Why so many Kiran trainers have crashed

[VkdIndian]

PAF on average flys almost the double the number of hours / pilot when compared to IAF.

What is the source of this figure?

I think rate of crashes is more practical if seen fleetwise. This considering that transport, fighters , trainers etc have inherent risks and safeties associates due to role and redundancies etc.

 

[SecularNationalist]

As expected from a KAREN fighter

 

[Khan vilatey]

What is the source of this figure?

I think rate of crashes is more practical if seen fleetwise. This considering that transport, fighters , trainers etc have inherent risks and safeties associates due to role and redundancies etc.

I don’t agree, I see a narrative being created that is not part of reality. As paf is half the size of Indians against flying the and paf flies on average 100 hours more for fighter pilots the results will only get skewed to show IAF’s crashes as lower than PAF. Yet by any other metric this would be hog wash.

see Singapore and China both operate the su-30 but their crashes are lower. PAF operated similar numbers of f-7 to IAF mig -21 yet our crashes were way lower.

I do understand the cranked double delta of the F-7pg made it a superior aircraft in every way but still the Indians are only to blame for doing the bison upgrade and wasting money.

the best solution for the IAF would be to allow paksitani fighters to provide air defence duties for India. See this will save money and lives and give paksitan a much needed Finical boost.

why do Indians need to fight all the time be friends , save money spend it on industry and let the martial races of Pakistan protect India

k

 

[MilSpec]

Wrong.
This list is about total number of Mirages there were ever acquired by a country incl. 2nd hand ones:

PAF has 6 Mirage sqns plus one CCs unit with half a dozen birds so total number in active service is 110-112.

Nice try.

Let's see data from Scramble Aviation society and Aviation Safety Network:

Since January 2012 Number of PAF fighter losses: 30

Since January 2012 Number of IAF fighter losses: 46

Ratio: 1:1.51

Now taking into account the fact that IAF inventory is nearly two times larger than PAF, IAF crash rate is relatively lower.

More importantly 20 PAF pilots died in this crashes in comparison only 8 IAF pilots died.
Which proves IAF is much safer.

LOGIC-- What Blasphemy is this?

why do Indians need to fight all the time be friends , save money spend it on industry and let the martial races of Pakistan protect India

ROFL... The largest unilateral since WWII within a fortnight claim to be a martial race... try your hand at standup ...

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Thats a very old aircraft, IAF is already going to replace it with newer aircrafts.

 

[Imran Khan]

its fault of K8 pilots they don't know how to crash them . and please check hours indians fly 24 hours 6 days a week while k8 fly once a year only on 23 march

 

[ziaulislam]

LOGIC-- What Blasphemy is this?

ROFL... The largest unilateral since WWII within a fortnight claim to be a martial race... try your hand at standup ...

By that logic Mig21 crashes were 400% of total aircarfts
I.e 400 crashed out of 120 active aircarfts

Maths doesnt work per this logic

 

[MilSpec]

By that logic Mig21 crashes were 400% of total aircarfts
I.e 400 crashed out of 120 active aircarfts

Maths doesnt work per this logic

reflect upon your math...

 

[Windjammer]

The bottom line is after the initial new Mirage purchases, last of which were delivered around 1982, later Mirages acquired by the PAF were mostly retired aircraft. Some had been mothballed for several years and were given a new lease of life by the PAC. Mirages have already had their Golden Jubilee in the PAF service, the aircraft fought in the 1971 war and were put into action during WOT. They also recently participated in operation Swift retort. So even if the figure of say 70+ crashes over 50 years of operation is calculated, it's not as bad as it sounds considering these are single engine aircraft and many of them were earlier out of service.....Now take the Jaguar aircraft in the IAF service, which began arriving in India in 1979.....some 12 years after first Mirages were inducted in PAF......the Jaguar is a twin engine jet and all were brand new aircraft that joined the IAF. To date, it hardly fired in anger and still the IAF has managed to crash close to 60 aircraft, where as single engine MiG-21s which joined IAF just a few years before the Mirages in PAF....have passed the landmark of 500 crashes.....Even the Indian Navy managed to crash over 50% of Harriers in it's inventory before they were retired.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I don’t agree, I see a narrative being created that is not part of reality. As paf is half the size of Indians against flying the and paf flies on average 100 hours more for fighter pilots the results will only get skewed to show IAF’s crashes as lower than PAF. Yet by any other metric this would be hog wash.

see Singapore and China both operate the su-30 but their crashes are lower. PAF operated similar numbers of f-7 to IAF mig -21 yet our crashes were way lower.

I do understand the cranked double delta of the F-7pg made it a superior aircraft in every way but still the Indians are only to blame for doing the bison upgrade and wasting money.

the best solution for the IAF would be to allow paksitani fighters to provide air defence duties for India. See this will save money and lives and give paksitan a much needed Finical boost.

why do Indians need to fight all the time be friends , save money spend it on industry and let the martial races of Pakistan protect India

k

Singapore doesn’t operate the Su-30.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Singapore doesn’t operate the Su-30.

That is correct sorry, I remember they evaluated these as Malaysia and Indonesia operate version of the su-27

k

 

[VkdIndian]

I don’t agree, I see a narrative being created that is not part of reality. As paf is half the size of Indians against flying the and paf flies on average 100 hours more for fighter pilots the results will only get skewed to show IAF’s crashes as lower than PAF. Yet by any other metric this would be hog wash.

Ok, don’t agree but at least give the source of your data.

 

[ziaulislam]

reflect upon your math...

What is maths

The bottom line is after the initial new Mirage purchases, last of which were delivered around 1982, later Mirages acquired by the PAF were mostly retired aircraft. Some had been mothballed for several years and were given a new lease of life by the PAC. Mirages have already had their Golden Jubilee in the PAF service, the aircraft fought in the 1971 war and were put into action during WOT. They also recently participated in operation Swift retort. So even if the figure of say 70+ crashes over 50 years of operation is calculated, it's not as bad as it sounds considering these are single engine aircraft and many of them were earlier out of service.....Now take the Jaguar aircraft in the IAF service, which began arriving in India in 1979.....some 12 years after first Mirages were inducted in PAF......the Jaguar is a twin engine jet and all were brand new aircraft that joined the IAF. To date, it hardly fired in anger and still the IAF has managed to crash close to 60 aircraft, where as single engine MiG-21s which joined IAF just a few years before the Mirages in PAF....have passed the landmark of 500 crashes.....Even the Indian Navy managed to crash over 50% of Harriers in it's inventory before they were retired.

Now they will say you are lying since there are only 120 mig21 in service how come.." we crashed 500 with 200 dead pilots"

Indian maths

 

[Khan vilatey]

Ok, don’t agree but at least give the source of your data.

I did in a much more detailed post about it, search my posts or search paf flying hours

k

 

[Nomad40]

In past 9 years (only 4 Kiran trainers crashed).
Most crashes were in 80s and 90s.
BTW out 198 Mirages inducted by PAF, 70-75 have crashed.
@siegecrossbow

You are wrong they were shot down by IAF