I am not interested in out and out -- I need his statements.Jinnah was out and out secular. There is no doubt about it.
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I am not interested in out and out -- I need his statements.Jinnah was out and out secular. There is no doubt about it.
I am not interested in out and out -- I need his statements.
Jinnah even didn't had any intentions to half secularize and you claiming full secularization --- this only exists in the heads of tiny little small secular/liberal Pakistanis.
You can't even post even just one statement of Jinnah where he said that he wanted a secular Pakistan.
Ok, at that time the Maratha state and the state of Mysore didn't exactly have cordial relations. You are looking at history from 200 years in advance. This means you know what happened in the future post the Mysore British wars and the Maratha British wars. The Marathas never imagined that the British would rule the entire India in just a few years. You know what happened, but people in that era didn't. In hindsight, we can say that yes, the Marathas and in fact all the kingdoms in India should've fought in a united manner against the British. Then they could resume whatever quarrels they have among themselves.If it wasn't for backstabbing marathas then Tipu Sultan may have beaten the English back. You need to stop worshipping Hindus alone as the only ones who wanted to keep the clans united. Compared to Tipu who gave his life on the front line resisting the colonialists, I'm not even sure if Gandhi comes remotely close.
So should I listen to what unknown xyz says .. (post his speeches of secular Pakistan)Listed to his speech after pakistan was created.
That is the only evidence you need.
So should I listen to what unknown xyz says .. (post his speeches of secular Pakistan)
Xyz?So should I listen to what unknown xyz says .. (post his speeches of secular Pakistan)
Erdoğan Will not live for ever
Oh thanksYou are in the wrong theater. Bring your pop corn here.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-secular-or-not.667930/
He was a Pan-Islamist till his last breath, the closest "nationalism" we can find in his works is thisNo, he wasn't. He was pan Islamist at the beginning. Towards the end he believed in nationalism but not extreme nationalism, he believed that there should be a balance; love for one's nation, but also a sense of unity for when time calls it. He was though not agreed on secularism, he had a different idea on that.
I also checked the text I quoted, it is actually one of his late pieces, that is after the establishment of the Republic and westernization policies. you quoted just some hardcore Islamist website.
You're forgetting that "Muslim" Nizam was more stable and permanent ally of the British than the Marathas, he supplied at least 16,000 numbered force to the British in the siege of Seringapatam (1799).What kind of nonsensical claim is this? Every mughal and Muslim-led city state opponent of Britain asked Hindus and Muslims to join together and expel the British. If it wasn't for backstabbing marathas then Tipu Sultan may have beaten the English back. You need to stop worshipping Hindus alone as the only ones who wanted to keep the clans united. Compared to Tipu who gave his life on the front line resisting the colonialists, I'm not even sure if Gandhi comes remotely close.
He was a Pan-Islamist till his last breath, the closest "nationalism" we can find in his works is this
View attachment 635136
So, not really nationalistic, in fact rejects nationalism and call for Islamic unity but Nations must focus on themselves temporarily and an eternal unity afterwards.
And you're correct, he was not a secularist in any sense, he defends old laws and criticise some of the laws like the equality between men and women in inheritance and related matters for instance.
View attachment 635137
Furthermore, the nature of the website is irrelevant as the quotes are not falsified and independently verifiable.
View attachment 635138
View attachment 635139
View attachment 635140
You're forgetting that "Muslim" Nizam was more stable and permanent ally of the British than the Marathas, he supplied at least 16,000 numbered force to the British in the siege of Seringapatam (1799).
@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer
Yup, the Qaumi Tarana, it was followed by Tarana e Milli, as a side note someone commented in a conversation that if Iqbal's grandfather had not converted he may have become a great Hindutva poet too .A subject that hits me in the heart always, it pains me to dwell on it.
Regretfully I cannot answer much more than this.
I remember him at his finest (for me):
Saare Jahan se accha, Hindustan hamara....
...and I have amnesia after it.