Young officers cheer General V K Singh while seniors give guarded response

[KS]

The only good thing (in my view) that has come out of this issue is that it shows that there are at the very least, a few people who cannot be bought. I'm pretty certain that a bribe of governorship or an ambassadorial posting to some quiet European country would have been offered (even if only informally). Speaks volumes of Gen.Singh's character that he stood his ground risking both a nasty vilification campaign as well as the possibility of having his tenure cut short with no real upsides (except personal redemption) even if he wins.

You bet...They thought they could pull off a JJ Singh with this VK Singh ! The only problem is that this Gen did not put up a price tag on Honor & Pride.

Menon suggested that the government would come out with a statement making it amply clear that age was not the issue and that it wanted General Singh for other services preferably in the civilian set-up.

Hitting the General below the belt : Inside Story

 

[HZR2011]

One thing is clear, Corrupt Congress has some hidden agenda to get the chief out of army...

 

[KS]

One thing is clear, Corrupt Congress has some hidden agenda to get the chief out of army...

This incumbent Congress Govt is a bane on India.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Obviously, the senior generals are waiting for their turn, so they want him out by hook or by crook...

Not even remotely the issue. It is a generational/experience difference, the senior officers have served for some time in the forces and have crafted a strong apolitical view of the military-civil divide. This is just the exuberance and inexperience of the younger officers being displayed. I'm sure in a few years these officers will harbour different views.

And tbh this isn't a "honour" or "integrity" issue but an issue of pride on behalf of VK Singh. There are set procedures in all govt agencies for changing any discrepancies in DoB, usually 1-2 years, as such he has had ample time to correct the failure and has taken the benefits the mistake has caused (in terms of promotions) in the past. I mirror the senior officers view, the army answers to the civil establishment, any good soldier knows it is not there's to question why- they must follow all orders. Poor precedent.


However this is a reflection on the animosity being felt within IA towards MoD especially when it seems the IAF/IN don't have to compete with the same issues.

 

[punit]

its a price paid by the general when he refused to tarnish the image of Anna Hazare and hence refused the instrctions of Gandu oops gandhi family.

 

[Bang Galore]

And tbh this isn't a "honour" or "integrity" issue but an issue of pride on behalf of VK Singh. There are set procedures in all govt agencies for changing any discrepancies in DoB, usually 1-2 years, as such he has had ample time to correct the failure and has taken the benefits the mistake has caused (in terms of promotions) in the past.

This argument has unfortunately gained currency when it is completely irrelevant to the issue. The 2 year rule applies only if a change in DoB is applied for not for a correction of records as is the case here. The AG Branch has always held that V.K. Singh's YoB is 1951 which is supported by all available records.Just because the MS branch records it differently does not mean that they have a leg to perch their case on.

The other idea is that he has somehow benefitted from promotions because of this altered DoB existing. I fail to understand how exactly, all promotions would have been awarded on the duration of service (the ground for deciding seniority) rather than who was born when. Regardless of what V.K. Singh's date of birth was assumed to be, his promotions would not have been based on that

 

[KS]

However this is a reflection on the animosity being felt within IA towards MoD especially when it seems the IAF/IN don't have to compete with the same issues.

I'm sorry..but I guess you dont know the Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat saga and how he was un-ceremoniously booted out as the Chief of Navy during George Fernandes era..

No, this is not one man's ego at work...its rather one man exercising his constitutional right to correct what he deems unfair and actually is unfair. There is a myth that military is subordinate to civilian setup in India and thus they should blindly obey whatever the Babu/Neta nexus in MoD tell them to do. Sorry it does not work that way. Even in military there are rules in which you are NOT required to obey a command of the superior if that is wrong and is anti-national. This (treating of Army chiefs as head chowkidaars, especially by the babus/netas in MoD) has gone for too long and some one had to stand up to that especially since it had the potential to demoralize the rank and file of the Army seeing their Chief being treated as a second rater. I'm glad and proudGen V.K.Singh did that.

 

[KS]

 

[KS]

Kunal Verma, BRF:


All this talk of resigning is a whole lot of rubbish. VKS is like the bone in the Govt's throat that it can neither dispel nor swallow.

Two days ago I posted on BR my comment on what I call 'Moses List'. Moses parted the sea, and cleared the way for his followers. Since 2006 the same thing began happening in the highest echelons of the Indian Army when the 'look down' policy was brought into play. I name the officers concerned yet again - Brigadier Padam Budhwar, Major Generals Ravi Arora, Shujan Chatterjee and AK Singh. In our pyramidical structure people get superseded and side lined, but in these four cases these four officers were 'boarded out' in a motivated manner. Being a subjective issue, it can always be argued against, but the one common factor in the entire game was that the 'line of succession' was being spelt out and adhered to. VKS was the fifth name on the list, and since he couldn't be eliminated, his tenure had to be truncated.

Once this sort of nonsense and politics was allowed to start within the Army, it was a matter of time before the bureaucrats got their foot in and what is happening now is a direct result of that.

Comments against the successor are also completely out of place. No one becomes an Army Commander in the Indian Army without having something going for him. The issue here is that those who are pointing out that the 'look down policy' is suicidal for the army in the long run probably have nothing personal against the person at the receiving end - the problem is more to do with the people who have manipulated the entire system.

I personally feel that VKS, by stating that it is a personal issue which concerns only him, has actually put his head on the line. In a way he is insulating the army from the backlash which will surely come from the holy trinity - a element within the army, the bureaucrats and the politician. He's fired a shot into the beehive and now they are gunning for him every which way. Just think about it, if he had one hair out of place, by now they would have hung him from the yardarm!

Lastly, how come no one is saying that the Defence Secretary, The AG, the Law Minister, the Defence Minister et all should resign despite every Tom, Dick and Harry saying that things should never have come this far! One Lt General was going on on NDTV (I think) about how VKS's action had affected the morale of the Indian Army. You bet it has - most officers I know feel that finally someone is standing up and fighting, and finally there's some Calcium in the backbone!

 

[livingdead]

Govt is corrupt bla bla, and X is right. Govt is acting against army chief because of Y conspiracy.
Heard all these stories in balngladesh forum, not interested really.

It is a personal issue of army chief, he decided to go to court, we should respect that decision and wait for court's verdict than pass judgements and question motives of either side.
It is immaterial, and will have no bearing on court's decision.

 

[KS]

Govt is corrupt bla bla, and X is right. Govt is acting against army chief because of Y conspiracy.
Heard all these stories in balngladesh forum, not interested really.

It is a personal issue of army chief, he decided to go to court, we should respect that decision and wait for court's verdict than pass judgements and question motives of either side.
It is immaterial, and will have no bearing on court's decision.

There is some truth in the allegations that he is being targeted for not toeing the 'official' line on various contracts,policies and going hard on the land scams that have rocked the Army.

Ofcourse there will be a usual bit of media masala but what they say cannot be entirely discounted. And especially a statement of that effect coming from a former Admiral who himself was a victim of the unholy babudom gives an insight into the extent of the rot in the system.

 

[venu309]

"Dont underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"....this is what we are for voting the congress into office time & again...

 

[Bang Galore]

There is some truth in the allegations that he is being targeted for not toeing the 'official' line on various contracts,policies and going hard on the land scams that have rocked the Army.

Ofcourse there will be a usual bit of media masala but what they say cannot be entirely discounted. And especially a statement of that effect coming from a former Admiral who himself was a victim of the unholy babudom gives an insight into the extent of the rot in the system.

Difficult to buy that argument. This issue has been tossed about in the army for years before it went to civilians. Looking for conspiracies as the only explanation in the absence of any supporting evidence is unhealthy. As for Adm. Bhagwat's statement, one has to take it with a pinch of salt. He is out of the system for nearly 12 years now, there is very little knowledge that he would have about what is going on now. in any case, we are talking about St.Antony. Nobody, not even the oppn believes that he is in any way corrupt or that he wants a file pushed because of some extraneous considerations. the argument against Antony is that he is so concerned about his image that he isn't signing deals quickly. That position does not harmonise with this fresh conspiracy that he is a party to some sort of bribery & therefore wants V.K.Singh out.

 

[KS]

India of My Dreams: The ‘age row’ – Coup against the Army Chief



Dust kicked up in the media has the Army Chief’s date of birth at its core even though it is not the real issue. Sadly, the Government authorities including ministers have sought to portray it as if Gen VK Singh were greedy to hang on to his chair longer by seeking a ‘change’ in his date of birth. If it was so, why should the Government try to bargain with him by dangling ‘compensatory package’ in the form of post retirement sinecures like appointing him ambassador or governor ‘if he agreed’ to retire in accordance with the wrong date of birth? These offers reported widely in the media have not been denied by the Government until now – a live fact that lends credence to the existence of a more sinister intrigue squirming beneath the innocuous looking ‘date of birth ruckus.’

Gen VK Singh has a proud record of unimpeachable credentials as an officer and a gentleman. Even his enemies, if there were any this side of the borders, would find it hard to question his integrity. For a man who has served the country with selfless devotion, any suggestion of greed guiding his petition is not only unfair to the country’s Army Chief – proud symbol of nation’s military might, but also utterly bad for the country and its military where officers lead by personal example. And Gen VK Singh’s personal example has been undoubtedly the most outstanding in all respects all through his long service career. If the general was greedy, he would grab the sinecures offered and oblige the authorities but his principles do not allow him to give up unless the wrong is set right – no matter how lucrative the offer in lieu.

The argument of ‘personal greed’ pushing for a ‘change in the date of birth’ also gets demolished by the fact that Gen VK Singh was fully qualified to be where he is today because neither of these dates would come in the way of his promotion to general’s rank. The ‘change’, if ever it was required, was settled long ago before his admission to the National Defence Academy when the UPSC had sought clarification about the variation in the date birth given in his UPSC application form (10 May 1950) and the date given in his School leaving Certificate (10 May 1951). Having fully satisfied itself from his clarification then, the UPSC had accepted the date given in his School Certificate as the correct date of birth and closed the matter. Everybody knows that legally and conventionally the School Leaving Certificate is the accepted authority for date of birth in all government departments. In the instant case it has also been reinforced by his ‘Birth Certificate’ issued by a Military Hospital. Where is the scope for doubt? Further, at the Indian Military Academy (IMA) when merit list of the passing out course is drawn, dates of birth of each gentleman cadet (GC) is scrutinised while fixing the seniority and allotting Service number to the newly commissioned officers. They are then issued with their Service Identity Card that carries the officer’s date of birth. The IMA authorities too recorded 10 May 1951 as VK Singh’s date of birth in all his documents, which continued without any shade of ambiguity from any quarter until he was seen as a possible contender for the post of Chief of the Army Staff (COAS). Had there been even an iota of ambiguity in his date of birth, he would not have been granted Commission.

Now, as the storm gathers more dust it raises many intriguing questions. When did the second date of birth first appear in the MS Branch records? How did a wrong date of birth erased by the UPSC long ago creep in surreptitiously in the Officer’s service documents at the MS Branch so many years later? Why was no question raised on his annual confidential reports (ACRs) which carry date of birth and are submitted to the MS Branch every year? Why also were no questions raised on other periodical submission of service documents, reports and returns received from the officer’s Unit/Headquarters showing the same date of birth that came to be challenged by the MS Branch years later? Why was the confirmation given by the Adjutant General’s (AG’s) Branch not accepted by the MS Branch even though it is the AG’s Branch that is the official custodian of personal records of officers of the Indian Army? Why did the Ministry of Defence retract its initial decision to order an investigation in the matter? If the General’s contention is wrong, why are the authorities trying to placate and ‘rehabilitate him honourably’?

It is well known in the Services that senior officers of the rank of major generals and above routinely weigh their inter-se probability of rising to higher positions and appointments in the coming years. In a milieu involving course mates and known equals in the Service, it is easy to calculate as to who is in the run for the top rung and who will miss out by superannuating before the incumbent Army Chief retires. Being Chief of an Army which is world’s third largest is naturally a very prestigious and enviable distinction for an Army officer. Besides the lustrous embellishments of the high appointment, the position also has unique authority and an assurance of due prominence in the annals of India’s military history. Obviously, the position of the COAS is lucrative enough to make many in the queue aspire for the high position. However, if there be an unscrupulous person in this queue, the systemic process can be manoeuvred and manipulated especially in times when some very senior army officers including an MS have been recently court-martialled for unbecoming conduct. It is therefore relevant to ask whose interests are served most if Gen VK Singh’s date of birth is altered from 10 May 1951 to 10 May 1950? And who misses his chance to be considered for the top job if his genuine date (10 May 1951) is accepted as actual? The answer to these simple questions will provide you the thread that leads you through the weave to the coterie that conspired and connived to vitiate and circumvent service records of an unsuspecting soldier like VK Singh.

It is the General’s magnanimity that he is simply asking for removal of the ‘mischief’ in his record and not raking up the issue to unravel its cause. An enquiry into the matter might embarrass his predecessors and the Government. Therefore, Gen VK Singh’s is not a case of ‘change of date of birth’ as is being projected in the media. It is becoming more obvious that the entire case is actually a conspiracy that was hatched at the Army Headquarters (MS Branch) to pave the way for some ‘favourite’ who would otherwise have to retire as a lieutenant general unless something is done to force VK Singh out of office in a manner that would appear normal retirement on a date desired by the ‘coterie’. Hence the mischief and fudging of his service records at the MS Branch (Army Headquarters) – and lo, even the Government appears to be conniving in the plot after initial wavering – the Law Ministry upholds one date, the Attorney General upholds another!

Sadly, these are dirty times marked by endless high profile scams in the Government. Even the Army’s image stands smeared by some of its own generals who drifted and succumbed to allurements in a couple of cases of unbecoming conduct. At the time of assuming the office of the Chief of the Army Staff, Gen VK Singh had declared that he would clean up and improve the ‘inner health’ of the Army. True to his word, he has acted against the malaise swiftly and sternly without fear or favour. This healthy trend to restore inner efficiency and professionalism of the Army must continue.

The need of the hour is honest and upright commanders at the top because officers given to manipulation and intrigue for self-advancement can wreak havoc for the country if assigned sensitive offices of high authority in the Armed Forces. It is desirable that absolute and fairness and transparency is observed by the Government in tackling issues concerning military leadership and morale of the Forces. Prudence suggests that truth and justice alone must be allowed to prevail in the Armed Forces, even if such recourse appears unpleasant and bitter for the time being. The on-going ‘date of birth row’, as it has come to be known, must be quickly resolved in a transparent and judicious manner by accepting the General’s actual date of birth as actual and he must continue to serve his full tenure with full dignity and honour that is due to him.

 

[KS]

Difficult to buy that argument. This issue has been tossed about in the army for years before it went to civilians. Looking for conspiracies as the only explanation in the absence of any supporting evidence is unhealthy. As for Adm. Bhagwat's statement, one has to take it with a pinch of salt. He is out of the system for nearly 12 years now, there is very little knowledge that he would have about what is going on now. in any case, we are talking about St.Antony. Nobody, not even the oppn believes that he is in any way corrupt or that he wants a file pushed because of some extraneous considerations. the argument against Antony is that he is so concerned about his image that he isn't signing deals quickly. That position does not harmonise with this fresh conspiracy that he is a party to some sort of bribery & therefore wants V.K.Singh out.

Adm VB might have been out of the system for 12 years now, but then as a victim of the system himself he definitely is in a position to comment on the rot than anybody else. And just because he is formally out of the system doesn't mean he will not have contacts inside anymore.

Also regardless of 'saint' Anthony, it is also the babus who dominate the MoD who may be the real pushers behind this. Let us not kid ourselves..the IAS officials rank along side the politicians in corruption.

p.s.: St. Anthony may not be so much of a saint after having 3 of his wife's paintings forced upon AI for Rs.25 crore.