Will The United States Attack Pakistan?

[zeeshan809]

In a recent report, Daily Telegraph stated that the United States warned President Asif Zardari ,during his recent visit to Washington, that America might start drone attacks in the city of Quetta. The reason given for such a move on part of the US government was frustration due to lack of action by Pakistan in targeting Taliban based in the province of Balochistan. Up till now, drone attacks have been largely confined to the tribal areas. This report, if true, has given air to the theory circulating in many quarters in Pakistan that the US government wants to spread panic and disaster in other parts of the country as part of its plan to capture and control Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

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Wars of the World: Will The United States Attack Pakistan?

 

[Enigma SIG]

Brace for a shock-and-awe campaign of bombing...

 

[muse]

Rubbish! nothing but sensationalist tripe.


Pakistan's very existence is threatened by Talib and Al-Qaeeida, and their elimination is good for Pakistan, it is gratifying that jointly planned drone attacks have dispatched many of the leadership of these fanatical movements have been dispatched.

 

[The Patriot]

Some of our Pakistani brothers would not agree with me but wont it be good for us to take out all the terrorists from our soil and secure Pakistan. and do not allow our ground for attacks neither in Pakistan nor anywhere in the world. then nobody will point fingers at us. we and the whole world knows that there are lawless areas in Pakistan where Taliban roam free. why dont we flush them out so that no one blames us of terrorism. if we do not take them out then the world can easily justify attacking on them on their own.

 

[BATMAN]

Rubbish! nothing but sensationalist tripe.


Pakistan's very existence is threatened by Talib and Al-Qaeeida, and their elimination is good for Pakistan, it is gratifying that jointly planned drone attacks have dispatched many of the leadership of these fanatical movements have been dispatched.

Are you serious?
Do you have count of lives lost in those attacks?

If you rememebr, once US paratroopers entered Pakistan and killed only women and children! Than Pak army warned US and that never happened again!

US and india nexus is trying to stirr Iraq like sectarian killings and Black water have already formulated many death squads.
We have already seen sudden rise in Christian riots. What next stret crimes raising anxiety among people!

Taliban tried to kill Musharraf, they killed BB, they attacked sherpow, they killed school children, they killed police men, they attacked airforce, they killed sports men, they attacked hotels, they attacked Chinese, they killed turkish nationals ......
They cannot follow peace agreements, they flee to Afghanistan, they fight with indian and american wepons, they have built friendly police in Sawat and yet managed to stage attacks on Punjab police, they built their bunkers with heavy earth moving machinery, at the same time they operate in SAWAT, FATA and Baluchistan..they have billions of dollars available to spend on their operations, but in pictures B.Mehsud is wearing two different colored / type shoes?

3 years of TTP in Pakistan but there is no clear cut objective or demand has surfaced just one objective to ward away foreign visitors and make headlines.. overriding other issues of national importance.

What nonsense are we forced to believe?

Some times US says, Iran is helping Taliban, some times others but never US said it is india helping terrorist operating in Pakistan, despite the presence of much more compling evidences.

Some times US don't want to kill Mehsud but later when he played his part suddenly US drone hit him... voluntarily!

No Sir, no US troops will ever be allowed on Pakistan and why should they be?
Are they better soldiers or invincible? Why US trust those children who distrubute targeting chips to various houses than Pakistan army? Why US trust indains diplomats more than Pakistani dimplomats? despite the fact that our diplomats hold evidence of foreign interference!

I have just posted the interview of Ahmed Shuja Pasha in ISI thread where he clearly out lines that there is zero trust among both parties than how come they work in tendom?

Why US don't give Pakistan drones to use in SAWAT and Pak army had to loose precious lives while those could be saved by use of drones?

Why US don't want to give us helicopters or other military hardware? are they affraid of our success in eliminating a terrorist force much faster than US wish?

Why US is running blame game against Pakarmy! which reports to politicians? while no blame on new (infamous) political leadership?

I tell you one thing.... US can only make it difficult for Pak army but it cannot take away the right from army to say no to US invasion and i'm sure army will excercise this right as far as possible.

 

[pakdefender]

First we need to establish whether indeed there is any 'Quetta Shura' in the first place or not or its just an imaginary excuse cooked up by the United States to ditch the blame of their failure in Afghanistan on Pakistan.

Quetta is the least likely place for a Talib to hide.

Quetta is not predominantly Pashtun, its home to the largest Pakistani Hazara population ( Maryabad and surrounding areas ), I dont need to elaborate the bad blood between the Taliban and Hazara.

It would be super foolish for a high value Taliban target like Mullah Omer to hide in Quetta where he knows that he will be toast on the slightest hints of his whereabout.

The Americans know **** all about Quetta , it not like FATA , its a main Pakistani City and any such accusation of large taliban presence is just hog wash. Its exactly that HOG WASH!

 

[muse]

First we need to establish whether indeed there is any 'Quetta Shura' in the first place or not or its just an imaginary excuse cooked up by the United States to ditch the blame of their failure in Afghanistan on Pakistan

For the longest time, we did not acknowledge that Talib were using Waziristan to stage attacks in Afghanistan - then they started attacking Pakistan as well, and we then had to acknowledge that we have a problem here.

Lets imagine that Pakistan will publically say that they have now come to the conclusion that there is a Talib Shura in Quetta - what would the Pakistan govt then have to do?? -- It would have to go after the shura and their protection, isn' that so? and what then??

With Waziristan not a done deal, with Kyber, Kurram and other border agencies brewing, we would have yet another front?

Some friends (Batman) have missed "JOINTLY" planned drone attacks - these are great opportunity for Pakistan to takeout the top and middle level leadership without which the Talib foot soldier is nothing - these "leaders" do not just grow on trees, they represent years of training and indoctrination, take them out and we will have severed the head of the serpent. Then we can take on Talib and Alqaeeida without their highly trained and motivated leadership. It has to be done and whether you sympathize with the Talib or not, it will be done, it has to be done, just get used to it.

 

[pakdefender]

For the longest time, we did not acknowledge that Talib were using Waziristan to stage attacks in Afghanistan - then they started attacking Pakistan as well, and we then had to acknowledge that we have a problem here.

Lets imagine that Pakistan will publically say that they have now come to the conclusion that there is a Talib Shura in Quetta - what would the Pakistan govt then have to do?? -- It would have to go after the shura and their protection, isn' that so? and what then??

With Waziristan not a done deal, with Kyber, Kurram and other border agencies brewing, we would have yet another front?

Some friends (Batman) have missed "JOINTLY" planned drone attacks - these are great opportunity for Pakistan to takeout the top and middle level leadership without which the Talib foot soldier is nothing - these "leaders" do not just grow on trees, they represent years of training and indoctrination, take them out and we will have severed the head of the serpent. Then we can take on Talib and Alqaeeida without their highly trained and motivated leadership. It has to be done and whether you sympathize with the Talib or not, it will be done, it has to be done, just get used to it.

You still dont get it that Quetta is not like FATA , its home of Infintry School. Its Home to Command and Staff College , there can be no joint shoint operation in Quetta. If there is actionable intelegence , the Yanks will have to point it out and Pakistan Army can move against the target.

US drone attacks or US groud forces in the city will make the situation become very ugly very quickly.

You need to be associated with the Army to understand the bond that the officer corp of the military has with the place.

The problem with FATA has alsway been that it itself acted like a 'step child' , if you behave like a step child you get treated like that ( unfortunately ) , Quetta is not like that.

 

[graphican]

If USA is coming, they are not coming because few hundred thousand dic head Mullhas operate in Quetta. They want to destabilize us and then over the territory of Pakistan with all those excuses but for two major reasons.

1- Pakistan's Nukes: These could stop Israel when Israel would start expanding its borders ruthlessly between two rivers, River Euphrates in Syria and River Nile in Egypt. Israel believes Dajjal (Antichrist) would not arrive until their kingdom exists between these rivers and they are so desperate to make this happen.

2- China: The so obvious reason of USA to be here. They are patting India's back to go and bite China but before India could do so, they need to make Pakistan weak enough that we couldn't remain any worry for India and it could focus on China alone.

None of these reason have anything to do with Terrorists. Form Iraq, they wanted Oil and they got it. From Afghanistan, they wanted a huge base camp near China and Iran and they are building it. Terrorism is an excuse. When USA could hit Baitullah-Mehsood, why cannot they hit Usama, Amen-Alzawahri or any other so "wanted" terrorist??? Its simple they did what they wanted to and didn't what they didn't.

 

[muse]

No one is suggesting that there will be attacks on Quetta,

if you behave like a step child you get treated like that ( unfortunately ) , Quetta is not like that.

Unfortunately it's not about them being step anything, it's about Pakisgtani governemnt abdicating it's duty towards the nation. The situation should never have been allowed in the first place.

 

[muse]

Here we go: Yet another breakdown of trust - this is a relationship without a future, so as long as Pakistan can ensure that the Talib and Alqaeeda leadership can be targetted with US assiatance, it should avail the opportunity - Accusations, followed by Protests that "actionable intelligence" should it exist is welcome -- think about it, the govt of Pakistan is suggesting that the US may have more knowledge of events in Pakistan than the Govt of Pakistan.

Does Government of Pakistan have a plan to transform the substance of it's relationship with the US?? I think we can all agree that it has no such plan


Taliban launching activities from Quetta: US
Updated at: 1615 PST, Thursday, October 01, 2009
ISLAMABAD: US once again accused that Osama Bin Laden is alive and Taliban leadership including Mullah Omar is present in Quetta, Geo News reported Thursday.

Talking to media, Deputy Chief of the Mission, US Embassy Gerald M. Feierstein alleged that Osama is present in Pakistan, adding the command system of Taliban is based in Quetta and they are launching their activities from the suburbs of the city.

He urged the government of Pakistan to arrest Taliban leadership.

Gerald said success against Al-Qaeda was acquired in collaboration with Pakistan; however, a few Taliban leaders are still in Pakistan.

He said there is no US security firm including Blackwater in Pakistan, adding however, the embassy has taken 100 houses on rent for its staff in Islamabad.

Mullah Omar’s presence in Pakistan ‘mere speculation’: FO
Updated at: 2300 PST, Thursday, October 01, 2009
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s Foreign Office spokesman Abul Basit Thursday, rejecting the statement of US ambassador, said it is nothing but speculation that Mullah Omar is present in Pakistan.

The spokesman said Pakistan is ready to take any kind of action against the extremists.

“We have tried to make the US realize that issuing such statements will not serve any purpose, and if it has any actionable intelligence it must be shared with Pakistan,” he said.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No one is suggesting that there will be attacks on Quetta

Agree with that.

Unfortunately it's not about them being step anything, it's about Pakisgtani governemnt abdicating it's duty towards the nation. The situation should never have been allowed in the first place.

The Pakistani government, especially after the US decided to go start an unnecessary war under false pretenses, had to ensure it had some leverage in Afghanistan given that the Americans looked ready to once more abandon Afgahnistan.

And the Pakistani government (and people) did not realize how out of control the Taliban movement would become and how a nexus between the Afghan Taliban, Pakstani Taliban and Al Qaeda would pose a mortal threat to the country.

The situation is not one of 'abdicating responsibility', it has always been a question of ensuring Pakistan's back was covered while the US played around invading this and that country and showed no commitment to Afghanistan.

Gen. Musharraf's comments (and the DG ISI's in the interview with Ignatius) in that regard should be insightful - why would he, a man completely linked into Pakistan's strategic thinking and planning, call for more US troops and warn of dire consequences in case of the US minimizing its role in Afghanistan if the Pakistani establishment did not see the optimal course of action as one in which the Taliban insurgency was defeated?

Pakistan has tried different approaches on its side to deal with the insurgency (peace deals, bribes etc.), but I see that as (flawed given the results) genuine attempts to stop the insurgency without resort to force in an effort to not get into a long term military COIN commitment that would cost military and civilian lives.

The Afghan Taliban, if they are in Pakistan, have been ignored out of a combination of alliances with Taliban leaders that have been considered 'pro government', as well as a need to maintain contacts with influential figures in the Taliban were the US to run away again.

Assume Pakistan does know where Omar, the Haqqani's and Hekmetyar are, and takes them out - the Taliban movement will suffer setbacks but will not die, and if the US leaves or minimizes its role (ala after the Iraq invasion) without a strong Afghan government and stable Afghanistan, the Taliban will once more gain strength and Pakistan will now have no influence over them having been responsible for eliminating their leadership.

As Ingatius's article about the ISI suggests, Pakistan sees a strong and stable Afghanistan, even under the much reviled Karzai, as the most preferable option. We want to cooperate, we just aren't sure the US will commit to Afghanistan and not end up leaving us holding the bag and the long term cost if we do go all out against the Taliban.

If the Quetta Shura exists, it isn't going anywhere so long as Obama dithers and a long term US commitment to Afghanistan is in doubt.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Muse:

In relations to the 'deficit of trust' - Anne Patterson has said they have very little intelligence and no people on the ground in Baluchistan - yet she and her staff see fit to issue definitive statements about the 'Quetta Shura' and OBL himself.

Don't tell me you don't see the disconnect there.

The FO, Interior Minister, DG ISPR are all correct in asking the Americans, 'well then, where are they? Tell us so we can go get them'.

 

[muse]

Yes, I very much agree that the business of accusations is, to most observers, confusing -- I would like to focus on the Pakistani response, it is totally feeble.

Imagine the FO spokesman saying publically, that the government of Pakistan is determined to be rid of Talib and Al-Qaeeida and takes the US "suggestions" seriously and hopes the US will in conjunction with Pakistan authorities assist in investigating these claims.

Of course this investgation will require resources the US, if it is serious, should provide -- and then keep a media spot light on the investigation.

I agree that we cannot have a Iraq type search for WMD (I hope that reference is meaningful to you) and must be clear that we cannot have assertions such as "just because we did not find Mullah Omar or the talib Shura, does not mean that they are not there. Then let the chips fall where they will - let either Pakistan or the US take responsibility.

 

[rubyjackass]

Some times US says, Iran is helping Taliban, some times others but never US said it is india helping terrorist operating in Pakistan, despite the presence of much more compling evidences.

Please give links about US allegations and the 'compelling evidence'.