WSJ How China's Growing Nationalism Changes Views of the West

[beijingwalker]

How China's Growing Nationalism Changes Views of the West

 

[Indus Pakistan]

How China's Growing Nationalism Changes Views of the West

Thanks for sharing this. This video is very telling of the Chinese thought process and recipe for success.

1. China was weak in the past because it was vulnerable.
   
2. In order to change that we needed to learn from the west.
   
3. Today we are better and stronger then the west

There is clear flow of logic in this train of thought. In Pakistan and many Muslim countries [besides Turkey] the thought process is reverse of China.

1. We were better then the west.
   
2. We need to unlearn from the west by rejecting westernism
   
3. We are still better then west even if our countries are dumps and have to migrate to west for a better lifes.

 

[B.K.N]

• We were better then the west.

• We need to unlearn from the west by rejecting westernism

• We are still better then west even if our countries are dumps and have to migrate to west for a better lifes.

Only you say we are better than west we have world's oldest civilization we have defeated a western invader etc
Pakistanis don't say such things

 

[beijingwalker]

Many foreigners believe that the Chinese will never speak against the government, but the truth is the opposite and just as the videos shows, the worst time for badmouthing the government was 1980's and 1990's , everything from the west was believed to be perfect and everything Chinese and Chinese government was trash, teachers in schools of all levels taught students how wonderful the west was and how terrible China and Chinese government was.

The Chinese government during those times chose to keep quite and not openly debate with the general public and intellectuals, put all the heart in working to develop the country, work but no BS, two decades passed and their hard work and strategy eventually paid off.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Only you say we are better than west we have world's oldest civilization we have defeated a western invader etc
Pakistanis don't say such things

You, go get a education and then I will spare some time for you. Now go suck some ghutka.

Many foreigners believe that the Chinese will never speak against the government, but the truth is the opposite and just as the videos shows, the worst time for badmouthing the government was 1980's and 1990's , everything from the west was believed to be perfect and everything Chinese and Chinese government was trash, teachers in schools of all levels taught students how wonderful the west was and how terrible China and Chinese government was.

The Chinese government during those times chose to keep quite and not openly debate with the general public and intellectuals, put all the heart in working to develop the country, work but no BS, two decades passed and their hard work and strategy eventually paid off.

The thing is you have a system that learns and evolves. The public place pressure on their government to deliver and improve.

 

[B.K.N]

The Chinese government during those times chose to keep quite and not openly debate with the general public and intellectuals, put all the heart in working to develop the country, work but no BS, two decades passed and th

@Indus Pakistan thinks China became a developmed country only by copying west
If that was the case then today India also would have been a super power

Now go suck some ghutka.

I am not nashai like you

 

[beijingwalker]

@Indus Pakistan thinks China became a developmed country only by copying west

No, he didn't say that, actually his ideas are similar to the Chinese leaders during the 1980's and 1990's, we found we were far behind and we need to learn from those who were far advanced and developed than us, copying was a necessary first step but we also changed them to fit our needs. I believe if Pakistan's leaders are like him, your country will be at a much higher level in couples of years. Learning from someone who is better than you is never a shame in China.

 

[B.K.N]

I believe if Pakistan's leaders are like him

Our leaders are much better than him he doesn't know anything about Pakistan
But problem is most of them were corrupt

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

No, he didn't say that, actually his ideas are similar to the Chinese leaders during the 1980's and 1990's, we found we were far behind and we need to learn from those who were far advanced and developed than us, copying was a necessary first step but we also changed them to fit our needs. I believe if Pakistan's leaders are like him, your country will be at a much higher level in couples of years. Learning from someone who is better than you is never a shame in China.

The issue is that you are still extremely behind the western countries, be it in terms of GDP per capita, science and technology, ability to attract and retain talent, soft power etc.

The problem now is that, you have stopped learning from the west AT ALL.

The Deng Xiaoping philosophy that basically led to China's rise from 1980 to 2010 was dismantled and altered by Xi Jinping.

Our leaders are much better than him he doesn't know anything about Pakistan
But problem is most of them were corrupt

Corruption is common in all developing countries, and is usually not a road block to a nation's progress.

China itself was extremely corrupt during its developing times. So were all major developing economies (with the possible exception of Singapore)

Many foreigners believe that the Chinese will never speak against the government, but the truth is the opposite and just as the videos shows, the worst time for badmouthing the government was 1980's and 1990's , everything from the west was believed to be perfect and everything Chinese and Chinese government was trash, teachers in schools of all levels taught students how wonderful the west was and how terrible China and Chinese government was.

The Chinese government during those times chose to keep quite and not openly debate with the general public and intellectuals, put all the heart in working to develop the country, work but no BS, two decades passed and their hard work and strategy eventually paid off.

Now however it has gone dangerously to the opposite end, with the attitude that we need to learn nothing from the west, specially on the political/ideological/philosophical front.

In fact, according to the current rulers of China, they are reverting back to Mao's era in many ways.

There has been a reemergence of the cult of personality.

 

[B.K.N]

Corruption is common in all developing

Ahsan Iqbal and Shahbaz Sharif used to say same thing

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Ahsan Iqbal and Shahbaz Sharif used to say same thing

And they are correct.

Corruption is NEVER the sole reason why a nation doesn't progress. In Deng era of China's growth (1980-2010), all kinds of horror stories used to float about corruption. Even local city level officials didn't try to hide the insane and obviously ill-gotten gains like cars, watches etc.

But corruption is easy to blame by the people. If only, those public servants and politicians can get there act together. No one wants to blame themselves.

I'm not saying corruption should be tolerated or rationalized.

But corruption is never the singular thing that keeps nations from growth and development.

I have seen here on PDF, that corruption of bureaucracy and politicians, is considered almost the sole reason for Pakistan's dire economic condition. But that is actually untrue.

Pakistan would need to analyze a hundred other things to come to the reasons behind their economic condition.

 

[beijingwalker]

The issue is that you are still extremely behind the western countries, be it in terms of GDP per capita, science and technology, ability to attract and retain talent, soft power etc.

The problem now is that, you have stopped learning from the west AT ALL.

The Deng Xiaoping philosophy that basically led to China's rise from 1980 to 2010 was dismantled and altered by Xi Jinping.



Corruption is common in all developing countries, and is usually not a road block to a nation's progress.

China itself was extremely corrupt during its developing times. So were all major developing economies (with the possible exception of Singapore)



Now however it has gone dangerously to the opposite end, with the attitude that we need to learn nothing from the west, specially on the political/ideological/philosophical front.

In fact, according to the current rulers of China, they are reverting back to Mao's era in many ways.

There has been a reemergence of the cult of personality.

Another China expert appeared, China is still a developing country, but she is already the world biggest trading nation, industrial nation and manufacturing nation, China is the only country on this planet which has all industries listed by UN industry category list and top half of them. so even China's per capita GDP is not as high as developed countries but the country itself has already made tremendous achievement comparing with herself.

Now since you speak about China with this certainty and confidence, why would you do something to make your India better? It's easy to find faults on others but when it comes to yourself, it's another story, isn't it?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Many foreigners believe that the Chinese will never speak against the government, but the truth is the opposite and just as the videos shows, the worst time for badmouthing the government was 1980's and 1990's , everything from the west was believed to be perfect and everything Chinese and Chinese government was trash, teachers in schools of all levels taught students how wonderful the west was and how terrible China and Chinese government was.

The Chinese government during those times chose to keep quite and not openly debate with the general public and intellectuals, put all the heart in working to develop the country, work but no BS, two decades passed and their hard work and strategy eventually paid off.

Welcome back!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Another China expert appeared, China is still a developing country, but she is already the world biggest trading nation, industrial nation and manufacturing nation, China is the only country on this planet which has all industries listed by UN industry category list and top half of them. so even China's per capita GDP is not as high as developed countries but the country itself has already made tremendous achievement comparing 8% with herself.

Now since you speak about China with this certainty and confidence, why would you do something to make your India better? It's easy to find faults on others but when it comes to yourself, it's another story, isn't it?

1. Of course China has achieved a lot. It is certainly the largest goods trading nation in the world. It can also be called the largest industrial/manufacturing nation.
2. However, the technological base is still quite behind the western countries.
3. And China is in fact behind other countries when it comes to the softer aspects, like for example Movies and TV Shows etc.
4. As for India, India and China are two very different countries, with very different DNAs.
5. India is actually doing quite good. We have been growing at 8% or so now for more than 2 decades, and are reasonably expected to grow at good rates for the coming 2 decades.
6. Other than that, India and China can't be directly compared, because China is a largely homogenuous nation, with no historical baggage like the caste system, and was located in a much prosperous neighborhood comprised of Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

we found we were far behind and we need to learn from those who were far advanced and developed than us, copying was a necessary first step but we also changed them to fit our needs

This sentence needs etching in stone moument to progress.

Learning from someone who is better than you is never a shame in China.

Mashallah.