Wikileaks revelations - realistic view of our army

[Malik Usman]

This is nice story to tell to childrens in bed time...........from above all ...where you will fit all the followings:

Pakistan Army Declared No.1 Army.FLV - YouTube

Also not to mentioned.....check success rate of NATO and US Army (around 50 Countries Militaries) in Afghanistan and on the other side just One Army against Talibans...

 

[Storm Force]

I HAVE ALWAYS FELT & MAINTAINED ANY NATIONS MILITARY is AND CAN be judged ON HOW the rest of your country is run /managed / successful.

these key indicators tell us about leadership/direction/atittude/ learning curves etc.

AREAS i look at include education/ diplomacy / leadership/ economy/ technology and alliances/ respect globally

THERE IS NOT ONE AREA ABOVE WHERE pakistanis can admit to being GOOD or even above average/

Its failure after failure...

SO how can you possibly have a world class military

FORGET GLOBAL FIRE POWER the wordl class militaries are the word class GDP NATIONS. richiest western nations and the new kids rising like china brazil etc.

your a develping nation with limited resources and your mil;itary wil be handicapped as such

 

[Alpha1]

Congrats and welcome new guy! My first post and thread were also considered a fiery entery!
Im the only member on PDF whose introductory thread was 20 pages long!

 

[Albatross]

Whats more interesting is this is his first post

hes a pakistani so no surprises...this land is very fertile...

 

[Albatross]

It's good that something we already suspected came with some evidence. No army is better than its nation's economy and sadly despite the warrior spirit of our nation's armed forces our economy and 'allies' would doom us in battle as they have done so repeatedly!

Well you are absolutely wrong dude despite all the world against us our army did well if not excellent but as they say there is always room for more improvement..I would agree had economic front would have more smooth things would have been lot better..

Repeatedly??? 65 wrote the history of bravery for our soldiers there were some calculation mistakes on TOP but the officers and ranks on front fought like no other army in the world could have...71 was a political mistake n enemy took advantage...99 kargil was again a mistake from TOP where army cant be blamed what our few hundred soldiers did it costed india 20 billion dollars which will be around 80-90 billion dollars of today....

Be truthful to your heart nomatter even if you are a false flagger or someone whoz in captivity of negativity...

Our army broke one superpower a dew decades ago n is engaged with the remaing one for last few years so what else you need ???

At numerous occassions our army won gold medals in defferent toughness and ability contests

Here is one examplehttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\10\21\story_21-10-2010_pg7_18

 

[Gentelman]

Congrats and welcome new guy! My first post and thread were also considered a fiery entery!
Im the only member on PDF whose introductory thread was 20 pages long!

you must be generous..

 

[MastanKhan]

Congrats and welcome new guy! My first post and thread were also considered a fiery entery!
Im the only member on PDF whose introductory thread was 20 pages long!

Senor,

Don't dwell on that----race is not to the swift but to the consistant.

 

[MastanKhan]

I HAVE ALWAYS FELT & MAINTAINED ANY NATIONS MILITARY is AND CAN be judged ON HOW the rest of your country is run /managed / successful.

these key indicators tell us about leadership/direction/atittude/ learning curves etc.

AREAS i look at include education/ diplomacy / leadership/ economy/ technology and alliances/ respect globally

THERE IS NOT ONE AREA ABOVE WHERE pakistanis can admit to being GOOD or even above average/

Its failure after failure...

SO how can you possibly have a world class military

FORGET GLOBAL FIRE POWER the wordl class militaries are the word class GDP NATIONS. richiest western nations and the new kids rising like china brazil etc.

your a develping nation with limited resources and your mil;itary wil be handicapped as such

Sir,

It is not the size of the dog that counts---but the fight in the dog---.

 

[jaibi]

Well you are absolutely wrong dude despite all the world against us our army did well if not excellent but as they say there is always room for more improvement..I would agree had economic front would have more smooth things would have been lot better..

Repeatedly??? 65 wrote the history of bravery for our soldiers there were some calculation mistakes on TOP but the officers and ranks on front fought like no other army in the world could have...71 was a political mistake n enemy took advantage...99 kargil was again a mistake from TOP where army cant be blamed what our few hundred soldiers did it costed india 20 billion dollars which will be around 80-90 billion dollars of today....

Be truthful to your heart nomatter even if you are a false flagger or someone whoz in captivity of negativity...

Our army broke one superpower a dew decades ago n is engaged with the remaing one for last few years so what else you need ???

At numerous occassions our army won gold medals in defferent toughness and ability contests

Here is one exampleDaily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Dude, you seem to have misunderstood the intent behind my post. I love our military and I will be a part of it as a Psychologist this year, Inshallah. I know how valient our soldiers are; no one doubts that. I assure you. However, sir, our armed forces are NOT a separate entity from our nation. I'm talking about a more holistic analysis, for example in 1965 our ammunations ran low and thus we HAD to come to the negotiations. 1971 showed that a strategic failure leads to losing the war even when we won a lot of battles! I know because my maternal-grandfather (late) fought these two wars and even got wounded (he lost his right knee forever).

We've great soldiers, great talent but we lose because as a system and do recall that modern warfare is a very complex and integrated system of social institutions; thus, as long as these systems (economy, civil service, media power etc.,) are not at par to the courage of our men in khaki, blue and white we are not at a 100% and thus we'd eventually suffer in a long drawn conflict.

That's my point of view. We cannot rely on the US or even China for our military supplies or tech; we need allow a great defence industry to flourish that collaborates both the civilian and govermental fronts (like that of the US). I assure you we've no dearth of talent here; just that the systems here are very traditionalistic and do not allow the flexibility that is required by innovation and great progression.

So buddy, I'm a great supporter of our armed forces but we need to be realistic of our strenghts and acknowledge our flaws in order to flourish and be the best!

 

[somebozo]

Pak Army capabilities have drowned in cold water after years of incompetence in tacking few rag tag terrorist, inability to trace OBL santury right next to Kakul and striking peace deals with terrorist!

 

[niaz]

I have family friends whose son was killed in the SSG Operation at Karachi airport when Pam 747 was hijacked at Karachi on September 5, 1986. The wife who survived the attack with minor injuries was highly critical and said there were only 4 hijackers but the SSG rescue attempt resulted in 22 deaths and more than 150 injured.

I am forced to conclude that even after 1971 debacle where the coward Niazi surrendered without really fighting, Army high command has not reformed itself. Kargil episode and now fighting with the Taliban has exposed the vulnerabilities of armed services. For example have we forgotten that 243 Pakistan soldiers surrendered to Taliban on Dec 4, 2009!

Terrorists ambushed Karachi Corps Commander convoy on June 11, 2004. Army GHQ was attacked in October 2009 followed by May 2011 attack on Mehran base and August 16 2012 attack on Kamra.

Let us forget about Indian Army or the US, even the home grown ragtag Taliban have no fear of the Pakistan army, that is why they behead PA jawans with impunity and also release the video boasting their achievement.

It is clear that no matter how much we praise our glorious army, don’t think that rest of the world looks at them with the same coloured glass. Also let us not harp on 1965. That was nearly 50 years ago when the whole nation was united. We have since lost half of country. It is 2013; now we think that our nukes are the panacea for all ills.

I don’t mean to denigrate our armed forces but we seem to remain in a state of denial. Unless we diligently undergo introspection, how we are ever going to put the things right?

 

[Hyperion]

Well said brother!

I have family friends whose son was killed in the SSG Operation at Karachi airport when Pam 747 was hijacked at Karachi on September 5, 1986. The wife who survived the attack with minor injuries was highly critical and said there were only 4 hijackers but the SSG rescue attempt resulted in 22 deaths and more than 150 injured.

I am forced to conclude that even after 1971 debacle where the coward Niazi surrendered without really fighting, Army high command has not reformed itself. Kargil episode and now fighting with the Taliban has exposed the vulnerabilities of armed services. For example have we forgotten that 243 Pakistan soldiers surrendered to Taliban on Dec 4, 2009!

Terrorists ambushed Karachi Corps Commander convoy on June 11, 2004. Army GHQ was attacked in October 2009 followed by May 2011 attack on Mehran base and August 16 2012 attack on Kamra.

Let us forget about Indian Army or the US, even the home grown ragtag Taliban have no fear of the Pakistan army, that is why they behead PA jawans with impunity and also release the video boasting their achievement.

It is clear that no matter how much we praise our glorious army, don’t think that rest of the world looks at them with the same coloured glass. Also let us not harp on 1965. That was nearly 50 years ago when the whole nation was united. We have since lost half of country. It is 2013; now we think that our nukes are the panacea for all ills.

I don’t mean to denigrate our armed forces but we seem to remain in a state of denial. Unless we diligently undergo introspection, how we are ever going to put the things right?

 

[haviZsultan]

I have family friends whose son was killed in the SSG Operation at Karachi airport when Pam 747 was hijacked at Karachi on September 5, 1986. The wife who survived the attack with minor injuries was highly critical and said there were only 4 hijackers but the SSG rescue attempt resulted in 22 deaths and more than 150 injured.

I am forced to conclude that even after 1971 debacle where the coward Niazi surrendered without really fighting, Army high command has not reformed itself. Kargil episode and now fighting with the Taliban has exposed the vulnerabilities of armed services. For example have we forgotten that 243 Pakistan soldiers surrendered to Taliban on Dec 4, 2009!

Terrorists ambushed Karachi Corps Commander convoy on June 11, 2004. Army GHQ was attacked in October 2009 followed by May 2011 attack on Mehran base and August 16 2012 attack on Kamra.

Let us forget about Indian Army or the US, even the home grown ragtag Taliban have no fear of the Pakistan army, that is why they behead PA jawans with impunity and also release the video boasting their achievement.

It is clear that no matter how much we praise our glorious army, don’t think that rest of the world looks at them with the same coloured glass. Also let us not harp on 1965. That was nearly 50 years ago when the whole nation was united. We have since lost half of country. It is 2013; now we think that our nukes are the panacea for all ills.

I don’t mean to denigrate our armed forces but we seem to remain in a state of denial. Unless we diligently undergo introspection, how we are ever going to put the things right?

Very solid post.... precisely why you belong where you are. This is true. I try not to point these things out so often because I support ideas people don't like such as secularism so it opens the floodgates to being called things like "traitor." I think these issues should be pointed out so that they are resolved.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I have family friends whose son was killed in the SSG Operation at Karachi airport when Pam 747 was hijacked at Karachi on September 5, 1986. The wife who survived the attack with minor injuries was highly critical and said there were only 4 hijackers but the SSG rescue attempt resulted in 22 deaths and more than 150 injured.

I am forced to conclude that even after 1971 debacle where the coward Niazi surrendered without really fighting, Army high command has not reformed itself. Kargil episode and now fighting with the Taliban has exposed the vulnerabilities of armed services. For example have we forgotten that 243 Pakistan soldiers surrendered to Taliban on Dec 4, 2009!

Terrorists ambushed Karachi Corps Commander convoy on June 11, 2004. Army GHQ was attacked in October 2009 followed by May 2011 attack on Mehran base and August 16 2012 attack on Kamra.

Let us forget about Indian Army or the US, even the home grown ragtag Taliban have no fear of the Pakistan army, that is why they behead PA jawans with impunity and also release the video boasting their achievement.

It is clear that no matter how much we praise our glorious army, don’t think that rest of the world looks at them with the same coloured glass. Also let us not harp on 1965. That was nearly 50 years ago when the whole nation was united. We have since lost half of country. It is 2013; now we think that our nukes are the panacea for all ills.

I don’t mean to denigrate our armed forces but we seem to remain in a state of denial. Unless we diligently undergo introspection, how we are ever going to put the things right?

Excellent post Sir

There is no doubt that Pakistan Army has been fighting this insurgency with kids gloves on their hand. They have not even used 10% of their force in putting this menace down. Where they did use force e.g Swat and South Waziristan, TTP was in retreat and was scattered all round. But PA didn't bother conducting follow up operations, result: TTP was able to stage a comeback. The capability and the training is there, its only the will that is missing. Our Army and we as a nation have still not accepted the fact that we are at war and this is our war now. There are still many people in Pakistan whom consider Taliban to be freedom fighters of Islam and TTP to be a creation of RAW/MOSSAD/CIA.