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Yatsenyuk Rewrites History: ‘USSR Invaded Germany’

not all friction will end in war. Plus the history we see in most western books is biased. The USSR was totally unprepared for a German war and did not expect it. Stalin's later non trusting nature was attributed to this incident of betrayal.
I am hardly western but from what I read Stalin's guys were checking the prices of mutton because a price drop would indicate many sheep slaughtered for wool to satisfy Third Reich need for winter coats. Also, Europe had the coldest winter in 140 years when the Nazis attacked. USSR seemed to got a few lucky breaks -- if Army Group South did not move to Ukraine but headed straight for Moscow, it would have been very difficult for Stalin to hang on. The delay gave Stalin the time he needed to bring troops from the East.

I'm not saying I agree with the crazy Ukrainian guy. This is just a neutral historical fact for me.
 
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Cam down fictional German citizen who's really a paid troll.Reality upon you:

Stalin's Secret WarPlans: Why Hitler Invaded the Soviet Union. RichardTedor.




Friction,miction...Soviet armies were amassing for an invasion of Europe,"Ze Germans" were quicker.Unfortunately only half of Europe was saved in the end,half had to live with those rapists for 45 years.
get this book i know it will be complicated with large words and not a lot of pictures . i know that facts are something you do not believe in but history sadly is about facts. Try and read it and if you do not get something do not be ashamed to ask
World War II For Dummies
Keith D. Dickson
 

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get this book i know it will be complicated with large words and not a lot of pictures . i know that facts are something you do not believe in but history sadly is about facts. Try and read it and if you do not get something do not be ashamed to ask


Lol...satire....Bet you' i've forgot all the history you've ever read in your life.That's why debating with self entitled scholars is a waste of time.
 
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The German attack was self defence,The Russians would have invaded anyway by 1943.He's partially right,the USSR had it coming.
Actually, not even 1943, but early July 1941.

The reason why Hitler's attack on the soviet union failed was because it was planned and launched in haste.

Why was it launched in haste? Hitler wanted to beat Stalin to launching his own invasion first and in the process he compromised on winter clothes for his troops, proper tanks and military equipment adapted to Russian environment, and other necessary provisions simply because all of these preparations required time, time that he did not have due to the immense Soviet military build up taking place on his eastern borders and the imminent Soviet invasion which would take place at any given moment. It was a race against the clock.

I recommend this book as it gives an in depth detailed analysis of the Soviet military buildup and Stalin's plan of invading Nazi occupied Europe in a "war of liberation" and how the Germans discovered the Soviet threat and attacked first:

The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II: VIKTOR SUVOROV: 9781591148067: Amazon.com: Books
 
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Actually, not even 1943, but early July 1941.
conjecture and hearsay because what history is is the accumulation of facts. I am not disputing what may have happened but what did happen is different to what the Ukrainian prime minister stated.
 
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conjecture and hearsay because what history is is the accumulation of facts. I am not disputing what may have happened but what did happen is different to what the Ukrainian prime minister stated.
Of course, i'm not saying that what the Ukrainian prime minister stated is historical truth.

But facts remain, Stalin did plan to invade Europe and Hitler preempted his military buildup by launching his own invasion.

not all friction will end in war. Plus the history we see in most western books is biased. The USSR was totally unprepared for a German war and did not expect it. Stalin's later non trusting nature was attributed to this incident of betrayal.
No, the USSR was in fact completely prepared for war. The Soviet military machine was the most powerful in the world.

Before Hitler invaded Poland, it was the Soviet Union which first implemented Blitzkrieg tactics in the battle of Khalkhin gol where they decimated the entire Japanese 6th army.

The Soviet Union had the best tanks in the world in 1939-1941 and even throughout the entire Second World War.

I am hardly western but from what I read Stalin's guys were checking the prices of mutton because a price drop would indicate many sheep slaughtered for wool to satisfy Third Reich need for winter coats. Also, Europe had the coldest winter in 140 years when the Nazis attacked. USSR seemed to got a few lucky breaks -- if Army Group South did not move to Ukraine but headed straight for Moscow, it would have been very difficult for Stalin to hang on. The delay gave Stalin the time he needed to bring troops from the East.

I'm not saying I agree with the crazy Ukrainian guy. This is just a neutral historical fact for me.
You are correct that winter of 1941-42 was coldest in Russian history in a long while, however the reason why Army Group South was directed toward Ukraine and the Caucasus was because that was were 85% of Stalin's oil was coming from. However Hitler's generals made the fatal mistake of attacking Moscow first and thus wasting men and resources in an attempt to achieve the impossible.

Had they instead struck south towards the Caucasus oil fields by 1943 latest Soviet industries and armies would have been deprived of their fuel.
 
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The Soviet Union had the best tanks in the world in 1939-1941 and even throughout the entire Second World War.
T-34 and KV-1 both were only a small part of the soviet tanks and the artillery and aircrafts were near obsolete. There was a greater build up in military might but that had always been ebbing and flowing if you study Russian history you will see that. The issue with historians studying only world war 2 is that they do not look at the over all policies of the region, Also the soviet army at the time was not even at a war footing and was scattered. When you look at the battles fought you will see that clearly. It is correct that Stalin was increasing his military might and that there was modernization but that was to be expected. This can turn into a large debate but if Russia had been anywhere near invasion they would not be short of so many supplies and trained personal.
 
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The German attack was self defence,The Russians would have invaded anyway by 1943.He's partially right,the USSR had it coming.
Trying to rewrite history here, are you?
Shows that there is no shortage of Nazi symptahisers in today's EU.
Heck they have even infested defence.pk now.
 
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T-34 and KV-1 both were only a small part of the soviet tanks and the artillery and aircrafts were near obsolete.
This is historically inconsistent.



There were more than 1,000 T-34's and more than 500 KV tanks deployed in the Western military districts of the Soviet Union by June, 1941. That's 1/3rd of the number of tanks the Germans were to invade the Soviet Union with. Sure, by Soviet standards 1,000 and 500 are a small number, but by Western standards these numbers are significantly big.

The T-34's and KV's were the only tanks of their class in the world. No other country had heavy and medium tanks of this class. The bulk of German tanks were Panzer I's, Panzer II's, both of which were inferior to the basic BT-7 Tank which the Soviet's had in the thousands, and the Panzer III's which was the latest addition to the German army were only in the hundreds and were inferior to the 1,000 T-34's and 500 KV's. Even the latest Panzer IV was inferior in armor and armament in comparison to the T-34.

Basically the entire German tank fleet was inferior to the Soviet Tank fleet in quality and quantity. Soviet artillery was also superior to the German artillery.

The Red Army displayed its readiness for modern warfare at Khalkhin gol when it decimated an entire Japanese army using Blitzkrieg tactics even before the term was coined.


There was a greater build up in military might but that had always been ebbing and flowing if you study Russian history you will see that. The issue with historians studying only world war 2 is that they do not look at the over all policies of the region, Also the soviet army at the time was not even at a war footing and was scattered. When you look at the battles fought you will see that clearly. It is correct that Stalin was increasing his military might and that there was modernization but that was to be expected. This can turn into a large debate but if Russia had been anywhere near invasion they would not be short of so many supplies and trained personal.
1. Not really because prior to 1939 there was no military mobilization in the Soviet Union (at least not of this scale) so the military buildup between 1939 and 1941 was unparalleled in Soviet history.

2. The book that i referred to (The Chief Culprit) written by a former Soviet Intelligence officer who has access to thousands of Soviet military documents, which even most historians don't have access to, does in fact cover all of the geopolitics of the region to provide clear context of the time.

3. Russia wasn't short of supplies, rather they positioned all of their armies and supply depots right up to the border with Nazi Germany this way when they launched their invasion of Europe their armies could easily be supplied in short notice rather than haul in supplies from within the Russian heartland which would take much longer.

The Germans did the same when they invaded Poland, France, and the Soviet Union, they positioned all of their supply depots and fuel right up to the border with the countries they intended to invade (and did invade).

From an offensive standpoint, this is a good thing, but from a defensive standpoint, this is a strategic mistake because if the enemy attacks first they can capture or destroy all of your supplies, which is exactly what the German did when they launched Barbarossa. Clearly the Soviets were intending on launching an invasion and not setting up defenses.

BTW, just thought this thread would be of interest to the following users:


Would appreciate your input:
@p(-)0ENiX @Developereo @al-Hasani
 

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The German attack was self defence,The Russians would have invaded anyway by 1943.He's partially right,the USSR had it coming.

Are you serious?! :blink:

Everyone knows what happened. Come on man. I know you don't agree with Russians on most count but that doesn't meant negating the history. Even the most loony Republican of USA agrees that they didn't fight WW2 alone.
 
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