What's new

WikiLeaks Cables Show a Saudi Obsession With Iran

F117

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
693
Reaction score
0
Country
Iran, Islamic Republic Of
Location
Netherlands
WikiLeaks Cables Show a Saudi Obsession With Iran
By BEN HUBBARD and MAYY EL SHEIKHJULY 16, 2015

17saudicables-1-master675.jpg


An image of King Salman of Saudi Arabia on a Riyadh street in May. Credit Tomas Munita for The New York Times
BEIRUT, Lebanon — For decades, Saudi Arabia has poured billions of its oil dollars into sympathetic Islamic organizations around the world, quietly practicing checkbook diplomacy to advance its agenda.

But a trove of thousands of Saudi documents recently released by WikiLeaks reveals in surprising detail how the government’s goal in recent years was not just to spread its strict version of Sunni Islam — though that was a priority — but also to undermine its primary adversary: Shiite Iran.

The documents from Saudi Arabia’s Foreign Ministry illustrate a near obsession with Iran, with diplomats in Africa, Asia and Europe monitoring Iranian activities in minute detail and top government agencies plotting moves to limit the spread of Shiite Islam.

The scope of this global oil-funded operation helps explain the kingdom’s alarm at the deal reached on Tuesday between world powers and Iran over its nuclear program. Saudi leaders worry that relief from sanctions will give Iran more money to strengthen its militant proxies. But the documents reveal a depth of competition that is far more comprehensive, with deep roots in the religious ideologies that underpin the two nations.

Photo
17saudicables-2-master180.jpg


A cable from the Saudi Embassy in Pakistan noting that the president of the International Islamic University of Islamabad had invited the Iranian ambassador to a cultural week on campus.
The documents indicate an extensive apparatus inside the Saudi government dedicated to missionary activity that brings in officials from the Foreign, Interior and Islamic Affairs Ministries; the intelligence service and the office of the king.

Recent initiatives have included putting foreign preachers on the Saudi payroll; building mosques, schools and study centers; and undermining foreign officials and news media deemed threatening to the kingdom’s agenda.

At times, the king got involved, ordering an Iranian television station off the air or granting $1 million to an Islamic association in India.

“We are talking about thousands and thousands of activist organizations and preachers who are in the Saudi sphere of influence because they are directly or indirectly funded by them,” said Usama Hasan, a senior researcher in Islamic studies at the Quilliam Foundation in London. “It has been a huge factor, and the Saudi influence is undeniable.”

While the documents do not show any Saudi support for militant activity, critics argue that the kingdom’s campaign against Shiites — and its promotion of a strict form of Islam — has eroded pluralism in the Muslim world and added to the tensions fueling conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and elsewhere.

The Saudi government has made no secret of its international religious mission, nor of its enmity toward Iran. But it has found the leaks deeply embarrassing and has told its citizens that spreading them is a crime.

While it has acknowledged a link between the documents and an electronic attack on the Foreign Ministry, it has said that some of the documents are fabricated. But many of them contain correct names and telephone numbers, and a number of individuals and associations named in them verified their contents when reached by reporters from The New York Times.

The trove mostly covers the period from 2010 to early 2015. It documents religious outreach coordinated by the Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, an interministerial body that King Salman dissolved in a government overhaul after his ascension this year.

The Foreign Ministry relayed funding requests to officials in Riyadh; the Interior Ministry and the intelligence agency sometimes vetted potential recipients; the Saudi-supported Muslim World League helped coordinate strategy; and Saudi diplomats across the globe oversaw projects. Together, these officials identified sympathetic Muslim leaders and associations abroad; distributed funds and religious literature produced in Saudi Arabia; trained preachers; and gave them salaries to work in their own countries.

One example of this is Sheikh Suhaib Hasan, an Indian Islamic scholar who was educated in Saudi Arabia and worked for the kingdom for four decades in Kenya and in Britain, where he helped found the Islamic Sharia Council, according to a cable from the Saudi Embassy in London whose contents were verified by his son, Mr. Hassan of the Quilliam Foundation.

Clear in many of the cables are Saudi fears of Iranian influence and of the spread of Shiite Islam.

The Saudi Embassy in Tehran sent daily reports on local news coverage of Saudi Arabia. One cable suggested the kingdom improve its image by starting a Persian-language television station and sending pro-Saudi preachers to tour Iran.

Other cables detailed worries that Iran sought to turn Tajikistan into “a center to export its religious revolution and to spread its ideology in the region’s countries.” The Saudi ambassador in Tajikistan suggested that Tajik officials could restrict Iranian support “if other sources of financial support become available, especially from the kingdom.”

Photo
17saudicables-3-master180.jpg


A cable from the Saudi Embassy in Budapest requesting funds to open Islamic centers.
The fear of Shiite influence extended to countries where Muslims are small minorities, like China, where a Saudi delegation was charged with “suggesting practical programs that can be carried out to confront Shiite expansion in China.” And documents from the Philippines, where only 5 percent of the population is Muslim, included suggested steps to “restrict the Iranian presence.”

In 2012, Saudi ambassadors from across Africa were told to file reports on Iranian activities in their countries. The Saudi ambassador to Uganda soon filed a detailed report on “Shiite expansion” in the mostly Christian country.

A cable from the predominantly Muslim nation of Mali warned that Iran was appealing to the local Muslims, who knew little of “the truth of the extremist, racist Shiite ideology that goes against all other Islamic schools.”

Many of those seeking funds referred to the Saudi-Iranian rivalry in their appeals, the cables showed.

One proposal from the Afghan Foundation in Afghanistan said that it needed funding because such projects “do not receive support from any entities, while others, especially Shiites, get a lot of aid from several places, including Iran.”

Reached in Kabul, the Afghan capital, one of the center’s founders, Wakil Ahmad Mutawakil, acknowledged that the group had appealed for Saudi funding but said that it had received none.

The kingdom has at times interfered directly with Iran’s outreach.

From 2010 to 2013, it tried multiple ways to force an Iranian Arabic-language satellite television station, Al Alam, off the air.

These efforts included issuing royal decrees aimed at stopping the broadcast, pressuring the Riyadh-based satellite provider Arabsat to drop the channel, and using “technical means” to weaken the channel’s signal so it did not reach Bahrain and eastern Saudi Arabia, where many Shiites complain of discrimination by their Sunni monarchs.

A Beirut-based manager of Al Alam acknowledged that the channel had faced Saudi pressure since 2010, which had succeeded in getting two Arab satellite providers to drop the channel.

“We are broadcasting normally” via European satellites, the manager said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss private company matters. “The only disruption we have is when we broadcast a show about Bahrain.”

Some of the cables reported on seemingly mundane events.

The Saudi Embassy in Sri Lanka reported a meeting between the Iranian ambassador and a group of religious scholars, noting that it began at 7:30 p.m.

Photo
17saudicables-4-master180.jpg


A cable from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Saudi Embassy in Tajikistan says the kingdom is surveying Iranian moves in Russia.
Elsewhere, the kingdom intervened against foreign officials it perceived as threats.

After the president of the International Islamic University of Islamabad in Pakistan, Mumtaz Ahmad, invited the Iranian ambassador to a cultural week on campus, the Saudi Embassy called Mr. Ahmad to express “its surprise,” according to one cable, suggesting that he invite the wife of the Saudi ambassador instead.

Mr. Ahmad refused to disinvite the Iranian ambassador, so Saudi diplomats suggested having Suliman Aba al-Khail, a Saudi academic with a position in the university’s administration, convene a board meeting and “choose a president for the university who is consistent with our orientation,” the cable said.

A faculty member at the university said that Mr. Ahmad, a political science professor with a doctorate from the University of Chicago, had clashed with conservative faculty members for trying to reduce Saudi influence on campus.

After Mr. Ahmad resigned as president in 2012, the Saudi ambassador worked with the president of Pakistan at the time, Asif Ali Zardari, to have a Saudi citizen named as university president, according the faculty member.

“In the end they won,” said the faculty member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity so as not to anger his employer.

Saudi Arabia has long invested in training foreign preachers, providing scholarships to international Muslim students to study Shariah at Saudi universities. The documents show that the kingdom gives some of them government salaries to work in their home countries. The cables named 14 new preachers to be employed in Guinea and said contracts had been signed with 12 others in Tajikistan.

Another cable said the Foreign Ministry was studying a request from an Islamic association near the Iranian border in Afghanistan to pay local preachers to spread Sunni Islam.

Some of the costliest projects were in India, which Saudi Arabia sees as a sectarian battleground.

Cables indicated that $266,000 had been granted to an Islamic association to open a nursing college; $133,000 had been used for an Islamic conference; and another grant went to a vocational training center for girls.

King Abdullah, who died in January, signed off on a $1 million gift to the Khaja Education Society, and a smaller amount went to a medical college run by Kerala Nadvathul Mujahideen.

A member of first group, Janab Moazam, confirmed that it had been granted the money and said that half had already been delivered. An official from the second group, Abdullah Koya Madani, confirmed that the group had received Saudi funding.

Even humanitarian relief is sometimes sectarian. In 2011, the Saudi foreign minister requested aid for flood victims in Thailand, noting that “it will have a positive impact on Muslims in Thailand and will restrict the Iranian government in expanding its Shiite influence.”

Elsewhere, Saudi Arabia sees its religious work as a way to improve its reputation. The Saudi ambassador to Hungary requested $54,000 per year for an Islamic association as well as for authorization to found a cultural center. One cable said such aid would undermine extremism and “play a positive role in portraying the beautiful and moderate image of the kingdom.”

Reporting was contributed by Hwaida Saad from Beirut; Karam Shoumali from Istanbul; Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan; Mujib Mashal from Kabul, Afghanistan; Suhasini Raj from New Delhi.
 
Nowadays everyone's obsessed with us . saudiz were like that for almost 1.3 thousand years .

no news here

Yes, this obsession (proxy war) does not work both ways and Iranians are not obsessed with Arabs either and doing the exact same things. That's right!:rofl: Come on. Even the article mentions that the Iranian regime are doing similar practices for God's sake! It's all about countering each other. In other words proxy wars.

The obsession is actually bigger the other way around as it were Arabs that conquered Iran 1400 years ago completely, ruled it for a very long time, changed the religion, language, alphabet, culture and settled in Iran in large numbers.

Today Iran is ruled by people who claim to be Arabs (Sadah families) and are trying to act more Arab than Arabs and who are meddling all over the Arab world.

In fact some of your Mullah officials were even ridiculously claiming that they are controlling 4 Arab capitals (Baghdad, Sana'a, Damascus & Beirut). As hilarious as that is.


The influence the other way around? Almost non-existent.

Trust me Arabs won't care about Iran when your Mullah's will reform or be toppled. In general when they quit their obsession about events in the Arab world. Arabs have no problems with sane Iranians and you might wonder why UAE is by far your largest trading partner although the trade is hugely one-sided in favor of UAE but that might change if Iran returns to the international community by acting sanely.

No need to make it this complicated. Before 1979 there were very few problems my Kurdish friend.

Both regimes are at fault and the people of the region. That's the harsh reality. It should change somehow.

Anyway Eid Mubarak.
 
Hmmm......They really tried to stir shit here.
Wahhabi? No thank you

In WikiLeaks, how Saudi Arabia wanted to match Iranian influence over India | The Indian Express
In WikiLeaks, how Saudi Arabia wanted to match Iranian influence over India
Written by Sushant Singh | New Delhi | Updated: June 24, 2015 10:49 am
The dump of diplomatic documents that these revelations are part of, allegedly from the Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA), were released by WikiLeaks on Friday.
Saudi Arabia is worried about Iran’s growing influence in India and Tehran’s outreach to the Shia community in the country, according to diplomatic documents released by WikiLeaks last week. Secretariat General of the Muslim World League (Mecca), a controversial organisation with terror funding links, had requested Saudi Arabia to establish the organisation’s Salafi/Wahhabi centres in India, the documents show. And while Riyadh desired to improve relations with India, it was also cognisant of issues that may be sensitive to Pakistan.

The dump of diplomatic documents that these revelations are part of, allegedly from the Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA), were released by WikiLeaks on Friday. These documents are in Arabic and provide a greater insight into Saudi Arabia’s thinking on India than the English-language ones, which feature routine diplomaticcommunications.

Rohan Joshi, US-based Fellow of The Takshashila Institution, who studied these Arabic-language documents, says, “While the English-language documents that appeared on WikiLeaks tended to be mundane diplomatic exchanges between the Indian Embassy in Riyadh and Saudi Arabia’s MOFA, the Arabic-language documents (many authored by Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in New Delhi) appear to underscore Saudi Arabia’s deep concern over Iran’s increased economic and cultural engagement with India and India’s Shia community.”

The information on increasing Iranian influence in India comes from two separate reports. The first one is from the Saudi Embassy in New Delhi, dated January 23, 2012; the other is from the Saudi MOFA. The date on the second memo is left blank; but going by the body of the report it appears to have been drafted in 2011-12.

Both these reports clearly show that the Saudis very closely monitor Iranian and Shia activity in India.

The January 2012 report (incomplete) from the Saudi Embassy in New Delhi harps on Iran’s growing influence in India by providing examples of outreach by Iran to Shia communities in the country. It gives examples of seminars and events organised in India by the Iranians. The report also talks about Iran’s plans to establish a large number of cultural centres in India.

As per the 2001 census, Muslims form 13.4 per cent of India’s population. Though no official numbers exist, Pew Research Center has estimated that 16 million to 24 million of India’s Muslims are of Shia denomination. Iran has had linguistic, cultural and historical ties with India which go back to the Mughal era. These relations have not been limited to Shias in India, and Iran’s ability to mine that familiarity and goodwill seems to be troubling the Saudis.

Unlike the Arab countries, differences between Shias and Sunnis in India are doctrinal, and mainly in areas such as ritual law, theology and religious organisation. Relations between the two sects in India have largely remained unaffected from the blowback of the violent conflicts unfolding in the Middle East.

The undated Saudi MOFA report is a partial review of India’s foreign policy in the region. It says that India considers itself a competitor to China and is cosy with the West, but there is a powerful lobby in India to maintain strategic independence in foreign policy. It dwells over Iran-India cooperation, especially in trade. India and Iran may work together in Afghanistan to curtain Pakistan’s influence after the US leaves, the Saudi MOFA report adds.

India has always maintained a friendly relationship with Iran, even after Western countries had imposed sanctions against Tehran for pursuing nuclear enrichment. Besides being a lead supplier of crude oil, a friendly Iran provides India with access to landlocked Afghanistan, which has been denied by Pakistan.

Another memo from the Saudi MOFA, written in 2010, harps on the importance and priority that Saudi Arabia places on improving relations with India. It also underscores the fact that the directive to improve relations with India does not contradict the need to take into account issues that may be sensitive to Pakistan.

Another (incomplete) document is on the establishment of a Salafi Centre in India is a request to Riyadh from the Secretariat General of the Muslim World League (Mecca). The date written isn’t clearly legible, but looks to be 2012. The league was looking to establish an institution called The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Centre for Salafi Studies in India, along with opening more such centres in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Muslim World League is a controversial Saudi government funded charity, which has earlier been linked with international terror financing.:angry:
 
@The Great One

India's largest trading partner is the GCC and Arab world. Trade and cultural relations between the Arab world (in particular the Arabian Peninsula) and India have existed for millenniums upon millenniums.

Trade and cultural links between ancient India and ancient Arabia date back to third millennium BC.[1]

  1. Heptulla, Nejma. Indo-West Asian relations: the Nehru era. Allied Publishers, 1991. ISBN 9788170233404.
That's 5000 years!

200 million Indians are Muslims (Sunni or Shia) and as we all know Islam originated in Hijaz which is now part of KSA. Sunni, Shia, Sufism etc.

India is an observer nation of the Arab League.

One of the largest Indian diasporas in the world are located in the GCC if not the largest. Indian remittances from the GCC are the biggest of all Indian remittances by far.

50 Richest Indians in the GCC - ArabianBusiness.com

GCC again India’s top remittance source | The National

Hinduism in Arab states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Millions of Indians are of Arab or partial Arab ancestry too. Many Arabs have partial Indian ancestry too which surnames like Al-Hindi confirm.

There is really nothing to counter and many of those so-called WIkileaks are obvious hoaxes too. In any case none of them show anything that we don't know already or that is not official policy.

Relax and take a deep breath and let the Muslims of India decide how they want to live their lives. Nobody is forcing anyone or killing anyone.

Arabs don't see India or Indians as enemies and our ancient ties and current reality show that. Educated Indians on this forum or elsewhere know this.
 
Last edited:
It is the Mullahs that are pretty much obsessed with Arabs. They some what like to dress, act, and speak like Arabs to gain our approval. It is not working. The Persian nationalistis mock them and mock the Iranians who act like them by saying "Arab-parast" meaning "Arab-worshiper". I think that is an accurate and well-deserved slur.
 
@The Great One

India's largest trading partner is the GCC and Arab world. Trade and cultural relations between the Arab world (in particular the Arabian Peninsula) and India have existed for millenniums upon millenniums.

Trade and cultural links between ancient India and ancient Arabia date back to third millennium BC.[1]

  1. Heptulla, Nejma. Indo-West Asian relations: the Nehru era. Allied Publishers, 1991. ISBN 9788170233404.
That's 5000 years!

200 million Indians are Muslims (Sunni or Shia) and as we all know Islam originated in Hijaz which is now part of KSA. Sunni, Shia, Sufism etc.

India is an observer nation of the Arab League.

One of the largest Indian diaspora in the world are located in the GCC if not the largest. Indian remittances from the GCC are the biggest of all Indian remittances by far.

There is really nothing to counter and many of those so-called WIkileaks are obvious hoax and in any case none of them show anything that we don't know already.

50 Richest Indians in the GCC - ArabianBusiness.com

GCC again India’s top remittance source | The National

Relax and take a deep breath and let the Muslims of India decide how they want to live their lives. Nobody is forcing anyone or killing anyone.
Nobody is denying the economic realities. Saudi Arabia (GCC if you will) is welcome to come and trade and foster an economic and knowledge based partnership. With all due respect, we just don't want Saudi Arabia trying to spread its religious ideologies here. Indian Muslims who want, can go to Saudi Arabia if they are interested in learning your ways. You don't need to come here
Another (incomplete) document is on the establishment of a Salafi Centre in India is a request to Riyadh from the Secretariat General of the Muslim World League (Mecca). The date written isn’t clearly legible, but looks to be 2012. The league was looking to establish an institution called The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Centre for Salafi Studies in India, along with opening more such centres in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Muslim World League is a controversial Saudi government funded charity, which has earlier been linked with international terror financing.
 
It is the Mullahs that are pretty much obsessed with Arabs. They some what like to dress, act, and speak like Arabs to gain our approval. It is not working. The Persian nationalistis mock them and mock the Iranians who act like them by saying "Arab-parast" meaning "Arab-worshiper". I think that is an accurate and well-deserved slur.

I agree with your first point.

The rest I don't agree with as the atheist Iranian nationalists consider any Muslim (whether Iranian or not) to be an "Arab-worshipper".

Iranians that are not hostile towards us Arabs are not our enemies and as you know Iranian Arabs, Lurs and Persians have lived in the GCC for centuries if not millenniums. Only a minority of them are causing any trouble.

Iranian nationalists dislike most of the 450 million Arabs but especially their neighbors in the GCC where ironically the biggest Iranian diaspora in the Arab world exist by far. It's quite ironic if you ask me but whatever.


Nobody is denying the economic realities. Saudi Arabia (GCC if you will) is welcome to come and trade and foster an economic and knowledge based partnership. With all due respect, we just don't want Saudi Arabia trying to spread its religious ideologies here. Indian Muslims who want, can go to Saudi Arabia if they are interested in learning your ways. You don't need to come here

Not only the economic realities but historical, cultural and religious (Islam, Christianity, Judaism). After all those are Abrahamic/Semitic religions who emerged in our part of the world.

Islam is one and KSA is home to all Islamic sects natively. Millions of people in KSA are Shia's (Zaydi, Ismaili, Twelver). After all what is now KSA (Hijaz - the name of an ancient historical region in KSA) is the cradle of Islam.

Last time I saw India is a democratic country or at least that's what I hear from Indians here so Indian Muslims should be able to decide on their own what they want to follow. Doing dawah and having cultural/religious ties with Muslim INdians is not illegal last time I saw.

It's no different to promotion of Indian culture in the GCC or elsewhere where Indian communities exist.

Fundamentalism of any kind should be combated and the regime in KSA should refrain from that but 99,5% of all Muslims in KSA are peaceful people and actually a minority follow the Hanbali fiqh in KSA (mainly Najd) in KSA. Which you call "Wahhabis". Nor are those so-called Wahhabis (Hanbalis) killing anyone. Terrorists are and they don't belong to any sect or religion. Just evil people. Unless you are trying to tell me that Islam approves of Daesh-like terrorism for instance.:lol: I hope not buddy.
 
Nobody is denying the economic realities. Saudi Arabia (GCC if you will) is welcome to come and trade and foster an economic and knowledge based partnership. With all due respect, we just don't want Saudi Arabia trying to spread its religious ideologies here. Indian Muslims who want, can go to Saudi Arabia if they are interested in learning your ways. You don't need to come here

arab influence is not currently a threat to India,main threat is from Christian missionaries
 
arab influence is not currently a threat to India,main threat is from Christian missionaries

Buddy, Arabs and Indians did trade with each other for 5000 years. Ties were throughout history very, very cordial. Many Arabs settled in India and vice versa. Some of the first mosques in the world were built by Arab seafarers in Southern India (Kerala etc.)

List of the oldest mosques in the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To this day ties between that part of India and the entire Western India are close.

Islam spread to India by mostly Muslim Arab Sufis and seafarers/traders and today almost 200 million (!) Indians follow Islam. If you equal Arab culture with Islam (a very big fault which I don't think I need to explain) that "battle" is already lost.

If there is proof of any fundamentalism being spread (which I highly doubt) then we can talk. Until then such articles posted in the Western media are just your typical scare-mongering tactic.

Let Muslims in India live like they want to. Same with Hindus and other minorities. I wish that people in the MENA region/Muslim world became more tolerant and I personally would have nothing against more places of worship for Hindus in the GCC especially KSA where currently (officially that is) only mosques are allowed.

Look at the current economic reality, the historical ties, cultural ties honestly and now religious ties (since the spread of Islam but also Christianity to a smaller degree) and ask yourself if Arabs are your enemies. The millions of Indians, or those here on this forum who live in the GCC, certainly don't think so.

In short there is no reason to any animosity and I have noticed that most Arab and Indian users here on PDF have cordial ties but there is a lot of ignorance from Indians in regards to the MENA region I have noticed. Only very anti-Islam trolls among the Indians seem to be anti-Arab because they equal Arabs and Islam with each other.

Also are your oldest Christian community not Syrian Arabs?
 
Not only the economic realities but historical, cultural and religious (Islam, Christianity, Judaism). After all those are Abrahamic/Semitic religions who emerged in our part of the world.

Islam is one and KSA is home to all Islamic sects natively. Millions of people in KSA are Shia's (Zaydi, Ismaili, Twelver). After all what is now KSA (Hijaz - the name of an ancient historical region in KSA) is the cradle of Islam.

Last time I saw India is a democratic country or at least that's what I hear from Indians here so Indian Muslims should be able to decide on their own what they want to follow. Doing dawah and having cultural/religious ties with Muslim INdians is not illegal last time I saw.

It's no different to promotion of Indian culture in the GCC or elsewhere where Indian communities exist.

Fundamentalism of any kind should be combated and the regime in KSA should refrain from that but 99,5% of all Muslims in KSA are peaceful people and actually a minority follow the Hanbali fiqh in KSA (mainly Najd) in KSA. Which you call "Wahhabis". Nor are those so-called Wahhabis (Hanbalis) killing anyone. Terrorists are and they don't belong to any sect or religion. Just evil people. Unless you are trying to tell me that Islam approves of Daesh-like terrorism for instance.:lol: I hope not buddy.
All valid and fair points. I concur.
I am an ignorant in Islam and its various sects. Most of what I know is from reading western news sources so I automatically equate terrorist with Wahhabi. That may be erroneous now but I have no way of knowing. What is well known is that the House of Saud is involved in financing mosques/cultural centres that preach extremism and that is all I want to avoid for my country. Rest I have no problem with KSA:)
 
All valid and fair points. I concur.
I am an ignorant in Islam and its various sects. Most of what I know is from reading western news sources so I automatically equate terrorist with Wahhabi. That may be erroneous now but I have no way of knowing. What is well known is that the House of Saud is involved in financing mosques/cultural centres that preach extremism and that is all I want to avoid for my country. Rest I have no problem with KSA:)

Let me just tell you that KSA is home to every major Islamic sect indigenously as the only country on the planet as Arabia and especially what is now Hijaz (which is in KSA) is the cradle of Islam.

We have indigenous Sunni (Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanbali and Hanafi madahib), Shia (Zaydi, Ismaii and Twelwer) and traditional Sufi communities (the oldest in the world).

"Wahhabi" is quite frankly a derogatory slur aimed at the Hanbali community in KSA which is mostly located in Najd. The Hanbali fiqh is the official fiqh in KSA that is followed by the clergy (Ulema). In KSA though they are not the majority among the people. In fact 1/3 of all people are Hanbali. You can read about this if you do some research. Hanbali people are not terrorists at all.

What you are looking for is Jihadists. Or Salafi Jihadism as some also call it. Other's call it Qutbism. It depends on the bias.

Salafi jihadism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact is that it's not an "sect" that is followed by anyone other than militants.

Anyway I myself am a Shafi'i Sunni Muslim and I myself am and have been critical of some policies of the Hanbali/Najdi dominated clergy in KSA and many people are. The thing is that KSA is no democracy and the leaders have not exactly been elected and their sole legitimacy is that they rule by Islam.

KSA is a special country due to being home to Makkah and Madinah. It's not like any other Muslim country. It's complicated to understand for non-Muslims. You need years of reading but those one-sided news and articles that you can read a few times each year won't give you anything more than an artificial understanding.

Saudi Arabians are not as religious as you believe either, especially not the youth which makes up 66,6% of the population nowadays. Hijazis for instance were always cosmopolitan (many, many ethicites settled in Hijaz and it's one of the most pluralistic regions in the Muslim world) and tolerant even of non-Muslims which the long history of Hijaz confirms.

Much of it is also connected to the current proxy wars in the MENA region. Proxy wars that influence the Muslim world as a whole and even non-Muslim world.
 
Let me just tell you that KSA is home to every major Islamic sect indigenously as the only country on the planet as Arabia and especially what is now Hijaz (which is in KSA) is the cradle of Islam.

We have indigenous Sunni (Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanbali and Hanafi madahib), Shia (Zaydi, Ismaii and Twelwer) and traditional Sufi communities (the oldest in the world).

"Wahhabi" is quite frankly a derogatory slur aimed at the Hanbali community in KSA which is mostly located in Najd. The Hanbali fiqh is the official fiqh in KSA that is followed by the clergy (Ulema). In KSA though they are not the majority among the people. In fact 1/3 of all people are Hanbali. You can read about this if you do some research. Hanbali people are not terrorists at all.

What you are looking for is Jihadists. Or Salafi Jihadism as some also call it. Other's call it Qutbism. It depends on the bias.

Salafi jihadism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact is that it's not an "sect" that is followed by anyone other than militants.

Anyway I myself am a Shafi'i Sunni Muslim and I myself am and have been critical of some policies of the Hanbali/Najdi dominated clergy in KSA and many people are. The thing is that KSA is no democracy and the leaders have not exactly been elected and their sole legitimacy is that they rule by Islam.

KSA is a special country due to being home to Makkah and Madinah. It's not like any other Muslim country. It's complicated to understand for non-Muslims. You need years of reading but those one-sided news and articles that you can read a few times each year won't give you anything more than an artificial understanding.

Saudi Arabians are not as religious as you believe either, especially not the youth which makes up 66,6% of the population nowadays. Hijazis for instance were always cosmopolitan (many, many ethicites settled in Hijaz and it's one of the most pluralistic regions in the Muslim world) and tolerant even of non-Muslims which the long history of Hijaz confirms.

Much of it is also connected to the current proxy wars in the MENA region. Proxy wars that influence the Muslim world as a whole and even non-Muslim world.
That clears up a lot of things. A very good read. Thanks for the effort ( I can never write long posts dammit:lol:).
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom