Xi asks Party to support independent judiciary

[terranMarine]

why change things when it's not broken. China got where it is today is all thanks to the hard working people and the system. Screw Democracy.

 

[Echo_419]

The dual party will become an endless loophole, and people would waste all their energy for this never stop party rivalry.

Taiwan is just a prime example, and in the following years their economy is going to suck because of this childish dual party bullshit.

I didn't say dual party I mean Multi party but I am sure you guys will come up with your version of democracy
Something like 'democracy with Chinese characteristics'

 

[TaiShang]

I didn't say dual party I mean Multi party but I am sure you guys will come up with your version of democracy
Something like 'democracy with Chinese characteristics'

Definitely. We will not even call it "democracy."

 

[Echo_419]

Chinese government is empirical. To understand the merits of the clown show called multi (often duo) party system, it needs to look no further India. Indeed a working example.

China won't copy their or any others' systems.

And China won't export its system to them.

I have said it once & I will say it again
China can afford to be authoritarian becuz China is no where near as Diverse as India simple as that
If we try to implement your system here there will be civil war in no time & our democracy functions very well when you compare how educated our people are

Definitely. We will not even call it "democracy."

I trust you will come up with a Chinese name for it
Any ideas in that

 

[TaiShang]

I have said it once & I will say it again
China can afford to be authoritarian becuz China is no where near as Diverse as India simple as that
If we try to implement your system here there will be civil war in no time & our democracy functions very well when you compare how educated our people are

I trust you will come up with a Chinese name for it
Any ideas in that

There is a growing literature on the issue. My research interest is mostly dedicated to China's foreign policy. So, I have not studied the case in dept academically.

Domestic politics is the realm for China's historians and legal and law experts.

There is no rush to name it. But it is definitely geared towards constitutionalism.

Every nation has its own dynamics; historical and modern. Every nation, ideally, should be left to choose whatever way they wish to go. Experimentalism and incrementalism are healthy attributes.

 

[Yizhi]

I have said it once & I will say it again
China can afford to be authoritarian becuz China is no where near as Diverse as India simple as that
If we try to implement your system here there will be civil war in no time & our democracy functions very well when you compare how educated our people are

i agree with you that the Chinese system would not work for India. it's a system with 2000 years historical experience and Confucius values embedded, almost impossible to transplant for non-East Asia countries.
though i'm not so sure your democracy functions very well, i do think it's the only option for India to stay as a united country which is crucial for India's future development.

I trust you will come up with a Chinese name for it
Any ideas in that

i think i read it somewhere a few years back that the Chinese system is developing 'vertical democracy' while the West is 'horizontal democracy'. it's a very interesting concept.

 

[Echo_419]

i agree with you that the Chinese system would not work for India. it's a system with 2000 years historical experience and Confucius values embedded, almost impossible to transplant for non-East Asia countries.
though i'm not so sure your democracy functions very well, i do think it's the only option for India to stay as a united country which is crucial for India's future development.

i think i read it somewhere a few years back that the Chinese system is developing 'vertical democracy' while the West is 'horizontal democracy'. it's a very interesting concept.

Exxactly Chinese systemhas evolved over thousands of years & our system was historically more decentralized & we were one of the top economies in the world along with China before the brits arrived & runied everything.If we could do that before we can do it again

i agree with you that the Chinese system would not work for India. it's a system with 2000 years historical experience and Confucius values embedded, almost impossible to transplant for non-East Asia countries.
though i'm not so sure your democracy functions very well, i do think it's the only option for India to stay as a united country which is crucial for India's future development.

i think i read it somewhere a few years back that the Chinese system is developing 'vertical democracy' while the West is 'horizontal democracy'. it's a very interesting concept.

& do tell more about your Vertical Democracy

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I didn't say dual party I mean Multi party but I am sure you guys will come up with your version of democracy
Something like 'democracy with Chinese characteristics'

The multi-party political landscape will be even worse in China.

BTW, our democracy has different meaning compared to the western one.

 

[Yizhi]

& do tell more about your Vertical Democracy

"What’s the difference between horizontal democracy and vertical democracy? In Western democracies, all the people are equally empowered to periodically elected leaders, choosing between different parties and different candidates for determined political positions. The structure is horizontal. Everyone is equal with periodical elections to create the leaders. Jurisdiction for governing, justification for governing is won through elections, if you win an election, then you have the justification.

China’s model of leadership is constancy; the structure is a vertical process, a top-down/bottom-up interplay between the bottom and the top, a very dynamic interplay of setting general goals, of framing basic conditions by the leadership and the response and initiatives by the people. We call this “framing in the forest and letting the trees grow”. And justification of governing in China is achieved by results. Modern Western democracy is a model fitting, of course, to Western history and values. In 1969 for the first time in the United States black people got vote. In many countries all over the West women couldn’t vote until quite recently. What kind of democracy is that? So, it’s maturing. The only justification for governing leads to strong election term thinking. Party A wants to prove party B is wrong and party B wants to prove party A is wrong and that’s the game. Even if nothing else is happening much of this can be observed today in the current American Congress despite the efforts of its new leader.

China, a vertical democracy, is still in a very evolutionary process and it’s shaped by China’s history and values. In this model the decision making process takes place in a comprehensive top-down/bottom-up interplay, and close attention to the needs and initiatives of the people and long-term goals are combined with flexibility in single steps and adaptation to changing conditions. And the success of the system lies in the quality of the leadership. Let me give you two quick examples of the bottom-up/top-down phenomenon. In late 1978 after Deng Xiaoping became leader, a group of 18 farmers broke the collective agricultural system, the collective farms, and they said to the authorities that they were going to divide their farms and give them to 18 families to farm as they want. As it turned out they had support of local leaders. In a very short time Deng Xiaoping learned about the experience and just a few months later the collective farming system in China was changed to individual farms on a national level. A powerful initiative coming from the bottom was recognized.

Very recently this year China’s government changed its policy about negotiating with foreign companies and foreign countries. They recognized this because it had been going on for a long time. China is the most centralized country in the world. This is something we all acknowledge. But people had been making direct deals not through Beijing but directly with foreign governments, directly with foreign companies for some years. This year the central government recognized this bottom-up initiative and said – from now on any projects under a hundred million dollars a year needn’t go through Beijing, you can negotiate and make these deals directly with other countries and other companies."

Журнал "Международные процессы"

this is the work of JOHN NAISBITT.
just to clarify, i don't have any expertise in this field, and this is just one particular view.

 

[Echo_419]

The multi-party political landscape will be even worse in China.

BTW, our democracy has different meaning compared to the western one.

do explain

"What’s the difference between horizontal democracy and vertical democracy? In Western democracies, all the people are equally empowered to periodically elected leaders, choosing between different parties and different candidates for determined political positions. The structure is horizontal. Everyone is equal with periodical elections to create the leaders. Jurisdiction for governing, justification for governing is won through elections, if you win an election, then you have the justification.

China’s model of leadership is constancy; the structure is a vertical process, a top-down/bottom-up interplay between the bottom and the top, a very dynamic interplay of setting general goals, of framing basic conditions by the leadership and the response and initiatives by the people. We call this “framing in the forest and letting the trees grow”. And justification of governing in China is achieved by results. Modern Western democracy is a model fitting, of course, to Western history and values. In 1969 for the first time in the United States black people got vote. In many countries all over the West women couldn’t vote until quite recently. What kind of democracy is that? So, it’s maturing. The only justification for governing leads to strong election term thinking. Party A wants to prove party B is wrong and party B wants to prove party A is wrong and that’s the game. Even if nothing else is happening much of this can be observed today in the current American Congress despite the efforts of its new leader.

China, a vertical democracy, is still in a very evolutionary process and it’s shaped by China’s history and values. In this model the decision making process takes place in a comprehensive top-down/bottom-up interplay, and close attention to the needs and initiatives of the people and long-term goals are combined with flexibility in single steps and adaptation to changing conditions. And the success of the system lies in the quality of the leadership. Let me give you two quick examples of the bottom-up/top-down phenomenon. In late 1978 after Deng Xiaoping became leader, a group of 18 farmers broke the collective agricultural system, the collective farms, and they said to the authorities that they were going to divide their farms and give them to 18 families to farm as they want. As it turned out they had support of local leaders. In a very short time Deng Xiaoping learned about the experience and just a few months later the collective farming system in China was changed to individual farms on a national level. A powerful initiative coming from the bottom was recognized.

Very recently this year China’s government changed its policy about negotiating with foreign companies and foreign countries. They recognized this because it had been going on for a long time. China is the most centralized country in the world. This is something we all acknowledge. But people had been making direct deals not through Beijing but directly with foreign governments, directly with foreign companies for some years. This year the central government recognized this bottom-up initiative and said – from now on any projects under a hundred million dollars a year needn’t go through Beijing, you can negotiate and make these deals directly with other countries and other companies."

Журнал "Международные процессы"

this is the work of JOHN NAISBITT.
just to clarify, i don't have any expertise in this field, and this is just one particular view.

The top down leadership model needs excellent leaders at top level & this is something not present at all countries
While it is a great model if you have excellent leaders like deng,it will be a disastor if you had bad leaders like Mao(in economics) it will be a diastor.In democracies horizontal will always be better becuz if the top leaders are Fu*ked up then & there is no way of removing them then the country's future is also fu*ked up

 

[TaiShang]

do explain
The top down leadership model needs excellent leaders at top level & this is something not present at all countries
While it is a great model if you have excellent leaders like deng,it will be a disastor if you had bad leaders like Mao(in economics) it will be a diastor.In democracies horizontal will always be better becuz if the top leaders are Fu*ked up then & there is no way of removing them then the country's future is also fu*ked up

Well, this is what you believe. How you feel about Mao or other leaders does not concern us.

Apparently, it is China to decide what suits it best. Your attempt to give it a name will fail because we have no interest in listening to your advice.

Keep it for yourself and apply your best ideas to India, please.

 

[Echo_419]

Well, this is what you believe. How you feel about Mao or other leaders does not concern us.

Apparently, it is China to decide what suits it best. Your attempt to give it a name will fail because we have no interest in listening to your advice.

Keep it for yourself and apply your best ideas to India, please.

Sorry if i offended you man was just trying to debate

 

[TaiShang]

Sorry if i offended you man

You did not.

Just giving my explanation. Your attempt is worthless.

 

[Echo_419]

You did not.

Just giving my explanation. Your attempt is worthless.

What attempt exactly & what i am doing accordig to you

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, the western democracy will not grant you the right to vote the same puppets.

However, the voters have no real power to influence the lobbyists controlled government, since both A and B work for the same lobbyists.

You are dissatisfied with A, then you switch your vote for B. However, it turns out that B is working for the very same lobbyists as A.

As a voter, you are pretty screwed with this kind of democracy.