Your (realistic) military shopping list were you in an omnipotent position within the MoD

[MilSpec]

Hey guys, I had nothing better to do (well I do but this was more fun ) so I thought about what I would do was I was in a position implement my purchases and policies/strategies I have kept it to what I feel is conceivable, affordable and practical







I would very much be interest to see your lists ladies and gentlemen but lets keep it practical and within the realms of possibility...



I'll be adding more soon.


@sancho @Dillinger @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Sidak @kurup @Water Car Engineer @Oscar @Aeronaut @Chinese-Dragon @500 @Penguin @@jiki @Span @nair @Fulcrum15 @Omega007 @kbd-raaf @sandy_3126 @Capt.Popeye @KRAIT @arp2041 @Daedalus @Mike_Brando @acetophenol @jbgt90 @Joe Shearer @sudhir007 @OrionHunter

Wishlist: All achievable Within two years


1> K172 - Novator

2> Indigenous Sub Munition Pinaka - MBRL

3> Replace all Prithvi 1 and II with the Prahar

4> CZ75 Sp01 Sidearm For all combatants

5> Raise 1000 strong tank regiment with Arjun Mk2

6> Self Propelled 155 mm Howitzer based on Arjun Chasis

7> this on is a curve ball: AC-130 Spooky

8> Indian Version of Aviation Thermobaric Bomb of Increased Power (ATBIP) - FOAB

9> ER seeker for Astra I/II

10> Joint Development for K77 Aesa Seeker with Russia.

11> Brahmos M- Qualification on LCA, Mig29k/upg, M2K mki and jaguar.

12> Tejas LCA Mk2 FOC- by mid 2015

13> Indi AESA for LCA Mk2

14> Bomblet munitions for Smerch

15> .338 LM chambered Barrett M98B

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I have had this argument with a very knowledgeable individual on another forum as to the existence of sniper school in India, and he has pretty much flatly laid out that no such school exists. Given his knowledge and his credibility, I would still stick with his opinion.

Good for you and him...ask him about MHOW next time.

 

[MST]

I will only ask for one i.e. Star Ship Enterprise - which the US will build in 2050.


On a serious note better put some monetary limit.

Realistically too India doesn't have river of dollars flowing.


Better question would -

"How will you spend $100 Billion in the next 10 years if you were Indian Minister of Defense"

 

[MilSpec]

I will only ask for one i.e. Star Ship Enterprise - which the US will build in 2050.


On a serious note better put some monetary limit.

Realistically too India doesn't have river of dollars flowing.


Better question would -

"How will you spend $100 Billion in the next 10 years if you were Indian Minister of Defense"

First approve the pensions and disability benefits of all War veterans, if it was me.

 

[Sahasranama]

Spend 4 % of GDP on Research & Development, specifically in Defence areas.

 

[C130]

well if I was in the position to dictate how the U.S military is run and comprised of it would be like this

first for the navy
7 Ford Super Carriers
52 advance Arleigh Burke destroyers
18 new class of cruisers
8 American class amphibious assault carriers
12 Mistral class helicopter carriers
10 new SSBN to replace Ohio class with 24 Trident II
30 Virginia class subs
24 Type 212 subs with VLS for Tomahawk cruise missiles

army and airforce are fine
maybe should work on getting more drones and better weapons to arm them, cheaper,smaller, and more precise.

 

[Echo_419]

The CAESAR is a great weapon and suits well for the now developing roads of NE & NW India. I would not focus that much so soon on the infantry "super" rather than just improving his survivability up north and increasing support potential. While the video may have been a mockery as such of the Chinese patrol trying to break into Indian lines, it tells you exactly the sort of Horde India is to expect. In that terrain, quick and Precise Arty is going to be the name of the game. Light fire support in the form of Better Mortars and HE/Frag guided weaponry is going to be needed.

The trucks for that CAESAR platform will be provided by Indian companies,so they will definitely suit our terrain

 

[sancho]

IAF:

-2 x A50 Phaldcons + 3 x EMB 145 DRDO AWACS (long term AWACS India based on MTA)
- no additional C17s => A400MRTTs at reduced costs from Germany's and Spain's orders
- 9 x A330 NEO MRTTs + 3 x A330 NEO Air Force One / Command and Control (for PM, President and forces during war time)
- 190 (126 + 64) x Rafale F3+, with RBE 2 AESA, Topsight HMS, FSO-TV / IR, Litening G4, SPICE 250 quadpack, Maitri IR, Sudarshan LGB
- 60 x LCA MK2, with RBE 2 AESA, Topsight HMS, FSO-TV / IR, Litening G4, SPICE 250 quadpack, Maitri IR, Sudarshan LGB
- 100 x LCA MK2 (including replacements for MK1s) with indigenous AESA
- no Apaches => Rudra and LCH
- no Chinooks => leasing of Mi 26 T2 (fastest, most capable and most cost-effective short term solution) + joint development of larger Kamov K92 with rear ramp (NG helicopter development, with joint benefits and capabilities developed according to Indian needs)
- 20 x V22 x for the 2 special ops squads, alongside the C130Js for CSAR or MEDIVAC roles
- Eurocopter Fennec with Shakti engine, same avionics and rotors as HAL LUH
- 60 x C295W as Avro replacements + 5 for BSF
- additional Pilatus trainers and if IJT fails more Hawk trainers too
- HALE drone jointly developed with Israel, with Kaveri engine
- AURA UCAV based on HALE drone development, same engine, same techs, different (stealth) designs + attack capability


IN:

(IF the US really want a deeper relation to India) - S70s and V22 in licence production deals, with propper ToT. S70s for the short to mid range ASW and utility role on standard vessels, V22s for the long range ASW and utility role on carriers and LHDs + V22 AWACS versions with DRDO radar system
- 15 to 20 x C295W MPAs + the same number for ICG
- 3 more x P8Is
- Rustom H UAV with CLGM launch capability
- 6 x carrier fleet with Vikramaditya & IAC 1 STOBAR carriers in the 40 to 45.000t class (Arabian Sea & Bay of Bengal), 2 x IAC2 CATOBAR carrier in the 60 to 65.000t class (IOR and beyond), 2 x smaller IAC1 STOVL carriers (ASW, anti piracy and disaster relief roles)
- larger fleet of JSS's in tanker, fleet support or disaster relief roles

- no N-LCA => customized Mig 29Ks with indigenous AESA, Kaveri engine, Topsight HMS, Astra, Maitri IR, Sudharshan LGB
- naval AMCA, developed as a carrier fighter in the first place, based on Rafale M for the use from catapult or ski-jump carriers, design, weapons, avionics based on FGFA, with indigenous AESA and Kaveri engines

- 6 additional Scorpenes with 2 x off the shelf from DCNS, the last 3 and all additionals with French AIP, export naval Scalp, Maitri SAM
- 12 x U216 customized for India with Indian sonar, jointly developed AIP, Brahmos M tube launched, Nirbhay VLS, Maitri SAM
- 24 x Yasen SSNs (first 8 hulls produced in Russia, latter licence produced in India), with upgraded Arihant propulsion, Brahmos M, Nirbhay, Maitri SAM

- Maitri & Barak 8 SAM


IA:

- M777 & Dhanush towed howitzers
- jointly developed M777 wheeled 6x6 self-propelled howitzer, with Archer auto loading system
- Dhanush based tracked self-propelled howitzer, on Bhim chassis
- T72 upgrades with Arjun MK2 turret

- Maitri & Barak 8 SAM

- Tata Kestrel 8x8 IFV
- K21 tracked IFV (if on offer???)
- If possible both with the same turrets and optronics

- Rudra & LCH with CLGM & Helina
- Rustom H UAVs with attack capability
- Eurocopter Fennec with Shakti engine, same avionics and rotors as HAL LUH
- possibly Ka 31 diverted from IN
- Mi 17s diverted from IAF

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

10 of these

 

[sancho]

The CAESAR is a great weapon and suits well for the now developing roads of NE & NW India. I would not focus that much so soon on the infantry "super" rather than just improving his survivability up north and increasing support potential. While the video may have been a mockery as such of the Chinese patrol trying to break into Indian lines, it tells you exactly the sort of Horde India is to expect. In that terrain, quick and Precise Arty is going to be the name of the game. Light fire support in the form of Better Mortars and HE/Frag guided weaponry is going to be needed.

The need of light wheeled and tracked fire power is recognized by IA, there were RFPs send out for wheeled and tracked self-propelled howitzers, for mortar carriers or light tanks, but as usual in IA competitions, nothing has become reality.
The problem with the CAESAR is, the limitations of it's gun, which is restricted to a certain angle only, that makes repositioning of the platform necessary, to attack a target in another than the forward direction. More over, the high ammount of crew that is needed and the low ammount of ammo it can carry, makes it not very efficient. The original Denel T-5 is based on a 6x6 should be similarly mobile on the road, but offers full 360° attack angle and more ammo storage. Sadly Tata has put the gun on an 8x8 platform, which makes it less mobile, but also should remain with the same attack angle and ammo advantages.

Focus on indigenous projects instead of dreaming !

It's exactly the other way around! We must stop dream about unrealistic indigenous projects and focus on what is actually possible, while getting the rest from external sources, either via JV's / co-developments, or simple procurements, if not possible otherwise.
Indias main advantage is access to the defence markets and a huge variety of possible sources. Limiting ourselfs to indigenous techs makes us only weaker, costs more and takes longer. That's why the best way is the mid path, low end LCA with a jointly developed FGFA at the hi end. If necessary a foreing MMRCA in between.
Indigenous Saras at the low end, jointly developed MTA at the hi end, if necessary a foreing C130 in between...

11> Brahmos M- Qualification on LCA, Mig29k/upg, M2K mki and jaguar.

12> Tejas LCA Mk2 FOC- by mid 2015

13> Indi AESA for LCA Mk2

Quiet interesting stuff, but Brahmos M on these aircrafts is hardly possible, be it weight or size limitations. LCA for example can't carry such large payloads at the centerline, be it because length or width limitations. The Jag and the M2K will be even less useful, as they also have limited time left in IAF. The Mig at least can carry it on it's inner wingstations, but would need to carry 2 of them (or 1 with a balance fuel tank on the other side) and if it could take off from a carrier with such a load is more than unlikely. The only real applications for Brahmos M will remain the MKI, FGFA (externally) and possibly Rafale, but non of this will be possible in the next 2-3 years.

How do you expect FOC of MK2 by 2015, when the first prototypes might only come out by then? And if you want indigenous AESA too, you might want to wait even longer.

 

[Abingdonboy]

5 Squads of PAKFA

What is the point in going for the downgraded version of the FGFA? It's like when the IAF bought 1 SQD of Su-30MKs whilst the MKI was underdevelopment, they returned them and went for the IAF-specific MKI.

Focus on indigenous projects instead of dreaming

Not dreaming, all such things (that I have said) are very much within the realms off possibility and likely by 2020.



Special Operations Command (SOC)

Indian SOC should be operational within 5 years (work starting within the next 24 months), will consist of:


-Indian Navy MARCOs
-Indian Army PARA(SF)
-Indian Air Force Garuds


Will NOT (nor should it) include
-Ghataks
-NSG (SAG or SRG)

All 3 SOFs will pool their respective Spec Ops resources, the SOC will have its own dedicated budget and will be headed by an IA SF general. With this the Indian Spec Ops forces would be seeing a quantum jump in training and modernisation efforts as well as maturing into truly a strategic assets thanks to this new command and control structure.


Above is NOT speculation but fact, now I'll get onto the wish list part:


SOC's SOAR (Special Operations Aviation Regiment)

NOTE- the IA already operates 2 Spec Ops SQDs (flying ALHs) in Kashmir supporting SFs and Ghataks in rapid insertion/extraction. The IN also operates dedicated Spec Ops Sea Kings for the MARCOs. It is unclear whether such helos would be absorbed by the SOC but one can assume so for the IA's SQDs at least.


Indian SOC SOAR by 2020-2 (my realistic fantasy):

1 SQD of Rudras (around 20 birds)

1 SQD of ALH Mk.4 with the Rudra's full CMDS and sensor suite:

IA and IAF already have orders for such birds incidentally along with the IN (theres are unlikely to have the CMDS however).

For CSAR missions (an area that is very much neglected in Indian Mil) primarily of the Garuds, 10-15 HH-60G:

I could be foolish and list CH-47s and or Mi-17V5s but the ALHs (armed and unarmed) are a very good place to start and such assets dedicated for SOFs alone is quite a step foreword for the Indian Mil/Spec Ops community. From there many more things are possible but this would be a pleasant beginning.

 

[sancho]

IA and IAF already have orders for such birds incidentally along with the IN (theres are unlikely to have the CMDS however).

For CSAR missions (an area that is very much neglected in Indian Mil) primarily of the Garuds, 10-15 HH-60G:

We have seen videos of members from Bangalore here, that have shown naval Dhruv MK4s with the CMDS and the latest EW suit, but since they had no paintings and markings of the forces, we couldn't make out of they are for IN or ICG.

The Black Hawks would have too less range especially in a country like India and refuelling them, would require additional tankers, that can refuel at such low speeds. The V22 on the other side, offers far more range, speed and could be refuelled by the IL 78 tankers too.

 

[ANPP]

my realistik shopping list for indian armed forces

ARMY

all the jawans wil get latest tevor-21 bullpup rifles with night vision as primarry wepon and beretta 9mm as side arm & one barret 50 cal + 2 latest machine guns with same ammo as ther tevror 21 per 10 men squad

at least 500 ceaser 155 X 52 cal arty guns

at least 1200 latest T90 MS tanks + 200 T90 chasis based panister anty aircraft &anty missile systems + 400 TATA made krystal (tracked version) IFVs with Spike ER ATGMs

at least 60 (for army) & 40 (for air force) apaches & LCHs in 1:3 ratio

NAVY

at least 20 dolphin calss (with AIP) subs

at least 10 kokotta 2 calss destroyers & 30 anty sub and air defnce stealth frigates

at least 10 MRISTRAL calss LPDs

at least 2 more IAC-2 calss ACs(with rafale M X36 & K31 helix "AESA" X 6 + KA-52K X 10 each )

at least 40 P8I with built in AWACs

AIR FORCE

at least

8 squads of FGFA

5 Squads of PAKFA

6 Squads of F/A-18 E-F super hornet

12 squads of LCA MK2 with GE414 engines and AESA radar and ASEA based EW suite (soemthing like spectra)

at least 24 more DRDO type + 12 PHALCON type AWACS +30 AESA based AEROSTAT radars


apart form all that at leased 5 batteries of S-400 and 12 more batteries of Barak-LR & MR SAMS each with at least 14 more latest green pine radars

Bhai, itne pause layega khan se.

My preferwancel list will be like this....
1- cancel rafel deal, induct total 60 lcamk1. And 20 more super mki. Thus saving top₹₹₹
2- cancel all fighter upgradation programme. Reduces Javelin purchase.
3. Now, will change armies air defence system completly. Induct light vehicals(Mahindra axe, tata's light specialist vehical)
4- cancel rifle deal, if drdo gun is good. Purchase new howitzers and new ships, fast track finsas and ficv programme.
5- More fund for new mountain strike formation.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Bhai, itne pause layega khan se.

My preferwancel list will be like this....
1- cancel rafel deal, induct total 60 lcamk1. And 20 more super mki. Thus saving top₹₹₹
2- cancel all fighter upgradation programme. Reduces Javelin purchase.
3. Now, will change armies air defence system completly. Induct light vehicals(Mahindra axe, tata's light specialist vehical)
4- cancel rifle deal, if drdo gun is good. Purchase new howitzers and new ships, fast track finsas and ficv programme.
5- More fund for new mountain strike formation.

put all the cases corruption against ghandi, pawar & karunanidhi family (even if you forget the money of other political famlies & beurocrats) and give the immunity in return of there black money and property stached in swiss banks problem solved