roadrunner
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2007
- Messages
- 5,696
- Reaction score
- 0
Writings of Ben Gurion on Pakistan
- Thread starter roadrunner
- Start date
I've seen almost all districs in Balochistan, spent a lot of time with locals and never did I sense any anti-Pakistanism in them. Most people mind their own business, talked about little problems they face in daily life and asked me a lot of question about my city life and life in the west. Most of them...except for the students didn't know the history of Balochistan or how and why she joined Pakistan. They consider themselves Pakistani, most of them are born as Pakistani...indeed very patriot!
Anti-Pakistan Balochi community however lives abroad and I'm glad they've left Pakistan because they don't deserve to breathe "Pak" air.
So I'm confident that no matter what some seperatist leaders or landlords say, the Baloch will always support a united Pakistan. Its their "muluk" as they often reffer to Pakistan.
asaad-ul-islam
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,141
- Reaction score
- 0
yes! you will find that a lot in people who have left the country! your account should also ease all this tension in our minds of Pakistan splitting up, that will definitely not happen. Talk to any military personnel and they will tell you it's not as bad as you think it is.I've seen almost all districs in Balochistan, spent a lot of time with locals and never did I sense any anti-Pakistanism in them. Most people mind their own business, talked about little problems they face in daily life and asked me a lot of question about my city life and life in the west. Most of them...except for the students didn't know the history of Balochistan or how and why she joined Pakistan. They consider themselves Pakistani, most of them are born as Pakistani...indeed very patriot!
Anti-Pakistan Balochi community however lives abroad and I'm glad they've left Pakistan because they don't deserve to breathe "Pak" air.
So I'm confident that no matter what some seperatist leaders or landlords say, the Baloch will always support a united Pakistan. Its their "muluk" as they often reffer to Pakistan.
The whole entire situation is just being exacerbated by the media, politicians looking for another term and feel that they are the ultimate saviours of Pakistan, and of course, the west and india. india is in a more dangerous state, just look at how much territory naxalites control? the only difference is that the govt. and indian army don't give a damn.
RoadRunner
it's good to have you back sir!
Solomon2
BANNED
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2008
- Messages
- 19,475
- Reaction score
- -37
- Country
- Location
Sorry, gang, but the London Jewish Chronicle wasn't even published on that date, but on 8/4 and 8/11. An archive search for 1967 doesn't turn up this quote, either. Maybe it's from some other "Jewish Chronicle", but I'd need more details to accept that.
In any case, the surest indication of the seriousness of such a statement is how, if true, it was acted upon over the last forty years. And in that time Israel has taken no action against Pakistan that I know of, save for Peres' statement a few years back that he prayed for the health of Musharraf.
In any case, the surest indication of the seriousness of such a statement is how, if true, it was acted upon over the last forty years. And in that time Israel has taken no action against Pakistan that I know of, save for Peres' statement a few years back that he prayed for the health of Musharraf.
roadrunner
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2007
- Messages
- 5,696
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't you think it was coincidental that Pakistan divided in 1971, following this alleged statement 4 years prior?
pkpatriotic
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2008
- Messages
- 2,317
- Reaction score
- 0
I found this artical/interview of historian Karen Armstrong is eye opening and related to the topic:
INTERVIEW-Fate of Pakistan pivotal - historian Karen Armstrong | Reuters
By Simon Cameron-Moore
ISLAMABAD, Feb 3 (Reuters) - The future of Pakistan, and how it balances the need for Muslim symbols with the secularism needed to run a modern state, will be important for the future of the world, according to historian and theologian Karen Armstrong.
Nuclear-armed and reaping the grim harvest of "extremism" resulting from the West's support for a religious war to drive the Soviet Union out of neighbouring Afghanistan, Pakistan has a big question to answer, says Armstrong.
"How do you become a secular Muslim state?"
Last Thursday, Armstrong, whose writings have highlighted the tolerant and pluralistic nature of Islam, met President Pervez Musharraf, who hoped to change Pakistan into a state where "enlightened moderation" prevailed.
Musharraf, who came to power as a general in 1999, has made little headway, according to critics, and his popularity has plummetted, while support for the United States has provoked Islamist militants into waging war in tribal areas of the northwest where al Qaeda leaders are believed to be hiding.
"Pakistan is on the frontier of this present struggle," Armstrong told Reuters during a visit to Islamabad to celebrate the golden jubilee of the Aga Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismaili Muslim sect.
"I think it is not so much important for the future of Islam as important for the future of the world," said the 63-year-old Briton, whose book "The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam" was released a year before al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on the United States.
"What happens here will be very decisive in how the so-called war against terrorism proceeds in other regions."
Pakistan, the world's second largest Muslim nation, has been locked in a struggle between liberal progressives and religious conservatives since it was carved out of the bloody partition of India in 1947 as a homeland for the Subcontinent's Muslims.
Both sides try to interpret the words of Pakistan's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah to suit their ends. Jinnah died a year after Pakistan, which then included modern day Bangladesh, was formed.
"The kind of conversations I have about this topic remind me very much of conversations I had in Israel, another secular state born out of displacement and tragedy."
Armstrong said Israelis faced a similar struggle between secularists in tune with the vision of their country's founder, David Ben-Gurion, and ultra-orthodox Jews, some of them militant.
Even Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, realised the need to have a degree of secularism in order to run a modern state, she said.
Khomeini, just before he died in 1989, told mullahs not to meddle in defence and economic policies, she said.
CORNERED BY SECULARISM
The separation of religion in the state represents a modern, major change in societies where religion is a way of life.
When it happens too quickly, people feel threatened and if attacked through the media or by force, they become aggressive, said Armstrong, a former nun who describes herself as a "freelance monotheist".
"Most of these extreme movements are rooted in profound fear, a fear of annihilation," she said, stressing that the same dynamics play out in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
"In small-town America there are Christians who believe they are going to be wiped out by a so-called liberal establishment."
During the interview, Armstrong cited the example of Sayyid Qutb, whose writings from an Egyptian jail in the 1950s and 60s helped craft a strain of Sunni Muslim fundamentalism that spawned the global jihad of al Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri.
People should study Qutb's texts rather than the Koran if they wanted to understand al Qaeda, she said. But they had to be read in the context of the torture Qutb suffered and his reaction to efforts to secularise Egypt, she said.
Attempts to introduce secularism, which took centuries in the West, has been done too quickly in the Middle East, according to Armstrong, resulting in religious movements that tend to become lethal if they occur in regions where violence is endemic.
Despite his fundamentalism, Qutb probably wouldn't have approved of bin Laden, according to Armstrong, who views the al Qaeda leader as "a criminal" rather than a thinker or ideologue.
Armstrong didn't see militancy in Pakistan's tribal lands, or Hamas or Hizbollah movements, or even bin Laden's al Qaeda, as being motivated principally by religion.
"They're a form of religiously articulated nationalism, religiously articulated identity politics", she said.
(Editing by Sanjeev Miglani)
INTERVIEW-Fate of Pakistan pivotal - historian Karen Armstrong | Reuters
By Simon Cameron-Moore
ISLAMABAD, Feb 3 (Reuters) - The future of Pakistan, and how it balances the need for Muslim symbols with the secularism needed to run a modern state, will be important for the future of the world, according to historian and theologian Karen Armstrong.
Nuclear-armed and reaping the grim harvest of "extremism" resulting from the West's support for a religious war to drive the Soviet Union out of neighbouring Afghanistan, Pakistan has a big question to answer, says Armstrong.
"How do you become a secular Muslim state?"
Last Thursday, Armstrong, whose writings have highlighted the tolerant and pluralistic nature of Islam, met President Pervez Musharraf, who hoped to change Pakistan into a state where "enlightened moderation" prevailed.
Musharraf, who came to power as a general in 1999, has made little headway, according to critics, and his popularity has plummetted, while support for the United States has provoked Islamist militants into waging war in tribal areas of the northwest where al Qaeda leaders are believed to be hiding.
"Pakistan is on the frontier of this present struggle," Armstrong told Reuters during a visit to Islamabad to celebrate the golden jubilee of the Aga Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismaili Muslim sect.
"I think it is not so much important for the future of Islam as important for the future of the world," said the 63-year-old Briton, whose book "The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam" was released a year before al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on the United States.
"What happens here will be very decisive in how the so-called war against terrorism proceeds in other regions."
Pakistan, the world's second largest Muslim nation, has been locked in a struggle between liberal progressives and religious conservatives since it was carved out of the bloody partition of India in 1947 as a homeland for the Subcontinent's Muslims.
Both sides try to interpret the words of Pakistan's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah to suit their ends. Jinnah died a year after Pakistan, which then included modern day Bangladesh, was formed.
"The kind of conversations I have about this topic remind me very much of conversations I had in Israel, another secular state born out of displacement and tragedy."
Armstrong said Israelis faced a similar struggle between secularists in tune with the vision of their country's founder, David Ben-Gurion, and ultra-orthodox Jews, some of them militant.
Even Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, realised the need to have a degree of secularism in order to run a modern state, she said.
Khomeini, just before he died in 1989, told mullahs not to meddle in defence and economic policies, she said.
CORNERED BY SECULARISM
The separation of religion in the state represents a modern, major change in societies where religion is a way of life.
When it happens too quickly, people feel threatened and if attacked through the media or by force, they become aggressive, said Armstrong, a former nun who describes herself as a "freelance monotheist".
"Most of these extreme movements are rooted in profound fear, a fear of annihilation," she said, stressing that the same dynamics play out in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
"In small-town America there are Christians who believe they are going to be wiped out by a so-called liberal establishment."
During the interview, Armstrong cited the example of Sayyid Qutb, whose writings from an Egyptian jail in the 1950s and 60s helped craft a strain of Sunni Muslim fundamentalism that spawned the global jihad of al Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri.
People should study Qutb's texts rather than the Koran if they wanted to understand al Qaeda, she said. But they had to be read in the context of the torture Qutb suffered and his reaction to efforts to secularise Egypt, she said.
Attempts to introduce secularism, which took centuries in the West, has been done too quickly in the Middle East, according to Armstrong, resulting in religious movements that tend to become lethal if they occur in regions where violence is endemic.
Despite his fundamentalism, Qutb probably wouldn't have approved of bin Laden, according to Armstrong, who views the al Qaeda leader as "a criminal" rather than a thinker or ideologue.
Armstrong didn't see militancy in Pakistan's tribal lands, or Hamas or Hizbollah movements, or even bin Laden's al Qaeda, as being motivated principally by religion.
"They're a form of religiously articulated nationalism, religiously articulated identity politics", she said.
(Editing by Sanjeev Miglani)
A1Kaid
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 9,667
- Reaction score
- 8
- Country
- Location
I have produced a video called "The Day Pakistan and Israel Came Close to War" and I include the same quote you have in your post. I think my video would go well in the thread. If I may have the permission of the mods or admins may I please post it here. I really do think it will contribute to the discussion. My Documentary also contains footage of Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben Gurion...
I would like to include this interesting article about how the MOSSAD and RAW are joining to Target Pakistan!
"MOSSAD and India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan"
By Tariq Saeedi
Globe-Intel
5-19-2
"It is essential that we...strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans." -- David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister.
Janes information group, the world's foremost source on intelligence information, reported in July 2001 that "The Indian spy agency RAW and the Israeli spy agency Mossad have created four new agencies to infiltrate Pakistan to target important religious and military personalities, journalists, judges, lawyers and bureaucrats. In addition, bombs would be exploded in trains, railway stations, bridges, bus stations, cinemas, hotels and mosques of rival Islamic sects to incite sectarianism."
Pakistani intelligence agencies also said that RAW had constituted a plan to lure Pakistani men between 20 and 30 years of age to visit India so that they could be entrapped "in cases of fake currency and subversion and then be coerced to spy for India."
This was the high point of cementing an unholy alliance which began much earlier and which continues to tighten its noose around the neck of Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asia.
It appears that RAW and Mossad -- either singly or jointly, either covertly or overtly -- have been making efforts to penetrate sensitive circles of top echelon in Pakistan.
It cannot be said with certainty but there are some reasons to assume that Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister of Pakistan, wittingly or unwittingly, played in the hands of RAW-Mossad masterminds. She appointed Rehman Malik as chief of the Federal Investigation Agency which then launched a secret war against the Islamists; amounting to a direct attack on the ISI.
War against religious extremists could have been a laudable goal but it seemed to target only those elements which could have brought a semblance of moderation to the religious swatch cutting across Pakistan society.
Thus, leaving the field wide open for extremists.
It seems that the Pakistani military was equally dismayed by reports of FIA contacts with the Israeli secret service, the MOSSAD, to investigate Islamist terrorists.
One of the first acts of President Leghari after dismissing Benazir Bhutto on November 5, 1996 was to imprison the Ghulam Asghar, head of FIA, suspended on non-specified corruption charges. Rehman Malik, Addl. Director General FIA, was also arrested.
Whether these actions were triggered as a consequence of plotting by RAW-Mossad planners or whether it was an entirely internal matter, it is difficult to say.
Bhutto s visit to India last year at a time when Pakistan was going through one of the worst crises in its history, and her statements there which aimed to undermine the whole foundation of Pakistan, generate more than a flicker of doubt in analytic minds.
The basic question arises: Who is Benazir Bhutto?
Leaving BB to her own fate, let's return to RAW-Mossad connection.
What is clear right now is that Indian RAW and Israeli Mossad are collaborating extensively to curb the freedom movement of Kashmir and destabilize Pakistan.
The Indian newspaper The Pioneer wrote on March 3, 2001: Fencing of the Indo-Pak border is not enough. To check Pakistan-sponsored cross-border terrorism, top security experts of Israel have suggested that hi-tech gadgets ranging from an electronic barrier system of radars to thermal imaging devices should be immediately installed on India's sensitive international border in J[ammu] & K[ashmir] and Punjab sectors.
The team of experts, including officials of the Mossad, the Israeli Army and the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI), also found shocking loopholes in the security arrangements relating to the much-talked about Samjhauta Express. They advised that instead of Lahore, the train should terminate on the Attari border. Sources in the Ministry of Home Affairs said the Israeli experts surveyed the 198 km international border in Jammu and Punjab and reviewed the route of the Samjhauta Express with top officials of the Border Security Force.
Subsequently, former DG of the Border Security Force, E.N. Ram Mohan was appointed as the consultant on border management. Mr. Ram Mohan has recommended that besides radars, aerostate balloons and FLIR equipment be used.
India is keen to purchase surveillance aircraft (UAVs) from Israel to gain intelligence teeth. The UAVs could also help the state police in keeping an eye in naxalite-affected areas of Andhra Pradesh.
For several years, Mossad and Israel's internal intelligence agency, Shinbhet, have utilised unmanned air vehicles to patrol the hypersensitive Gaza border.
Qutbuddin Aziz, former minister in Pakistan embassy in London, wrote an excellent article, titled 'Dangerous Nexus between Israel & India.' It was published by a prominent Pakistani newspaper on April 1, 2001.
Aziz writes: "Top secret details of Indian Home Minister LK Advani's visit to Israel in June 2000, show that the deals he has struck with the Israelis would make India and Israel partners in threatening the Muslim world with diabolic conspiracies to fragment and cripple it as a political force in the world. The details of his meetings with Israel's rulers, particularly the heads of the Israeli Home Ministry and its intelligence agencies, Mossad and Sabak, reveal that the arrangements he has made for joint Indo-Israel espionage operations in key areas of the Muslim world would make the Indian embassies in these Muslim countries the eyes and ears of the worldwide cloak-and-dagger Israeli spy network.
"Under the euphemism of 'counter-terrorism,' India is allowing Israel to establish a huge spy establishment in India which will, inter alia, unearth and monitor 'Islamic fundamentalist' individuals and groups for elimination by extra judicial process or by cold-blooded murder and kidnapping.
"The most important meeting Indian Home Minister Advani had during his three-day Israeli tour on June 13-16 was with the top brass of Israel's intelligence agencies in Tel Aviv. Heading the Israeli team was the powerful chief of Israeli police, Yehuda Wilk, with the heads of the Israeli intelligence agencies, Mossad and Sabak, and military officials dealing with Israel's punitive and espionage operations against Arabs in Israel, Palestine and neighbouring states such as Lebanon and Syria. Senior officials from the Israeli Foreign Office and the defence and home ministries attended this meeting. Israeli experts in bomb detection were also present.
"Mr. Advani's large team included India's highest-level spymasters such as the Director of the Intelligence Bureau, Mr. Shayamal Dutta, the Director of the Central Bureau of Investigation, Mr. R. K. Raghvan, the head of the Indian Border Security Force, Mr. E. M. Ram Mohan, Indian Home Ministry's powerful Secretary K. Pande who oversees the work of the infamous Indian spy agency, RAW, and liaises with the Indian Foreign Office in respect of undercover RAW agents working in Indian embassies abroad, and a senior officer of India's military intelligence agency (equivalent of Pakistan's ISI).
"In this top-level meeting in Tel Aviv on June 14, Advani reportedly thanked the Israeli government for its immense help to India in security matters and spoke of the dangers India and Israel face from their common enemies, i.e., Muslim neighbours.
"Advani, it is reported, highly praised the help provided by Mossad and army commando personnel to the Indian army in the war on 'Muslim militants' in Kashmir and against 'Muslim terrorists' such as the 'Memon brothers' of Mumbai in Dubai. Advani said he had, throughout his political career, advocated India's recognition and friendship with Israel and that his party had played a key role in forcing Congress government to have full diplomatic relations with Israel in 1992.
"He lauded the Indo-Israeli cooperation in the military, economic and other fields. Advani recalled that India had voted in favour of a US-sponsored motion in the UN for rescinding a UN resolution that equated Zionism with racism. Mr. Advani explained at length India's security problems in which the danger from Pakistan and Indian Muslims getting Arab money loomed large. Advani gave a long list of the special services in spying and the anti-insurgency devices and spy equipment India urgently needs from Israel to combat 'Muslim terrorism.'
"In the June 14 Tel Aviv meeting, the Israeli Police Chief, Yehuda Wilk, profusely praised India for its friendship with Israel and pledged help to the Indian government in combating 'Muslim terrorism' that poses new threats to Israel and India. The heads of India's intelligence agencies then briefed the Israeli side in the meeting on the ground situation in India in respect of 'Muslim terrorists,' especially in Jammu and Kashmir, and the new dangers coming up for India and Israel because of the Pakistani bomb and the fear that Pakistan may give its nuclear weapons to the anti-Israel Arabs.
"The Indian side showed a keen interest in learning from Israeli security experts how they had run the slice of Lebanon which Israel ruled for 18 years and gave up recently. Some information about the Israeli torture and investigation methods was gathered by the Indian side from the Israelis with regard to dealing with Arab dissidents within Israel and in the Palestinian Authority region.
"The Indians gave the Israelis a long shopping list of spying, torture and surveillance equipment such as electronic fencing of sensitive sites, laser systems, short-range rockets, eagle-eyed long distance snipers, observation blimps, giant shields, night vision device, unmanned aircraft of the MALAT wing of the Israeli Aircraft Industries Limited, special protective dress and gear for security personnel, cross border snopping devices and gadgets, training and deployment of spies and the special gear for them, use of computers and Internet for espionage and disinformation, code-breaking, tailing of enemy agents and their elimination, nuclear espionage, purloining state secrets of hostile countries and pooling them for the good of India and Israel and their mutual friends.
"The Israelis were interested in having access to the secret reports of Indian undercover RAW diplomats from certain Muslim countries of special interest to Israel (especially Pakistan, Libya and Iran). India is apparently willing to grant access to Israeli agents to the Indian Home Ministry's Central Intelligence Processing Unit (CIPU) in New Delhi. This was recently set up under Advani's direction with Israeli and US help. A handpicked RAW officer, trusted by Advani, heads this unit. Israel wants full access to its information data. The Indian government has already allowed access to it by American intelligence agencies now working with the Indian government on so-called anti-terrorist assignments.
Federation of American Scientists website comments on RAW in these words: "RAW has engaged in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighboring countries. RAW has enjoyed the backing of successive Indian governments in these efforts. Working directly under the Prime Minister, the structure, rank, pay and perks of the Research & Analysis Wing are kept secret from Parliament."
Tarek Fatah, a Turkish scholar settled in Canada, wrote: "Britain's authoritative and respected defense publication, Jane's Terrorism & Security Monitor, reports that Israel and India have formed a military relationship and that Israeli intelligence is active in Occupied Kashmir.
"It says: Israeli intelligence agencies have been intensifying their relations with India's security apparatus and are now understood to be heavily involved in helping New Delhi combat Islamic militants in the disputed province of Kashmir...
Ed Blanche writes in Janes' Security on 14 August 2001: "Israeli intelligence agencies have been intensifying their relations with India's security apparatus and are now understood to be heavily involved in helping New Delhi combat Islamic militants in the disputed province of Kashmir, India's only Muslim-majority state which lies at the core of the conflict with neighbouring Pakistan.
"Israel has several teams now in Kashmir training Indian counter-insurgency forces to fight the dozen separatist guerrilla groups operating in the Indian-controlled sector of the disputed state.
"The exact extent of the involvement in Kashmir by Israel s intelligence agencies is far from clear, but it fits into Israel's increasing focus on events in Central Asia, and as far afield as Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim state, to counteract Islamic fundamentalism, which it perceives as a major threat.
"Shimon Peres, currently Israel's foreign minister, said during a visit to New Delhi in January 2001 (shortly before he took his current post in Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's coalition government) that Israel was prepared to co-operate with India to fight terrorism. Weeks earlier, an Israeli counterterrorism team, including military intelligence specialists and senior police commanders, paid a visit to Indian-administered Kashmir and other regions of the country that are grappling with anti-government militants to assess India's security needs.
If there is still any doubt as to the real intentions of Israel, then please see this statement issued by David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:
"The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs.
"This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.
"Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work therefrom against Pakistan.
"It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans. ____
We are grateful to Tariq Saeedi for permission to reprint excerpts from his special report that appeared first in The Balochistan Post, www.balochistanpost.com."
Source:Mossad And India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan
I hope you guys will seriously take the time to read this shocking article.
Last edited:
Vinod2070
BANNED
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2007
- Messages
- 10,552
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
India's relations with Israel are no different from many Arab/Muslim states including Turkey and Egypt.
There may be a relationship for defense purchases and it is no different than any other place where we can buy hardware from.
It has nothing to do with an alleged remark of a former Israeli prime minister dead for more than 3 decades.
India did not even recognize the Israeli state for decades and was the biggest champion of Palestinians. Even now we support nationhood for the Palestinians.
Even Pakistan wants to have relations with the Israelis! Musharraf tried to do that and could not proceed because of domestic opposition.
This is nothing but the Pakistani need to see conspiracies all around themselves to explain away all the failures and to be able to claim that mere survival is a great feat in the face of the conspiracies of the world.
There may be a relationship for defense purchases and it is no different than any other place where we can buy hardware from.
It has nothing to do with an alleged remark of a former Israeli prime minister dead for more than 3 decades.
India did not even recognize the Israeli state for decades and was the biggest champion of Palestinians. Even now we support nationhood for the Palestinians.
Even Pakistan wants to have relations with the Israelis! Musharraf tried to do that and could not proceed because of domestic opposition.
This is nothing but the Pakistani need to see conspiracies all around themselves to explain away all the failures and to be able to claim that mere survival is a great feat in the face of the conspiracies of the world.
Energon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,077
- Reaction score
- 0
I too would like to see the original source of this claim. My searches have turned up nothing so far. The only hits with references to this quote are fringe Pakistani blurbs heavy on propaganda and abysmally low on credibility. I think in order to actually initiate a meaningful discussion the source has to be validated and the article from where this quote was pulled has to be presented in its entirety.
solid snake
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,176
- Reaction score
- 0
The world has changed much since 1967. Pakistan now has secret relations with Israel. Not relations per se, but dialog and assurances are exchanged, at the very least.
solid snake
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,176
- Reaction score
- 0
The division of Pakistan was as a result of policies and treatment of West Pakistanis towards East Pakistani's, no other country of the world can be blamed for the creation of Bangladesh, except Pakistan itself.
Kharian_Beast
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,645
- Reaction score
- 0
This is preposterous and furthermore, it is none of India's concern what is going on in the internal affairs of a foreign nation. A backwards 3rd world nation playing super cop with it's neighbors? Please.
With the same reasoning, Pakistan can invade Indian occupied Kashmir, Gujrat and other areas of tension due to bad treatment by Indian forces and forced isolation by Indian government on Muslims and other minorities. Inshallah that day will come soon when we split India like Pakistan was split wrongfully in 71. The seeds of repression have already sprouted into rebellious foliage across India, a fire that can not be swept under the carpet is gaining momentum.
India will have no one to blame, not this time.
solid snake
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,176
- Reaction score
- 0
India was our enemy and it took advantage of a situation we (Mohajirs/Punjabis/Pathans) had created in our Eastern wing. We are to blame for putting ourselves in that vulnerable situation, and if you do that, I can assure you that your enemy will take advantage of it. This is like repeatedly beating up your brother, and after he teams up with another bully to beat you back, you cry about it and say its unfair.
We ignored two very reasonable demands by our Bengali fellow countrymen, that of recognition of the Bengali language and due representation in the democratic process as their party had won the election. It was our racist attitude that cost us East Pakistan, and unless we learn to take the blame for our mistakes like a mature nation, we are in danger of further similar calamities happening to us.
Kharian_Beast
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,645
- Reaction score
- 0
The last thing a mature nation does is place blame on itself. Yes West Pakistani leadership was to blame to an extent no doubts here, but to remove all the burden from India just makes one look like an apologist traitor, knowing that India has manipulated history and geography to their favour does not help your stance.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
5 Israeli soldiers dead and 50 injured in Tel Aviv ramming attack.
- Latest: AbdulQadir7
Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts
-
-
-
Bajwa calls Bushra's allegations against Saudi Arabia 'baseless'
- Latest: Novus ordu seclorum
-
-
