Yom Kippur War, Egypts Revenge, Israel's War 1973

[sadiqams]

Egypt went to war not for revenge butr to bring Isreal to the negotiating table. The Arabs would have won but for the Americans intervening in the heat of battle with re supply of equipment and also their own forces under the guise of the star of david. Aircraft were disguised as Isreali to decieve the world

 

[Canaan]

Egypt never planned to thrust deep into Sinai or Israel, it was merely a move that would facilitate negotiations at a later time where the Egyptians could regain the lost territory through political negotiations. The Syrians suffered greatly due to their lack of knowledge about Egypt wanting to stop its advancement when they crossed the Sinai canal and stay below the protective SAM umbrella and behind an ATGM defense line on the eastern bank of the canal. All the way Syrians thought they would thrust deep into Israel, and when the Egyptians stopped, the Israelis focused all their firepower against Syria.

 

[sadiqams]

Yes I agree with your analysis.

 

[Kasrkin]

What I meant by my statement was , Egyptians encroached few miles inside the Israeli occupied territory and then took to war of attrition . Whatever Israelis threw at them , they stayed put on their ground and caused heavy losses in both men and material on Israelis .

Doesnt the PA wants to carry the war inside Indian territory to inflict damage in both men and material to IA on its soil . Something they did in 1971 at Fazilka sub-sector ??

Thank you for your point. The Egyptians however didn't hold all the ground, they were cornered and surrounded, they were trapped. Not only did they technically loose the ground they supposedly encroached, but also all the men they sent to take it. The tactic is logically sound, if implemented properly. It was however not implemented properly, and even if it was the Israelis found a way around it because of more fundamental reasons such as a lack of ambitiousness and flexibility in the Egyptian doctrine. Egyptians fought well no doubt, Israelis fought better. The result is in front of us.

In relation to a Pakistani-India conflict, then I can assure you things are very different. Pakistani formations are designed to fight a much more flexible war, plus unlike Israel, India is very big country so no one in their right mind would suggest that the Pakistanis should aim the destroy the whole thing like the Arabs were obviously committed to do in the context of Israel.

I hope that addressed your point.

 

[gubgoobgub]

the video uploaded in this thread is a complete joke.
it is not a documentary at all. It is a heavily doctored mix of THREE different documentaries. One American documentary, and two British. Notice the accent of the narrator changes throughout.
The person who made this video has also added his own opinion in text, and even manipulated the timeline.
For example, we all know that after being suprised, outnumbered, outgunned, and overwhelmed in the first few days, the Israelis successfully counterattacked, and ended this war with the upper hand.
This video however, claims that the Egyptians 'were ready' for the Israeli counter attack, and then goes back in time, and presents more footage of the initial egyptian suprise attack, but from a different documentary.

It is both pathetic, and amusing.

Anyway, the reason I have posted here is to find out if anybody knows where I can find the original American documentary. I have already seen the two British ones, but I do not know the American one.

 

[aziqbal]

Yes, I think that our Egyptian friends lost fair and square. It would be unfair to excuse that fact through the presence of American support to Israel. After all we were clearly left hanging by our ‘ally’ in 1965 and still fought the numerically superior enemy to a standstill. The Russians too were deeply supporting the Arabs, not just militarily but diplomatically as well (calling for all Arab states to attack Israel). The Soviets were not only shipping excessive equipment to the Arabs during the wars, they also threatened to intervene militarily on both occasions. As you can see, the Russians were keen to be seen as the ‘friends of the Arabs’, but despite this the Egyptians were in so much trouble that they have no choice but to turn to America in hopes of saving their army and whatever was left of their pride. From then on Egypt went into the American orbit and all the Soviet investment was a waste, because Egypt couldn’t stand up for itself militarily…

this is simply not true

what was Egyptian objective? it was to attack israel force terms and get back Sinai, who control ALL of the Sinai today? Egypt does and it does because Israel knew that making peace with Egypt is the only way Israel can survive, which other country has got land back from Israel>none

Israeli losses were not sustainable they could not take casulaties that Egypt was handing them, they lost so many men and tanks that a whole new tank programme was launched, the Merkeva project

only Egypt did, the reason is simple, Egypt was and is the most powerful arab nation, the only nation that is able to threaten and defeat Israel in open combat, there is a reason why Camp David accord handed back Sinai, cus Egypt said either we get Sinai or we go to war again, Israel cant afford wars with Egypt hence the accord was signed, Israeli goverment even said at the time, Israeli survival will only remain if we are at peace with Egypt

1973 was a clear victory for Egypt because its objective was met, it may have been 8 years after the war but it was still met

 

[Deepak123]

this is simply not true

what was Egyptian objective? it was to attack israel force terms and get back Sinai, who control ALL of the Sinai today? Egypt does and it does because Israel knew that making peace with Egypt is the only way Israel can survive, which other country has got land back from Israel>none

Israeli losses were not sustainable they could not take casulaties that Egypt was handing them, they lost so many men and tanks that a whole new tank programme was launched, the Merkeva project

only Egypt did, the reason is simple, Egypt was and is the most powerful arab nation, the only nation that is able to threaten and defeat Israel in open combat, there is a reason why Camp David accord handed back Sinai, cus Egypt said either we get Sinai or we go to war again, Israel cant afford wars with Egypt hence the accord was signed, Israeli goverment even said at the time, Israeli survival will only remain if we are at peace with Egypt

1973 was a clear victory for Egypt because its objective was met, it may have been 8 years after the war but it was still met

Well, Yom Kippur war was a stalemate and Egyptian force could not regain Sinai Peninsula. Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt in lieu of Recognition of Israel for which Anwar-Al Sadat was assassinated by extremist.

 

[The SC]

Are you saying there were no 'immense help' from the USSR to the Arabs?

ISRAEL: The US, USSR and the Yom Kippur War | Stanford | World Association of International Studies

Yes that is what I would have meant.
You are comparing weapons purchased by the Arabs before the war with the massive free aid received by Israel after its 6 hour total defeat !!!

 

[The SC]

the video uploaded in this thread is a complete joke.
it is not a documentary at all. It is a heavily doctored mix of THREE different documentaries. One American documentary, and two British. Notice the accent of the narrator changes throughout.
The person who made this video has also added his own opinion in text, and even manipulated the timeline.
For example, we all know that after being suprised, outnumbered, outgunned, and overwhelmed in the first few days, the Israelis successfully counterattacked, and ended this war with the upper hand.
This video however, claims that the Egyptians 'were ready' for the Israeli counter attack, and then goes back in time, and presents more footage of the initial egyptian suprise attack, but from a different documentary.

It is both pathetic, and amusing.

Anyway, the reason I have posted here is to find out if anybody knows where I can find the original American documentary. I have already seen the two British ones, but I do not know the American one.

When you'll find the American one, it will show you the American nukes Israel received along with the massive aid and even American soldiers, mostly pilots with fake Israeli identities. The Arabs called the Ramadan war of 1973 the little spark so nothing of a fire yet. The first aim was to shatter the Israeli army's myth of invincibility, that was a success since most of the Israeli air power was destroyed in the 2 first days of the war , but under the menace of the US to intervene itself if the Arabs didn't stop and the counter menace by Russia to send it troops to side with the Arabs which could have started WW3, the Arabs with some behind doors negotiations between the 2 superpowers and to whom it may concern from the rest of the world's community had no other choice but to let the Zionist regime save face.
This is the truth my friend, do your thorough research and compare with what the media and the gullible people say.
When you see Yom Kipour war it indicates it is an Israeli video or media, try to search instead for the ramadan war or the 1973 war Egypt against Israel.

 

[The SC]

No, It's not israelis who operated them, there were hundereds of volunteers and pilots mainly american jews and south Africans joined the IDF during the War, Israel try to hide this fact, however, there are strong evidences of this statement, there are records for pilots speaking English not hebrew during air battles.
This is not strange, this happened nearly in every war even in '48, Plz, read about Charles Winters..

BBC NEWS | Americas | Bush pardons Israel bomber seller​

and Let's check what the Egyptian chief of military intelligence "Fuad Nassar" said about that:

(They ordered the IAF not to approach the canal to avoid Egyptian SAMs and ground air defenses, however, they destroyed a SAM battalion near the Suez Canal, we didn't know how they did it, and shortly after that they destroyed another one.

Sadat called me and asked me how this happened, I replied "I don't know, we will study the situation, and we will know soon". There was a genius scientist in the military intelligence, he left studying medicine, and joined us in the military researches unit in the military intelligence, he was very genius and he was interested in exploring everything new in the military field, he examined the destroyed sites accurately and then told me that the US army invented a new sort of missiles which could be deployed in aircrafts and launched about 30 KM from its target, this missile inversely tracks radar waves, and destroys completely its target. Then we knew that these missiles used by Israel, haven't yet used by US army.

I sent these researches and information to President Sadat, then he said his famous statement "I can fight Israel, but I can't fight US".

After the war a senior American commander who planned operation Nickel grass visited Egypt after in order to give a lecture in Nasser academy, I was still chief of military intelligence, I said to him:
"I will attend your lecture tomorrow; I will ask you three questions, so prepare your answers until tomorrow...
1- Supplying enemy during the battle is considered participating in the war? We have captured Israeli tanks which didn't exceed 200 KM; these were tanks you provided through operation Nickel grass.
2- Our intelligence knew that your airlift planes came through Libyan costs; I sent this information to President Sadat, Mubarak immediately ordered EAF to intercept those USAF aircrafts without engaging with them, but as our aircrafts came close to your airlift, you downed one.
3- Who ordered to use these missiles which destroyed our SAMs and radars along the canal? US army hasn't even used them before, who gave permission to use them against Egyptians?"

He replied "Please, don't attend the lecture tomorrow, I will coordinate with US administration, I promise to send you answers for your questions".

After nearly a month he sent me a letter, and the answers were as follows:
1- Supplying the enemy in the battlefield is not considered as a direct participation in the war.
2- As for this downed aircraft, we were defending our selves.
3- For those missiles, there are Jewish American officers were volunteers for Israel and supplied them with latest weapons.

But he didn't tell me who gave permission to use these weapons; he just told me that they were volunteers. I sent this information to President Sadat, when he read the letter he said "This letter is the best card I have in the incoming negotiations".)

there are Jewish American officers were volunteers for Israel and supplied them with latest weapons.

Can anyone believe this statement.

 

[King Solomon]

Some tactical victory was achieved by Egypt. But in the end, it was a clear Israeli victory. Israel was about to launch an attack on Cairo and already captured parts of Egyptian mainland when the ceasefire was declared.

 

[The SC]

Some tactical victory was achieved by Egypt. But in the end, it was a clear Israeli victory. Israel was about to launch an attack on Cairo and already captured parts of Egyptian mainland when the ceasefire was declared.

You forgot the American nukes Israel received along with the massive aid and even American soldiers, mostly pilots with fake Israeli identities. The Arabs called the Ramadan war of 1973 the little spark so nothing of a fire yet. The first aim was to shatter the Israeli army's myth of invincibility, that was a success since most of the Israeli air power was destroyed in the 2 first days of the war , but under the menace of the US to intervene itself if the Arabs didn't stop and the counter menace by Russia to send it troops to side with the Arabs which could have started WW3, the Arabs with some behind doors negotiations between the 2 superpowers and to whom it may concern from the rest of the world's community had no other choice but to let the Zionist regime save face.
This is the truth my friend, do your thorough research and compare with what the media and the gullible people say.
Can you really believe that an Israeli brigade could invade Egypt.

 

[Peregrine]

Egyptians got what they wanted......This is what matters.

 

[King Solomon]

You forgot the American nukes Israel received along with the massive aid and even American soldiers, mostly pilots with fake Israeli identities. The Arabs called the Ramadan war of 1973 the little spark so nothing of a fire yet. The first aim was to shatter the Israeli army's myth of invincibility, that was a success since most of the Israeli air power was destroyed in the 2 first days of the war , but under the menace of the US to intervene itself if the Arabs didn't stop and the counter menace by Russia to send it troops to side with the Arabs which could have started WW3, the Arabs with some behind doors negotiations between the 2 superpowers and to whom it may concern from the rest of the world's community had no other choice but to let the Zionist regime save face.
This is the truth my friend, do your thorough research and compare with what the media and the gullible people say.
Can you really believe that an Israeli brigade could invade Egypt.

Yes, that is why I said some tactical victory was achieved. Destroying the Barlev line was not any child's play, it was the world's strongest defence. And tghe method the egyptians used, high speed water pump, was absolutely brilliant.

Yes, Henry Kissinger's last "air train" which saved Israel. I know that, but it doesnt change the fact that it was a military victory for Israel. Egypt failed to establish such diplomatic relations with USSR as Israel did with US.

But in the end, Egypt achieved a political victory by gaining Sinai back. You cannot negotiate from a position of weakness. Israel recognised Egypt's potential, so it conceded Sinai. If it wished it could hold on to Sinai, but it conceded it in return for long term peace.

 

[Tshering22]

If one sees the documentary, one sees that like the Americans, Israelis don't believe in ceremonialism that we Asians do. We have our grand parades, and border ceremonies to display all our equipment. But when it comes to a conflict scenario, we desist and the politicians take the frontline with negotiations and of course, money changing hands.

US and Israel OTOH keep it quiet in terms of ceremonies and when the time comes, prove their weapons in actual conflict rather than brandishing.

This is especially applicable for our stupid government but largely Asians are very ceremonial. It slows down our potential efficiency.