Why no Pakistani helicopter manufacturing/assembling program?

[cabatli_53]

I think this is a project that both Pakistan and Turkey should work on 100% we should invest frist in turkey's helicopter , and then slowly learn some skills in making smaller helicopters may be we can use them on boarder patrols or small mission or for police force and then make it for military

Every countries which want to develop their domestic helicopters are following same ways like you told above.

TAI has also reached knowledge enouh with producing Agusta's and Skorsky's helicopter fuselages and special parts under the licence.

There is an attack helicopter development program between Italy-Turkey now a days.


Different from Atak program, Turkey has opened a new tender to produce more than 120 medium utility helicopters. Skorsky S-70 and Agusta AW-149 are the candidates. The institue which accept giving full production including gears, tranmission and co-export rights of their own models will win this tender...


In Additions, TAI has 2 indigenous helicopter development program...

First one is a cooperation program between Istanbul Technical Universty-TAI to develop a light utility helicopter for civilian purposes.

Second one is to develop a 3000-4500 tonnes military-civilian utility helicopter of TAI...

"GENERAL PURPOSE HELICOPTER
Market research around the world show that the most needed helicopter category is the utility helicopter class. Utility helicopter studies have been started so as to meet the helicopter need in Turkey and reveal a competitive product in world markets by designing and developing an indigenous helicopter. Light/middle class utility helicopter is considered as an appropriate first step for the helicopter design and development. Therefore, project goal is determined to be a utility helicopter with weight between 3000 – 4500 kg and CS27/CS29 civil certification."

TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES INC.

 

[Sinnerman108]

A Heli is powered by a turboshaft engine


A turboshaft engine is a form of gas turbine which is optimized to produce shaft power, rather than jet thrust. In principle, a turboshaft engine is similar to a turbojet, except the former features additional turbine expansion to extract heat energy from the exhaust and convert it into output shaft power.

Turboshaft engines are commonly used in applications which require a sustained high power output, high reliability, small size and light weight. These include helicopters, auxiliary power units, boats and ships, tanks, hovercraft, and stationary equipment

They are the same things !
a Turboshaft engine is a Jet engine in principle, optimized to turn the shaft.

The reason I intentionally used "Jet" engine, was to highlight the fact that we don't have a working model for an air craft jet engine, and are importing them from all over.

 

[faheemsial]

Ya u r rite we should, same as india does with Russia and now a days with USA
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So i think pakistan could co-develop something good with China Cheers

 

[LCA Tejas]

Well, First it Takes a bit time when You are building for the first time, Take the case of India, India took Up DHRUV project in 1984, completed in 1992 and Inducted in 2000. well it costs more in R&D and Making the buyers Believe that this is a reliable stuff...

Pakistan should now focus on join development with China,rather R&D its own, because the economy of yours dosent permit you for R&D at this stage.... May be later.. But Some more projects like Jf-17 thunder could get pakistan more close to R&D....

 

[faheemsial]

well bro u r wrong, Pakistan can do, but as far as my knowledge goes whatever Pakistani scientists did in past its the record that they made cheaper and lighter but the best ones. Soon u will hear the news THAT PAKISTAN MADE A HELICOPTER WHICH IS BEST BUT VERY MUCH CHEAP IN COST . InshAllah
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Well, First it Takes a bit time when You are building for the first time, Take the case of India, India took Up DHRUV project in 1984, completed in 1992 and Inducted in 2000. well it costs more in R&D and Making the buyers Believe that this is reliable stuff...

Pakistan should now focus on join development with China,rather R&D its own, because the economy of yours dosent permit you for R&D at this stage.... May be later.. But Some more projects like Jf-17 thunder could get pakistan more close to R&D....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Helicopter production is a cause of concern , while our gov(civil/military) was correct to invest in Fighter at that time

While its true that UAV research we are doing fills the void some what but still helicopters are valuable asset in Army operations, becasue alot of avionics on the UAV are simialar tow what a modern day helicopter would have

We just can't be relying on 70's designed helicopters for providing support to MBT or in warfare situation

We really need 100-140 helicopters , 80 gunships and remaining heavy lifting helicopters (all purpose) but if we can make local production also for civil usage police/firefighters/coast guards it would be great

At present , it has become aparent we should also set aside
10-30 million dollars for research and development of
local production of helicopters , starting with simple helicopters

Becasue Helicopters could be used by Police , border patrol and
coast guard operation

We coud increase efficiency to capture culprits who bomb and run on cars if we had ample helicopters available , also in case of fires and other cases helicopters are used for rescue operations

 

[Dark Angel]

well instead of a serious discussion guys are acting like kids, Pakistan should be the most concerned but most of the Pakistani members are taking it as a joke not facing the fact that PA needs them now more than ever

 

[jagjitnatt]

Soon u will hear the news THAT PAKISTAN MADE A HELICOPTER WHICH IS BEST BUT VERY MUCH CHEAP IN COST . InshAllah
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Being confident is good. But being over-confident is gonna hurt a lot. I don't expect an APACHE from India, cause I know they can't make one. Similarly Pakistan is far from making a heli.

Its fanboism like yours that creates problems. Please look at things logically and not emotionally.
I hope Pakistan gets its heli soon but things just don't look all that rosy.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

I love the enthusiasm of Azadpakistan. He regularly comes up with something for Pakistan in this forum. Nice man. (hey thats a compliment ok) Ya U need to go long way in the choppers.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Yes , well we need to invest all this Aid that is coming for our military a good 4-5 % of it into helicopter research

400-900 million dollar on helicopters ?

Can't we invest 30% of that refurbishment cost into our own helicopter program

I find it utter nonesense that we can't build a helicopter and we have to wait 20 years for someone to give us 12-14 chopper

I appreciate offer etc but , we must think to ourselves really
we need to start our own Helicopter program also at this stage

We have 5 years ...
(2010 -2015) I think that is ample time to create our own Super Cobra why wait for a helicopter from other countries ?

Every thing is available in private sector

a) Avionics
b) Engines
c) Wiring & Electronics
d) Fire and control systems

We even have our own Ordinence factories making guns and amunition we can give them tender to make a gun for chopper

every thing is there - available from china , europe , us secondary consultation -

We have all go .. we just don't have any initiative on that matter -

Or invest in Turkish program , and in 3-5 years discuss joint production but initially support turkey's program with finances

 

[faheemsial]

Well bro to some accent u culd be right but not 100%, bro in Pakistan at POF alot of things are going on and now overhauling of Heliz is done in Pakistan. And who was expecting Al-Khalid or such a light weight and latest technology nuclear missiles from Pakistan? Pakistani Defense Forces knows very well about their requirements and they are on their way to be independent in their all required fields.

My actuall point was that our engineers/scientists always tried for some light weight things that should also be cheap by cost. And both India and Pakistan haven't advance technologies as USA, Russia or China have but they are best according to their resources.

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Being confident is good. But being over-confident is gonna hurt a lot. I don't expect an APACHE from India, cause I know they can't make one. Similarly Pakistan is far from making a heli.

Its fanboism like yours that creates problems. Please look at things logically and not emotionally.
I hope Pakistan gets its heli soon but things just don't look all that rosy.

 

[Jigs]

Another thing that actually has to be considered is being able to produce a platform that is modern and not older reverse engineered stuff.

Look at Turkey first we started getting Cobras from the U.S. then Super Cobras and now we are starting to make our own helicopter by taking a Italian Platform which is modern and completely upgrading it into a very modern current gen attack helicopter. This couldn't be achieved by just self production but it can by gaining experience from older aircraft then putting out contracts for tech transfers like Turkey does.

Once again though this requires large sums of money to pretty much buy out other countries technical updates and incorporate them into a modern platform built by full self efficiency like the Altay tank. I am sure in the future Pakistan will do this and has already started with the JF-17 but needs to take it to the next level since we will be entering the age of 5th gen aircraft pretty soon once F-35s are up and Russia starts production on the PAK FA aircraft.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Again you guys are misssing the point , we had been looking after frigates , subs and fighters and tanks , I am sure our helicopter would be coming along fine....


While we are expected to get healthy 20-40 new attack helicopters by 2015 , we are probbly going to a own helicopter develop at some point

 

[araz]

i am surprised people have time enough to waste on a topic like this.People! China is struggling to operate W10 due to lack of an engine, the only prototypes they have are with engines imported from canada?. Jingoism aside we neither have the money and for instance even if we had the money how many do you guys feel would we require.I would have thought we would be all right with 80 units. now why do we want to start an indegenous programme for a thing that will take us 2-3 decades to master, eat into precious funds we DONT have, and at the end of the day will probably be outdated. Sorry guys but this is illlogical. JF17 was a logical step not only to meet PAF needs but also for the immense selling potential that it has, but when we are struggling even to maintain our genuine needs,why spend money on fancy equipment we dont need to manufacture in house. If our need increases in the future, we may be able to start a joint venture , but to solely go for a programme of this complexity by an infantile aviation industry is madness.Sorry to burst your bubble , but this is the truth.
Araz

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

i am surprised people have time enoought o waste on a topic like this.People, \China is struggling to operate W10 due to lack of an engine, the only prototypes they have are with engines imported from canada?. Jingoism aside we neither have themoney and for instance even if we had the money how many do you guys feel would we require.I would have thought we would be allright with 80 units. noew why do we want to start an indegenous programme for a thing that will take us 2-3 decades to master, eat into precious funds we DONT have, and at the end of the day will probably be outdated. SDorry guys but this is illlogical. JF17 was a logical step not only to meet PAF needs but also for the immense selling potential that it has, but when we are struggling even to maintain our genuine needs,why spend money on fancy equipment we dont need to manufacture in house. If our need increases in the future, we may be able to start a joint venture , but to solely go for a programme of this complexity by an infantile aviation industry is madness.Sorry to burst your bubble , but this is the truth.
Araz

China is working with heavy load helicopters able to lift alkhalid tanks so they are doing advance probems solving

Reference:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47498000/jpg/_47498786_008976530-1.jpg

They are not working on Attak Helicopters -

They have 1000+ helicopters in their arsenel able to support their armed units , we are lacking in transport vehicles and support from air to military .... in close combats

Making Helicopters that can move artilery , APC , light tanks, is one difficult engineering challenge - they are already well knowledged in basic 1-2 personnel helicopters


We on the other hand have no helicopters of our own , used in our civilian sector , and we have no decent attack helicopter options beyond the cobras which will have severe parts shortage in few years time as the cobras are now not produced anymore ... at leats the ones we have

a) Either we learn to make the parts
b) We make our own attack copters so we don't have to seek parts from junk yards