Will not roll back nuclear programme even if debts swell to $100 trillion: Dar

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

And who are you to give out morality certificates?

A guy who supports a Libyan dictator who used to personally torture and kill little boys? You can keep your certificate.


I think I agree with you. Without nukes the country might well be forced to implode by aggressors....but the other side to ask is ...have the nukes also given your leadership a carte Blanche to behave in ways they would not otherwise have? I mean has it allowed some sections to behave in ways that in the long term has been bad for Pakistan? Just a thought?

1999-2014 were Pakistan's worst years. With the onset of CPEC nearly a year ago things have definitely started to improve for Pakistan, in some cases dramatically. Pakistan will always remain an Islamic country with an Islamic ethos and heritage. Pakistanis in general will always be staunchly Muslims. The fact that some people may try to exploit this for their own ends is something that Pakistan will have to live with and ultimately evolve on how to best deal with.

 

[The Eagle]

Statement by Dar clearly indicates about the financial threat by the world only subject to our N program. Indeed the debit wouldn't be rise up-to quoted amount and in itself, it shows commitment of Pakistan towards our N capability. The N will be there as long as our enemies posses the same. No matter what, the program will be carried on and will grow more even if needed though such threats or conspiracy of our enemy through oldest friend wouldn't work like this.

Side note (Worst come worst): So also, if is there any negligence of current leadership which cause us more debit, wouldn't be accommodated against N program that to the some extent looks like some one is trying to hide his lack of administration or in love of Sari & Mango diplomacy.

The timing is critical and to be noted as where there is a sign of growth in Pakistan towards betterment and improved finance, such low-category news pops-up so often and the same is needed to be treated as a political statement by the current leadership though the commitment with N program was,is and never will be compromised nor does need such affirmations as well.

 

[Sky lord]

1999-2014 were Pakistan's worst years. With the onset of CPEC nearly a year ago things have definitely started to improve for Pakistan, in some cases dramatically. Pakistan will always remain an Islamic country with an Islamic ethos and heritage. Pakistanis in general will always be staunchly Muslims. The fact that some people may try to exploit this for their own ends is something that Pakistan will have to live with and ultimately evolve on how to best deal with.

OK , of course Pakistan was created as an Islamic country and should and no doubt will always reMain one -

What I was saying in a round about way was that - obviously there are advantages to having nukes - no argument on that BUT it has also in the recent past emboldened some sections of your leadership to tAke risks and behave in ways that has been detrimental for Pakistan - so has the NET effect of nukes been good or bad?

Of course that is your call to make as Pakistanis certainly not mine, I was just mentioning in passing.

 

[Turingsage]

"Will not roll back nuclear programme even if debts swell to $100 trillion: Dar"

Beware of what you wish for .

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Makes you wonder what sort of lunatics are incharge of Pakistan. These bloody economic hit men run nations dry from within. Are you going to pay all this debt Mr Dar that you are so rapidly increasing over the shoulders of this nation? What will happen if we are unable to pay the repayments on interest of this ever increasing debt? Those who are giving you the money are just waiting for such time and you default, they can ask for anything or everything in return including our nuke program.

In 2000, the American neo cons produced an article with a hit list of many Muslim nations that they intended to destroy. Apart from 2 nations, all those nations have been destroyed and plunged into an abyss. The 2 nations that have not yet been attacked are Pakistan and Iran. Part of the reason why Pakistan was not invaded by the americans was because of our nuclear weapons and the fact that Pakistan allegedly possess the "best terrorist guerrilla fighters in the world" in large numbers who would inflict heavy and unacceptable damage on an invading American military force (even if our conventional military completely failed). If Pakistan was weak and vulnerable our fate would have been the same as that of the millions of innocent Iraqis and Afghans killed by the americans between 2001-2014 (may their souls RIP). So YES, being in debt of over a $100 trillion dollars is not as bad as NOT having nuclear weapons as far as Pakistan is concerned.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank the countless patriotic and selfless Pakistani men and women who for over 45 years have in one way or another helped Pakistan to become the world's first ever Muslim nuclear weapons state and ensured our survival from evil foreign invaders. The Pakistani nation and diaspora around the world can never ever thank you enough for your hard work and sacrifice.

Peace out.

OK , of course Pakistan was created as an Islamic country and should and no doubt will always reMain one -

What I was saying in a round about way was that - obviously there are advantages to having nukes - no argument on that BUT it has also in the recent past emboldened some sections of your leadership to tAke risks and behave in ways that has been detrimental for Pakistan - so has the NET effect of nukes been good or bad?

Of course that is your call to make as Pakistanis certainly not mine, I was just mentioning in passing.

Of course that has happened. But that pales in comparison to the consequences of Pakistan not having nuclear weapons. A very good example is what happened to Iraq at the hands of the americans between 2003-12. That situation completely justified the Pakistan military's pursuit of nukes and other high-tech military hardware. If Iraq's military was as strong & powerful as Pakistan's than they would not have been destroyed and ISIS would not be rampaging across the Middle East.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Maybe people just like you who base their words and deeds upon wild headlines rather than substance?

I don't suffer fools specially the zionists.

In 2000, the American neo cons produced an article with a hit list of many Muslim nations that they intended to destroy. Apart from 2 nations, all those nations have been destroyed and plunged into an abyss. The 2 nations that have not yet been attacked are Pakistan and Iran. Part of the reason why Pakistan was not invaded by the americans was because of our nuclear weapons and the fact that Pakistan allegedly possess the "best terrorist guerrilla fighters in the world" in large numbers who would inflict heavy and unacceptable damage on an invading American military force (even if our conventional military completely failed). If Pakistan was weak and vulnerable our fate would have been the same as that of the millions of innocent Iraqis and Afghans killed by the americans between 2001-2014 (may their souls RIP). So YES, being in debt of over a $100 trillion dollars is not as bad as NOT having nuclear weapons as far as Pakistan is concerned.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank the countless patriotic and selfless Pakistani men and women who for over 45 years have in one way or another helped Pakistan to become the world's first ever Muslim nuclear weapons state and ensured our survival from evil foreign invaders. The Pakistani nation and diaspora around the world can never ever thank you enough for your hard work and sacrifice.

Peace out.



Of course that has happened. But that pales in comparison to the consequences of Pakistan not having nuclear weapons. A very good example is what happened to Iraq at the hands of the americans between 2003-12. That situation completely justified the Pakistan military's pursuit of nukes and other high-tech military hardware. If Iraq's military was as strong & powerful as Pakistan's than they would not have been destroyed and ISIS would not be rampaging across the Middle East.

The problem is that people are not realising that this present PML (N) government and the finance Minister Ishaq Dar, I would call him economic hit men of IMF are accumulating the debt at a pace by that within two years or so Pakistan external debt will surpass the threshold of 100 billions dollars. I am not a economist but major Pakistani economist have started raising alarm bells that once that threshold is reached Pakistan will not be able to pay the interest on repayments. Which only lead to one thing which is the state as a whole defaulting. After that all hell will break lose and those creditors including IMF can call upon anything they like. Questions will be raised as to how a defaulter state can keep this huge stoke pile of nukes? Who gonna pay for the maintenance and safety of nukes? Which ofcourse in turn will lead us to the age old question the west and America has been projecting, the safety of Pakistani nukes.
Apparently Dar was grilled by the "security establishment " in recent meeting of the top civilian and military leadership for exactly the same reason, mounting unexplained debts, and their potential to be used as weapon against Pakistan and it's strategic assets. This is a genuine concern of major stake holders of the country and if this Mr Ishaq Dar think he can hoodwink the state into this trap, he will pay dearly.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I don't suffer fools specially the zionists.



The problem is that people are not realising that this present PML (N) government and the finance Minister Ishaq Dar, I would call him economic hit men of IMF are accumulating the debt at a pace by that within two years or so Pakistan external debt will surpass the threshold of 100 billions dollars. I am not a economist but major Pakistani economist have started raising alarm bells that once that threshold is reached Pakistan will not be able to pay the interest on repayments. Which only lead to one thing which is the state as a whole defaulting. After that all hell will break lose and those creditors including IMF can call upon anything they like. Questions will be raised as to how a defaulter state can keep this huge stoke pile of nukes? Who gonna pay for the maintenance and safety of nukes? Which ofcourse in turn will lead us to the age old question the west and America has been projecting, the safety of Pakistani nukes.
Apparently Dar was grilled by the "security establishment " in recent meeting of the top civilian and military leadership for exactly the same reason, mounting unexplained debts, and their potential to be used as weapon against Pakistan and it's strategic assets. This is a genuine concern of major stake holders of the country and if this Mr Ishaq Dar think he can hoodwink the state into this trap, he will pay dearly.

By that rationality, Pakistan should never ever have had nuclear weapons because we never ever had the funds to start our nuclear weapons programs in the 1st place. They were provided by certain external benefactors who benefit from Pakistan having nukes. And they will continue to do so for their own security. Ever wondered why israel has never attacked Saudi Arabia even though they have fought against ever other major Arab power?

Despite all of this, I would rather Pakistan go bankrupt than end up like Iraq 2003-12 at the hands of the americans.

 

[Viper0011.]

The problem is that people are not realising that this present PML (N) government and the finance Minister Ishaq Dar, I would call him economic hit men of IMF are accumulating the debt at a pace by that within two years or so Pakistan external debt will surpass the threshold of 100 billions dollars..

Garbage senseless post. Just to answer the bold part, "They are taking the DEBT because you and 99% of your ENTIRE nation wasn't paying taxes". Now go back file your taxes for the past 70 years as a nation (even at a marginal level) and I can ASSURE you, your 80% of the debt would be paid off!!!!!

This is a nation where people have become multi billionaires by avoiding taxes and stealing from the government!!!! You guys didn't give the money needed to build these projects in the first place. Why bit*ch about it when someone wants to actually do the work and in order to jump start a dead economic engine they need to borrow money so they can re-build the engine and get it going???? Take your own and your national responsibility and trust me, 10 years from now, you won't need loans, and the ones you are taking right now, they would start to pay off HEAVY starting mid-late 2018 as a lot of projects will start to go live and generate income.

This isn't a big deal, if this money was being thrown in the water or trash, I'd be worried. But not seeing actual projects getting done, half of which, weren't even conceptualized across the past 70 years!!

 

[Taimoor Khan]

By that rationality, Pakistan should never ever have had nuclear weapons because we never ever had the funds to start our nuclear weapons programs in the 1st place. They were provided by certain external benefactors who benefit from Pakistan having nukes. And they will continue to do so for their own security. Ever wondered why israel has never attacked Saudi Arabia even though they have fought against ever other major Arab power?

Despite all of this, I would rather Pakistan go bankrupt than end up like Iraq 2003-12 at the hands of the americans.

It's a trap that we are allowing ourselves to be sucked into and mark my words these debts will become unmanageable if Dar and Co are not stopped one way or other. It's not me saying this, this has been raised with PML (n) government by the top security establishment. We will be fool relying on any forigen beneficiaries specially after seeing how things are panning out in middle East. There is no gaurrentte what will happen. SA are now starting to have all sorts of bombing going off every now and then, which was unheard until recently.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Garbage senseless post. Just to answer the bold part, "They are taking the DEBT because you and 99% of your ENTIRE nation wasn't paying taxes". Now go back file your taxes for the past 70 years as a nation (even at a marginal level) and I can ASSURE you, your 80% of the debt would be paid off!!!!!

This is a nation where people have become multi billionaires by avoiding taxes and stealing from the government!!!! You guys didn't give the money needed to build these projects in the first place. Why bit*ch about it when someone wants to actually do the work and in order to jump start a dead economic engine they need to borrow money so they can re-build the engine and get it going???? Take your own and your national responsibility and trust me, 10 years from now, you won't need loans, and the ones you are taking right now, they would start to pay off HEAVY starting mid-late 2018 as a lot of projects will start to go live and generate income.

This isn't a big deal, if this money was being thrown in the water or trash, I'd be worried. But not seeing actual projects getting done, half of which, weren't even conceptualized across the past 70 years!!

Utter non sense. Do you even how Pakistan works? The working class do pay their taxes, its taken through them anyway they dont have choice, but it's the only the fat cows , the political elite , the feudals who avoid paying their dues becuase if they do their I'll gotten money will get exposed. It's a very convinent setup between the these Pakistani local economic hit men and forigen lenders where one is sucking the state dry from within and other is pilling up debt which are gladly excepted by these local partners in crime. Net result is the state is digging deep into the debt trap. Since when debts have resolved Pakistan economic woes in past that it will, according to you in next couple of years? What non sense. You think you are Allama and all those top economist in Pakistan are fools who are raising alarm bells with this rising and unprecedented level of borrowing?

 

[DesiGuy1403]

@ito , get the indian establishment/government to talk of ending its own nuclear weapons program and then you will have the moral authority to talk about pakistan's program.

sadly, you have created a troll thread.

Spoken like a true "indian"

 

[Indika]

Chinese would be glad to finance the program and help you become another >NK.
nuke nuke every where but not a watt of power.

 

[Viper0011.]

Utter non sense. Do you even how Pakistan works? The working class do pay their taxes, its taken through them anyway they dont have choice, but it's the only the fat cows , the political elite , the feudals who avoid paying their dues becuase if they do their I'll gotten money will get exposed.

It's a very convinent setup between the these Pakistani local economic hit men and forigen lenders where one is sucking the state dry from within and other is pilling up debt which are gladly excepted by these local partners in crime. Net result is the state is digging deep into the debt trap. Since when debts have resolved Pakistan economic woes in past that it will, according to you in next couple of years? What non sense. You think you are Allama and all those top economist in Pakistan are fools who are raising alarm bells with this rising and unprecedented level of borrowing?

Utter nonsense?? Truth hurts huh? Let's see, as of the most recent estimates done at the end of 2015, ONLY 2 PERCENT of the population (2% so you can see it clearly) pays taxes and its the poor class where the pay check comes from a company so you have no choice. And you used the word "forced" to pay taxes due to it being a paycheck, that right there tells me your mentality. Tax is a "forced" upon thing to Pakistanis, who are so used to not paying them. Unless you or your father worked as an employee, the chances are you and him, are also behind taxes in Pakistan all their lives they worked in Pakistan.

You guys don't consider it a national responsibility. Instead you guys look at it as if its "enforced" upon you. How sad. But people like you, will have the moral authority to complain about the work being done through loans. Not towards the fact that all Pakistanis need to pay taxes.

At the end of the day, I end up paying about 55-60% of tax on my income due to my bracket, and property taxes, etc. But you know what? I am very much ok with it. Because with my taxes, the City and the State will build nicer roads, better schools for my children, better hospitals for my healthcare needs and better security for my and my family's safety, and a better defense for my country . This is just ONE of my national obligations and I am happy to fulfill it. In return, the country takes care of me and my family.

On calling others "economic hitmen"........what proofs do you have sitting in the UK paying taxes there, but evading them in Pakistan. And you'll think that you have the moral authority to call someone a thief but you'd forget your own past that how many rich people within your own family evaded taxes, electric bills and all and paid BRIBE instead of TAXES!!!!

Go read this sad story somewhere else. What is more confusing, is when you guys get to the UK or the US, and if you do get decent jobs, you guys pay taxes. And the cheaters try to abuse welfare in these countries, instead of working hard.

The only fools are raising alarm bells is on this forum and some like IK, who, if you ask about tax brackets, would tell you something like "each bracket should have 10 overs of my super fast balls" . The question would then become, which ast balls? The one's that didn't exist and the other party realized it very fast and went back to England (two parties actually)?? You have leaders who have no clue about governance, they have basic imagination and its not clear, so they blame others. Blaming others for everything doesn't get you the government or makes you successful leader, its still shows lack of maturity.

Stop spreading rumors. Go pay your family's taxes dating back to however long they lived in Pakistan (like 60 years or so)?? So when you've fulfilled your NATIONAL obligation towards your country, you then have the moral authority to say anything about debt, as at that point, if everyone paid their taxes for the past sixty years, the real question would become, everyone paid their taxes, why the debt???? But everyone isn't 2% of the labor class which comes to middle-income and lower income families. Its needs to be the entire nation doing their part, before having the moral obligation to question debt and all, for which, you didn't participate as a nation to begin with.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Utter nonsense?? Truth hurts huh? Let's see, as of the most recent estimates done at the end of 2015, ONLY 2 PERCENT of the population (2% so you can see it clearly) pays taxes and its the poor class where the pay check comes from a company so you have no choice. And you used the word "forced" to pay taxes due to it being a paycheck, that right there tells me your mentality. Tax is a "forced" upon thing to Pakistanis, who are so used to not paying them. Unless you or your father worked as an employee, the chances are you and him, are also behind taxes in Pakistan all their lives they worked in Pakistan.

You guys don't consider it a national responsibility. Instead you guys look at it as if its "enforced" upon you. How sad. But people like you, will have the moral authority to complain about the work being done through loans. Not towards the fact that all Pakistanis need to pay taxes.

At the end of the day, I end up paying about 55-60% of tax on my income due to my bracket, and property taxes, etc. But you know what? I am very much ok with it. Because with my taxes, the City and the State will build nicer roads, better schools for my children, better hospitals for my healthcare needs and better security for my and my family's safety, and a better defense for my country . This is just ONE of my national obligations and I am happy to fulfill it. In return, the country takes care of me and my family.

On calling others "economic hitmen"........what proofs do you have sitting in the UK paying taxes there, but evading them in Pakistan. And you'll think that you have the moral authority to call someone a thief but you'd forget your own past that how many rich people within your own family evaded taxes, electric bills and all and paid BRIBE instead of TAXES!!!!

Go read this sad story somewhere else. What is more confusing, is when you guys get to the UK or the US, and if you do get decent jobs, you guys pay taxes. And the cheaters try to abuse welfare in these countries, instead of working hard.

The only fools are raising alarm bells is on this forum and some like IK, who, if you ask about tax brackets, would tell you something like "each bracket should have 10 overs of my super fast balls" . The question would then become, which ast balls? The one's that didn't exist and the other party realized it very fast and went back to England (two parties actually)?? You have leaders who have no clue about governance, they have basic imagination and its not clear, so they blame others. Blaming others for everything doesn't get you the government or makes you successful leader, its still shows lack of maturity.

Stop spreading rumors. Go pay your family's taxes dating back to however long they lived in Pakistan (like 60 years or so)?? So when you've fulfilled your NATIONAL obligation towards your country, you then have the moral authority to say anything about debt, as at that point, if everyone paid their taxes for the past sixty years, the real question would become, everyone paid their taxes, why the debt???? But everyone isn't 2% of the labor class which comes to middle-income and lower income families. Its needs to be the entire nation doing their part, before having the moral obligation to question debt and all, for which, you didn't participate as a nation to begin with.

What truth? I am from Karachi and its population is definitely more then 2% of Pakistan and majority of karachite pay their taxes being from working middle class.

Ah the emotional blackmail! Listen sunshine and listen very carefully. The term "Tax Net" which is quite often used in western civilization, is in itself very offensive as if the citizens are the catches and state is netting them into taxes. You pay your taxes willingly, good on you, I am not here to judge you, but there is also a term called "bloody tax man" that I have heard often while living in UK. The "tax man" is probably the most hated person along side traffic warden. Majority of people who live in western civilization DO NOT want to pay their taxes but they are "forced" to pay through their noses because the "tax net" is as such, there is no escape from it. It is just the basic human nature, whatever you earn, you want to keep every penny of it to yourself. without going into the debate as to what is right and wrong. Now coming back to the argument, in Pakistan the problem is that tax net is not efficient at all which doesnt catch the big fishes. When you have a PM who only pay few thousands Rupees in taxes, then what else is there to say.

The problem with your kind is that when out of argument , start jumping onto personal issues. Me and my family paying taxes in UK or in Pakistan is non of your concerns, you are not my financial adviser to whom I have share my tax returns with. Stay on the topic will ya?

woo woo hold your horse son. IK ? where did he come into this debate? Are you suffering from IKPhobia like most of NOORAs? Put your reading glasses on and READ my previous comments. It is the eminent economists in Pakistan through their articles in media are raising their concerns about this ever grown debt and the rate and speed at which the borrowing is going on lately.

Lastly, you very conveniently avoided my question, as it seems you are quite adamant in believing that somehow this debt burden will usher the era of prosperity in Pakistan in coming years. Since when debts have resolved Pakistan economic woes in past that it will now? What is different now? High highness Nawaz Shareef and brother in law Mr Dar in charge of financial affaris of the country? I am all ears.

Again, try to avoid getting personal, as that is something I can easily do as well, but that will derail the topic and we dont want that to happen do we?

 

[MystryMan]

If Tax net is small or people evade income tax, then its duty of Govt to collect the tax or impose the tax if the income is not taxable.
But Ishaq Dar school of Finance say to levy the Indirect Tax on commodities which are being used by ordinary people of this country causing prices and poverty level to go up. While the Powerfull and rich people avoids paying Income tax and this govt is not able to do anything against them but is ready to tax the ordinary man more by in-direct taxation (withholding taxes, surcharges, increase rate of GST etc).