holybook to justify anything (from global warming to how to shave pubes)... same goes for christians, jews, sikhs etc, very few bring religion here.

 

[third eye]

2. Prohibition of alcohol in the Bible The Bible prohibits the consumption of alcohol in the following verses:

a. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." [Proverbs 20:1] b. "And be not drunk with

wine. "[Ephesians 5:18]

I am sorry but I did not see any Prohibition clause in what you have posted here.

Why is drinking being singled out ? Does any religious book or religion permit or encourage Cheating, Robbery,Theft, Drugs and so many other wrongs ?

The greatest irony I find is Pious God Fearing Muslims in Af engaged in growing Poppy and its use & transportation by equally religious & God fearing Muslims in Pakistan.

Do not take this otherwise , I do not intend to troll but what I am getting at is God & his word must be followed in its entirety not selectively .

 

[Slav Defence]

sorry, the reason I am drawing your attention is to annoy you.
Its quite frustrating that you dont get annoyed easily..

Anyway I want to annoy you, because you implied in your complain that non muslims some how bring religion to bash muslims.
However its a problem of both sides.

You dont see many threads with hindu theology.. or hindus bringing their holybook to justify anything (from global warming to how to shave pubes)... same goes for christians, jews, sikhs etc, very few bring religion here.

Hinduguy you misunderstood...I was not suggesting that only Islamic topics must be shifted to senior's cafe...I was talking about other religions too...like Christianity,Hinduism etc...
I am myself a man of religion so how can I be so senseless about feeling and psychology of my Indian,Chinese and american members...??

 

[livingdead]

Hinduguy you misunderstood...I was not suggesting that only Islamic topics must be shifted to senior's cafe...I was talking about other religions too...like Christianity,Hinduism etc...
I am myself a man of religion so how can I be so senseless about feeling and psychology of my Indian,Chinese and american members...??

i agree, all religion topics should be in senior cafe.
The issue is, for most muslims here, islam is a framework to live life and it influences their behaviour in every step and decision making process.

If that is the case, you will always find some people saying this is wrong because islam says so(instead of showing secular moral argument).
For example : 'One should not kill another human' being for example wont be debated based on scintific or moral view point but religious one.

Mods can never clamp down because overwhelming number of pakistani posters (including very decent one, and even mods themselves) use religious scripture to further their arguments.

Something like that will be unthinkable in a secular forum.

 

[Slav Defence]

i agree, all religion topics should be in senior cafe.
The issue is, for most muslims here, islam is a framework to live life and it influences their behaviour in every step and decision making process.

If that is the case, you will always find some people saying this is wrong because islam says so(instead of showing secular moral argument).
For example : 'One should not kill another human' being for example wont be debated based on scintific or moral view point but religious one.

Mods can never clamp down because overwhelming number of pakistani posters (including very decent one, and even mods themselves) use religious scripture to further their arguments.

Something like that will be unthinkable in a secular forum.

So,who said this to you that nature of this forum is secular?
PDF just provide a general round table conference to all people around the world,not provides a system of some sort..
and if it does then PDF team believes in democratic way of speech without personal attacks and abuse..
and if our non-Muslim members have issues with Muslim members for referencing Quran then why need to be so shy?
instead of getting annoyed and trolling just talk to them,saying:"please talk to me with scientific reference,don't drag religion,as I am non-Muslim"

 

[livingdead]

So,who said this to you that nature of this forum is secular?
PDF just provide a general round table conference to all people around the world,not provides a system of some sort..
and if it does then PDF team believes in democratic way of speech without personal attacks and abuse..
and if our non-Muslim members have issues with Muslim members for referencing Quran then why need to be so shy?
instead of getting annoyed and trolling just talk to them,saying:"please talk to me with scientific reference,don't drag religion,as I am non-Muslim"

I did not say this is secular forum. Which is why there will be certain religious nature to arguments and people will return it will rejection of your religious views and counter arguments. That, even done in a decent manner will be offensive to many.

So lets accept that its always going to be like this.
However dedicated religious thread like this one can be acted upon.

 

[Slav Defence]

I did not say this is secular forum. Which is why there will be certain religious nature to arguments and people will return it will rejection of your religious views and counter arguments. That, even done in a decent manner will be offensive to many.

So lets accept that its always going to be like this.
However dedicated religious thread like this one can be acted upon.

Really??I never saw an a decent way taken as offensive..
but yes I do agree that some members do become emotional..and I've seen this on both sides.
thats why I suggest such topics to be only allowed to members of high reputation,not some emotional fools.

 

[livingdead]

Really??I never saw an a decent way taken as offensive..
but yes I do agree that some members do become emotional..and I've seen this on both sides.
thats why I suggest such topics to be only allowed to members of high reputation,not some emotional fools.

I agree with you 100 percent, that will take care of thread like this, but vast majority of religious flame war happens in non religious threads.
There is no way mods will hand out infraction for brining religion in those threads, because the forum will be empty then.

 

[revol]

Some of the reasons Scripture condemns the use of alcoholic beverages are that they distort the perception of reality (Is 28:7; Prov 23:33); they impair the capacity to make moral, responsible decisions (Lev 10:9-11); they weaken moral sensitivities and inhibitions (Gen 9:21; 19:32; Hab 2:15; Is 5:11-12); they cause physical sickness (Prov 23:20-21; Hos 7:5; Is 19:14; Ps 60:3); and they disqualify for both civil and religious service (Prov 31:4-5; Lev 10:9-11; Ezek 44:23; 1 Tim 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8)."

‫

 

[revol]

There are several scientific reasons for the prohibition of consumption of intoxicants i.e. alcohol. The maximum number of deaths in the world related to any one particular cause is due to the consumption of alcohol. Millions of people die every year only because of intake of alcohol. I need not go into the details of all the ill-effects of alcohol since most of them are commonly known. Below is a simple list of few of the alcohol related illnesses:
1. Cirrhosis of Liver is the most well-known alcohol associated disease.
2. Others are Cancer of Oesophagus, Cancer of Head and Neck, Cancer of Liver (Hepatoma), Cancer of Bowel, etc.
3. Oesophagitis, Gastritis, Pancreatitis and Hepatitis are linked with alcohol consumption.
4. Cardiomyopathy, Hypertension, Coronary Artherosclerosis, Angina and Heart Attacks are linked with heavy alcohol intakes.

‫

 

[revol]

Talon,thank you

------

107. And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
Surah Al-Anbiyah'

DVD 9 Muhummed (Pbuh) The Greatest youtube


75. The Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allah and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allah does not eat). Look how We make the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).

5.Surah Al-Ma'idah

Jesus (PBUH) Beloved Prophet of Islam - Ahmed Deedat youtube

 

[revol]

Allah says (Ye who believe intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.


- Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?) 90-91].

Allah

forbade drinking wine


the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him forbade drinking wine

even small amounts , this is confirmed by the verses and hadiths by a thousand and four hundred years


But some doctors were claiming that a little wine can be a cure and heal , and some have claimed that a little of it animates Fouad , what says the latest study on the subject of wine?


In a study conducted by Dr Sarah Lewis of the Department of Social Medicine , University of Bristol found a strong relationship between alcohol intake and between high blood pressure , and said that drinking alcohol affects blood pressure much more than we thought previously. Has conducted a study on a specific segment of people who are suffering from their body 's inability to remove the effects of alcohol after eating . But that does not mean that the damage is limited to these , but every day reveals a new scientists about the damage alcohol .


The number of researchers confirmed that a man , even if eating a small amount of wine it would negatively affect the health and gradually lead to a rise in blood pressure , which causes sudden death of its owner , if not get rid of the final alcohol abuse .


Dr. Sarah says :


This study shows that alcohol consumption may increase blood pressure to a very large border more than we thought and even if a person drinking alcohol in small quantities .

 

[Dubious]

You must understand that your body is not 100% in your hands. For example, you dont control the whole automatic circulation in your body. Like the heart.. the heart is not a pump that you can turn on or off with your own will (without force). Or your lunges etc. So your body is indepented from you (the control). If you take bad things, your body can react other then your mind wants. Your mind is not the control centre of your body. It is a part but it doesnt have the total control. So your body can really react addicted to the stuff and if your mind cant handle it anymore you will stay on that agent.

Scientists have a reason why they divided the brain into sections and call it DIFFERENT names...

Like the heart pumping is controlled from the center which DOES NOT control your actions nor your thinking...

Yeast, which are placed in the dough
Do not cause loss of concentration, loss of consciousness
Such as wine
Yeast valid
Wine was forbidden corrupt

Narrated By 'Aisha : Allah's Apostle was asked about Al-Bit. He said, "All drinks that intoxicate are unlawful (to drink.)

Sahih al-Bukhary, The Book of Drinks, Hadith Number:5644, Narrated by: Lady Aisha Bint-Abu-Bakr

Your question being?

1st what you must understand is what is TOXIC to our cells and what is not!

NEXT you must understand what is alcohol Chemically!

That should answer ANY of your questions!

 

[forcetrip]

He made the district hospital (Cook) in (Chicago) made the following statement:
Summarized the proportion of deaths among all deaths in 3422 of pneumonia due to the injury.
78.49% of them are between excessive drinking.
40.34% of them are intermediate between the drinking of alcohol.
45.22% of them are among those who never drink, or drink a little.
And is similar to these numbers and this percentage another permit for the hospital (Bellevue) in the state (New York).
«In a thousand cases of pneumonia were five hundred of them are addicted to alcohol, while 24% of them who drink »

I forgot to answer to these statistics you posted. Pneumonia? 3422 people died of Pneumonia because they drank? Are these stats of 2012 or 2013 or Since the Hospital was founded? Find out how many people died of Pneumonia because of drinking after the year 2000 each year. I guarantee you that those numbers will be falling in the US at the same time the alcohol consumption for the country will be increasing. What does that tell you?

Also I somehow disagree with our forums no religious matter discussed stance. Religion is the cause for all turmoil in the world today. If you can discuss and change even one person mind how pointless religious differences are in the over all big picture, you would have done a great service to the future of your children. But shouting obscenities and calling people terrorist and kaffir isnt how you change minds. You change minds with cold hard numbers. Im too lazy to dig up most facts but the numbers support that die hard fans of religions are being duped.

 

[revol]

this big reason

----

The sinful ways of using intoxicants are further given light in the Quran in 5:90 which tells us that intoxicants and gambling are works of the devil. Also in 5:91 where we are told that the devil entices people to use intoxicants and gambling to spread animosity and hatred between people and to distract the human from commemorating God.

Thus it is these sinful uses of intoxicants alone (which contain "ithm"), which are prohibited. Obviously if intoxicants are used in surgery it is not spreading animosity or hatred among people, it would infact be helping people, and thus would not be prohibited.

Those who claim that drinking was prohibited in stages, or that it was permitted until the revelation of the Quran, show their ignorance with God's unchangeable law (33:62).
It is well known that alcohol drinking was prohibited in the previous scripture as well, and not only with the advent of the Quran. In the Bible we read:
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1).
"Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder" (Proverbs 23:30,31)