Why not Iranian Tomcats

[abbasniazi]

Hey Guys,

whenever i see american F-14s, F-15s or F-18s , why do they look so similer to SU-27, Su-30 etc?

why do i get a feeling that either one of these countries have copied the basic airframe characteritics of the other like air intakes, vertical stabilizers twin engine styles etc.

i think Russians Sukhois are based upon american aircraft airframe designs, and there could be a possibilty that USSR might have poured into this technology in 70s through KGB and it would have further been suplemented by an example or two volutarily given or in exchange of some weapon systems from USSR to Iran after Iranian revolution.

what do u guys think of this idea?

 

[SBD-3]

Hey Guys,

whenever i see american F-14s, F-15s or F-18s , why do they look so similer to SU-27, Su-30 etc?

why do i get a feeling that either one of these countries have copied the basic airframe characteritics of the other like air intakes, vertical stabilizers twin engine styles etc.

i think Russians Sukhois are based upon american aircraft airframe designs, and there could be a possibilty that USSR might have poured into this technology in 70s through KGB and it would have further been suplemented by an example or two volutarily given or in exchange of some weapon systems from USSR to Iran after Iranian revolution.

what do u guys think of this idea?

They might look similar but Russians are considered more advanced in airframes and A2A ammunition while US has the systems advantage. Russians were able to design HMD which remained unmatched for a long time until the development of JHMCS (which i suspect would be developed out of HMDs on German Mig-29s handed over to US)

 

[ice_man]

ok well we can buy the F-14s from the Iranians for research purposes or just hand them over to the chinese to use as a test bed....that wil eventually help us get better quality fighters!!! however flying them as fighters is insanity!!!

but i wonder why the F-15 was a follow up and enhanced version of F-14.....

 

[emotionless_teenage]

if variable geometry aircraft is the "thing" one should acquire MiG-23 then

about the similarity in american/soviet aircraft,it is mainly comes out from counter-recounter mindset

to counter MiG-25(american at that time thought MiG-25 is an air superiority fighter) they build F-15(aircraft with it's legendary record).to counter the eagle soviet build Su-27(Su-27SK is supposedly better than F-15C,Su-30MK is supposedly better than F-15E,Su-30MKI is supposedly better than F-15K while Su-30MKM is better than F-15SG : D).and obviously,to counter the flanker the american build F-22(and to counter the raptor russian already commenced PAK-FA project)

this will go on until world end

 

[SBD-3]

ok well we can buy the F-14s from the Iranians for research purposes or just hand them over to the chinese to use as a test bed....that wil eventually help us get better quality fighters!!! however flying them as fighters is insanity!!!

but i wonder why the F-15 was a follow up and enhanced version of F-14.....

that was the point i wanted to suggest but regarding research why not do it jointly rather than let China do it alone. If we both can learn togather

 

[gambit]

to counter the flanker the american build F-22

No...The Su-27's first flight was in 1977, same era as the F-15 and F-16. The Flanksteak series was in response to US small and agile fighter program designed for rapid manufacturing and widespread adoption by NATO forces.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/su-27.htm

Su-27 FLANKER (SUKHOI)

The introduction, in the mid-1970s, of the USAF F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon put the then Eastern bloc fighter pilots at a distinct disadvantage.

The F-22 was already in the design phase after the lessons learned from the F-117. Look at the shaping of the B-2 for the clues. The F-117 was already in flight, albeit in secret, for nearly a decade when it became famous for Desert Storm in 1991. The B-2's first flight was in 1989 and its curvatures are evident in the YF-22 and the YF-23 competition. By the time the F-22 flew in 2005, the US had already invested twenty years of money into the project with criterias that resulted in that fly-off competition in 1986.

(and to counter the raptor russian already commenced PAK-FA project)

this will go on until world end

The PAK-FA project is forever in 'development'. We can guess that by the time it come out, may be it will be able to fire death rays from an alternate universe?

 

[emotionless_teenage]

US small and agile fighter program designed for rapid manufacturing and widespread adoption by NATO forces.

which is F-16

Su-27 was developed to counter F-15(which project started in 1969).F-15A was already in service in 1977.both MiG-29 and Su-27 were responses to american teen-series fighter(which include F-14,F-15 and F-16.F/A-18 was developed later and such would be out of soviet sight at that time)

MILAVIA Aircraft - Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker

about PAK FA.it is supposedly debut in MAKS 09 but it didn't.

i hope it will debut in LIMA exhibition 09(i'll be there,God willing : D)

 

[Comet]

I have been saying the same.... Instead of F-14 my options were the Mirage and F-16 we have in our inventory.

 

[SQ8]

F14 is a failed platform, Even US wanted out ... why would Pakistan want a failed A2A platform, which has trouble flying at even 30,000 feet.

I would suggest you read actual accounts of Iranian pilots about the F-14 and its combat performance before making such a remark.
I had a very good book of the combat record of Iranian F-14's during the Iran Iraq war verified by third parties.However if you meant failure in terms of finances and product support then that is a correct conclusion.

 

[SBD-3]

F-14 was and still is a force to rekon

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Very simplistic statements. No, the F-14 Tomcat was not a failure as an aircraft, it was simply not needed anymore. In fleet air-defence and weapons delivery, it was quite capable. It also incorporated some pretty advanced technology of the time, and was the only platform to master computerized variable-sweep control. It even had a killer RADAR, and could have been eventually paired up with the deadly AIM-120. It suffered from certain design issues, no doubt, but which new aircraft doesn't? later variants were to rectify these design issues and incorporate a more durable pair of engines. No sirs, The F-14 Tomcat was not a "failure" as an aircraft. The failure was in the planning.

Iranian F-14s have been in terrible condition for a very long time. They're all grounded, AFAIK. Even if we could somehow get them, we wouldn't be able to fly them without spending massive amount of money on overhaul and refurbishment. And we would be inducting a brand new platform, the first ever twin-engined fighter we've ever flown, and that too one that was never supposed to satisfy an Air Force's requirements. Why go through so much trouble for something you don't need?

If we're going to go for second hand aircraft, our best bet are Turkish F-16s which will become available in a few years' time.

yes i agree.......i dont think Turkish AF will part ways with their F16s anytime soon. At least not until induction of F-35. They are phasing out their F4s

But we are getting good cooperation with them. TAI upgradation of older F16s, Annatolian Eagle exercises etc. etc.

 

[SBD-3]

so we are eyeing TuAF's Vipers. But we must remeber that Turkey is a level 3 partner in JSF program so it will take at least 2020 to 2025 before they get their hands on JSF vipers will be junk by then

 

[nightrider_saulat]

eagles are much better than flankers

 

[Haanzo]

eagles are much better than flankers

smell some coffee LOL

 

[Kompromat]

Guys do not look at your back , do not look at the Turkish Used F16's( Good option tough) Do whatever is yours , Make JF17 a success , such a success that other forces try to reverse engineer it!!

Looking forward and remembering your past is the key to success , JF17 is our baby we need to make it a potent fighter , except looking for a old crap.
Regards: