Why Pak Army dont procure Boeing CH-47 Chinook ?

[muhammadali233]

He was no friend of Pakistan!
He had deployed these heli under the pretext of doing a survey for oil n gas as at the time we lacked the resources to do so our self. An officer of PA was deployed with each hele to act as a liaison officer about which the Iranians were not too pleased...
Later it turned out that the the survey was not to find oil n gas but the Iranians were drawing up plans to invade Baluchustan.....the iranian revolution saved us from a confrontation with iran

Stop pulluing stories from your arse
These heli came for recce mission against insurgents

 

[SQ8]

He was no friend of Pakistan!
He had deployed these heli under the pretext of doing a survey for oil n gas as at the time we lacked the resources to do so our self. An officer of PA was deployed with each hele to act as a liaison officer about which the Iranians were not too pleased...
Later it turned out that the the survey was not to find oil n gas but the Iranians were drawing up plans to invade Baluchustan.....the iranian revolution saved us from a confrontation with iran

What do they get from invading Balochistan? Other than perhaps smoothened borders?
What possible difference would 4 CH-47s make?

Id be more concerned on oil and gas surveys anyway than invasion. If they found some then there would be war for sure or we would be beloved like the Saudis are.

Speaking for the CH-47s, multiple attempts were made in the 80s but a combination of funding and congressional attitudes had us leave the system alone.

Just get Mi-26

Too big and generally impractical for Pakistan’s needs. The ideal helicopter is the CH-47 but since that is unavailable we can only wait for the Chinese who have a project ongoing in that CH-53 weight class.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

i am not going into technicalities or other stuff. just look at this Beast..

I am no expert here, but i think its a very handful machine for Pak army.
as we know that now its unlikely we can get it from US, do we have chinese copy of it ?

were refused even during Zia era. that machine is battle proven. but it was denied as far as I know
we will have to settle with a chinese clone

 

[YeBeWarned]

What do they get from invading Balochistan? Other than perhaps smoothened borders?
What possible difference would 4 CH-47s make?

Id be more concerned on oil and gas surveys anyway than invasion. If they found some then there would be war for sure or we would be beloved like the Saudis are.

Speaking for the CH-47s, multiple attempts were made in the 80s but a combination of funding and congressional attitudes had us leave the system alone.

Do you think that we have an immediate need for a heavy lift copter like Chinook ? and if yes than wouldn't Russian option be more feasible as we already operate Mil series .

 

[SQ8]

Do you think that we have an immediate need for a heavy lift copter like Chinook ? and if yes than wouldn't Russian option be more feasible as we already operate Mil series .

We have a variety of remote posts that require larger supply loads that our currently helis have to make multiple trips to fulfill.

The largest lifter the Russians have after the Mi-26 currently in production is the mi-17 which we already operate.

 

[YeBeWarned]

We have a variety of remote posts that require larger supply loads that our currently helis have to make multiple trips to fulfill.

The largest lifter the Russians have after the Mi-26 currently in production is the mi-17 which we already operate.

So technically the need is there, but unfortunately like always we don't have any option but to settle with the existing one's .

 

[Dante80]

Some personal insight.

Here in Greece we operate a little more than 30 Chinooks (DG, D and SD variants). I had the pleasure to ride one of those back when I was in the army (conscripted) many years ago.

It is a hell of a helicopter. Very fast, heavy lifting and mature enough to have exceptional availability properties with middling maintenance costs (when viewed as $/kg though, not $/hr). We use them for pretty much everything here (they are a godsend for the Aegean archipelago with its many islands), but it has to be said that it is both very expensive to procure and maintain for general cargo transport.

For us it fits an important niche, and (due to NATO mostly) the entry as well as spare part/maintenance costs have been somewhat manageable, to the point that our Spartans (C-27J) have become almost completely redundant and/or superfluous. One size does not fit all though sometimes, and I think that Pakistan would be better served via something like a modernized version of the Mil Mi-17.

Or maybe even the restarted Z-8 production variant.

 

[niaz]

seriously thats $200 million a piece looks more costly than F35.

India paid $3.1-billion for 22 Apache and 15 Chinook helicopters, Apart from the 22 Apaches, the contract involves the acquisition of 812 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire-II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles and 12 AN/APG-78 fire-control radars, among other things. Hence cost per bird was a lot less than $200-million. I would guess it to be in the range of about $60 to 70-million per unit.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-Chinook-helicopters/articleshow/49141174.cms

UK paid £60-million per bird or close to $85-million per unit for Chinooks built to the UK specifications. Understand the cost of basic CH-47 starts at about $40-million. On the other hand Russian MI- 171 costs about $13-million each. Hence one can purchase three M1-171 for the price of one Chinook.

Chinook is no doubt a great machine but the criterion for the Armed Services hardware is not what the machine is capable of but what is required to be done. There is no point buying a costly helicopter capable of lifting 30 tons (MI-26) or even 11 tons (CH-47) when 95% of the country’s needs can be satisfied by a medium-lift helicopter capable of lifting 4 to 5 tons.

A larger capacity machine gives you the flexibility at a hefty cost that is not really needed. Thus it is a waste of financial resources. Pakistan is short of funds to start with, why buy one machine when you can have 3 that can adequately perform the required tasks for the price of one.

 

[Meliodas]

CHANDIGARH: The advanced heavy-lift Chinook helicopter were inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) on Monday at an impressive ceremony held at the Air Force station in Chandigarh.
Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa and air officer commanding in chief (AOC-in-C), Western Air Command, Air Marshal R Nambiar and other senior IAF and defence officers attended the induction ceremony.
Salil Gupte, head of Boeing India handed over the symbolic key of the Chinook helicopter to the IAF chief.

Addressing the gathering at the induction ceremony, the IAF chief said that it is a red-letter day and induction of Chinook would be game changer for Indian Air Force.
Dhanoa explained the multiple role and round-the-clock operational capabllity of Chinook.
Air chief informed that a total of 15 Chinook would be inducted and four of them would be based at the Chandigarh. The remaining 11 choppers would be based at Dinjan airfield in eastern sector.
The advanced helicopters code named—CH-47F(I) Chinook would help the armed forces in combat operations and transportation of troops, a task earlier largely done by Mi-26.

The tandem rotor helicopter, which has two large horizontal rotors, arrived in Chandigarh in February for pre-induction exercise. The flying is carried out by IAF pilots accompanied by pilots of US company from which the IAF has purchased these flying machines.
The IAF would be getting a total of 15 Chinook as part of the deal with US and initially four of them has been has been inducted. The heavy-lift chopper would be based at Chandigarh, which is a strategically important transport aircrafts base for the troops deployed in high altitude areas of Jammu and Kashmir including Leh-Ladakh region.
The entire airframe of this new twin-engine Flying machine has a high degree of ballistics tolerance. Most important feature of the chopper is that its internal cabin volume is sufficient for transporting fully equipped infantry soldiers for specialized operations and artillery guns and other equipment. The latest and more powerful engines would greatly enhance its payload carriage capability at higher altitudes.
In 2015, India had signed a $3.1bn contract with Boeing for the procurement of 22 AH-64E Apache attack, and 15 CH-47F(I) Chinook transport helicopters. The US will provide weapons, radars and electronic warfare suites as part of the deal. The IAF pilots had undergone training in October 2018 in Delaware, US, to fly Chinook.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-chandigarh-airfield/articleshow/68557551.cms

CHANDIGARH: The advanced heavy-lift Chinook helicopter were inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) on Monday at an impressive ceremony held at the Air Force station in Chandigarh.
Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa and air officer commanding in chief (AOC-in-C), Western Air Command, Air Marshal R Nambiar and other senior IAF and defence officers attended the induction ceremony.
Salil Gupte, head of Boeing India handed over the symbolic key of the Chinook helicopter to the IAF chief.

Addressing the gathering at the induction ceremony, the IAF chief said that it is a red-letter day and induction of Chinook would be game changer for Indian Air Force.
Dhanoa explained the multiple role and round-the-clock operational capabllity of Chinook.
Air chief informed that a total of 15 Chinook would be inducted and four of them would be based at the Chandigarh. The remaining 11 choppers would be based at Dinjan airfield in eastern sector.
The advanced helicopters code named—CH-47F(I) Chinook would help the armed forces in combat operations and transportation of troops, a task earlier largely done by Mi-26.

The tandem rotor helicopter, which has two large horizontal rotors, arrived in Chandigarh in February for pre-induction exercise. The flying is carried out by IAF pilots accompanied by pilots of US company from which the IAF has purchased these flying machines.
The IAF would be getting a total of 15 Chinook as part of the deal with US and initially four of them has been has been inducted. The heavy-lift chopper would be based at Chandigarh, which is a strategically important transport aircrafts base for the troops deployed in high altitude areas of Jammu and Kashmir including Leh-Ladakh region.
The entire airframe of this new twin-engine Flying machine has a high degree of ballistics tolerance. Most important feature of the chopper is that its internal cabin volume is sufficient for transporting fully equipped infantry soldiers for specialized operations and artillery guns and other equipment. The latest and more powerful engines would greatly enhance its payload carriage capability at higher altitudes.
In 2015, India had signed a $3.1bn contract with Boeing for the procurement of 22 AH-64E Apache attack, and 15 CH-47F(I) Chinook transport helicopters. The US will provide weapons, radars and electronic warfare suites as part of the deal. The IAF pilots had undergone training in October 2018 in Delaware, US, to fly Chinook.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-chandigarh-airfield/articleshow/68557551.cms

This will effect Indians ability to transport men and equipment at faster rate to battlefield.

 

[crankthatskunk]

because we have only 724mn$ in reserves left . we can buy 19 chinooks with this money and start eating grass

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1661289/1-pakistans-net-reserves-stands-minus-724m/

Chchchc, General, we are already eating grass according to your logic. We cannot buy Chinooks with this reserve, because it is already in negative.
As negative goes, you can bring it in billions and buy lots of Chinooks.

 

[Shabi1]

Pakistan did show interest in Chinook after their use in Earthquake relief work in 2008, but they were deemed too expensive and US refused to provide or subsidize via FMF program.

I think PA has interest in Mi-26 for heavy lift role but it is not too high in the priority list. Planners opted to rather use available funds to grow and replace the medium lift helicopter fleet instead.

If there are any requirements for special circumstances Pakistan can simply contract any of the civilian Mi-26 operators for the job, just as we do contract Antonov jets for heavy lifting when needed. I've seen the Antonov 225 and 128s on errands in Pakistan.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Pakistan is refraining from getting new weapons from united states. USA is very unreliable in time of need.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

We are not a wide country. We have good roads infrastructure and don't need such heavy helicopters.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Seeing that there are - like F-16s and other hardware - surplus Chinooks available in the US and available for relatively cheap, I'm guessing: (a) the US won't approve it or (b) Pakistan doesn't want it. I'd wager on (a).

After earthquake 2005 U.S offered Chinook to Pakistan on lower prices but our military procurement rejected it because of high maintenance cost, they consume 3 time more fuel in comparison with MI-17.

One more reason is they put bar on offensive role (means against India).

 

[tarrar]

It can be a good option, as 4-8 will serve really well in aspects.