Why India is a Nation

[Stephen Cohen]

@Samudra Manthan

Indian Hindus DO not have ANY doubts regarding India's nationhood

If other countries think otherwise they are simply delusional

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

before the partition the entire subcontinent was roughly Indian and was associated with India.

As much the Pakistani members would try and disassociate themselves they cannot escape the mixed history of the subcontinent. At some point of the other geographical boundaries have changed and the entire culture has been mixed up.

Hence one of the reasons that one would see a brigade in likes of Pakistan hell bent on proving their Arabic ancestory or to find their history in the history of middle east and Afghanistan (you can look at the name of missiles)

At the same time you will find another breed which will try to disassociate Indus valley with Hinduism because it will defy the logic of hating the enemy when the enemy looks more of less the same with same ancestory.

At the end of the day the legacy of Budha is as much Indian as that of Nepal. India as a nation has extended extensively and Indians as people do not have to associate or disassociate with current day Pakistan or Bangladesh or Nepal for that matter. Having said that India does not claim to what happened in Pakistan post its creation. It is all Pakistan.


The post above my post is the prime example of what i just said. Finding ones on legacy in the legacy of others.

Well there is a difference between a "civilization state" and a nation.

What defines a nation is that it is controlled by one central authority, such as Washington for America, Moscow for Russia, New Delhi for India, etc.

Now China was a "civilization state" for a very very long time, but it was only 2000 years ago when we were actually united under a single central authority by the Qin/Chin Emperor.

So after that time, if you asked someone in the southernmost part of China, where does the ultimate legal and administrative authority come from? He will say from Tianzi (the Chinese Emperor) in the Chinese capital, even though it is thousands of kilometres to the north.

He will never come close to seeing the Emperor, or even the Chinese capital, but he knows that is the central authority for the country that he lives in. And that decisions made in the Chinese capital will be law for him. Just like an American today knows that Washington DC is the central authority for his own country.

And there was continuity, every time a Chinese dynasty was replaced by another dynasty (with periods of civil war in between), they succeeded the legal and administrative powers of the previous dynasty over all China.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I did read this, and it seems strange.

Indus River for India. Giving India claim as a civilization state.

Which would make sense if we were talking about British India. But not the Republic of India, since the vast majority of the Indus River exists in modern day Pakistan.

And from what the Pakistani members have been saying, they fully oppose Indian claims over this river or any history related to it.

So when the author talks about "India" they seem to be talking about the entire South Asia, which the Pakistani and Bangladeshi members here strongly oppose.

It's like when we mention that the Buddha was from Nepal, the Indian members here say "it's the same thing as India". But it's not? India is not the same thing as South Asia, just like China is not the same thing as East Asia.

These Indian nationalist refuse to even accept physical facts of geography. Indus begins in China then flows into India then into Pakistan. Over 93% flows through Pakistan, 5% in India and another 2% in China where it's born. Yet the Indian's regard Indus as central to India. The fact is Indus is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. A quick glance at map of the Pakistan makes that pretty clear.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_River

Below is map of South Asia. Indus River can be seen flowing from China (red) India (saffron) and Pakistan (green) finally into Arabian Sea. It clear that Indus defines Pakistan as it runs along the entire length of the country along it's central axis.

On the other hand Ganges defines India (thus our joking referance to India as Gangaland) coloured blue which runs into Bay of Bengal. The Indian's conflate these two giant rivers both flowing in opposite directions into two differant water bodies. In fact they claim whole of South Asia in vain attempt to appropriate the entire heritage of this sub continent in order to purchase it as "Indian". It's that simple. Any lay observer can see this fraud by looking at the actual geography.

Interestingly the capital of both India and Pakistan are astride these two rivers. Islamabad, Pakistan adjacent to Indus. New Delhi. India adjacent to Ganges. In addition Indian's regard Ganges as "Holy River" although they seem to overlook this. Please refer to map below.

Ganges River, India

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganges

 

[jetray]

@Samudra Manthan

Indian Hindus DO not have ANY doubts regarding India's nationhood

If other countries think otherwise they are simply delusional

Going by the garbage theory even germany,italy,french are not nations bcos most of them where divided into small confederates until 18th century. These are nothing but self satisfying delusional grand standing theories to justifying a existence of a particular country. If we go by their same logic the whole islamic world should be one country instead of being divided into many countries. Curious thing is these hypocrites claiming pagan past are the one who try to obliterate it at every given chance. Take the example of ISIS or taliban.

These Indian nationalist refuse to even accept physical facts of geography. Indus begins in China then flows into India then into Pakistan. Over 93% flows through Pakistan, 5% in India and another 2% in China where it's born. Yet the Indian's regard Indus as central to India. The fact is Indus is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. A quick glance at map of the Pakistan makes that pretty clear.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_River

Below is map of South Asia. Indus River can be seen flowing from China (red) India (saffron) and Pakistan (green) finally into Arabian Sea. It clear that Indus defines Pakistan as it runs along the entire length of the country along it's central axis.

On the other hand Ganges defines India (thus our joking referance to India as Gangaland) coloured blue which runs into Bay of Bengal. The Indian's conflate these two giant rivers both flowing in opposite directions into two differant water bodies. In fact they claim whole of South Asia in vain attempt to appropriate the entire heritage of this sub continent in order to purchase it as "Indian". It's that simple. Any lay observer can see this fraud by looking at the actual geography.

Interestingly the capital of both India and Pakistan and astride these two rivers. Islamabad, Pakistan adjacent to Indus. New Delhi. India adjacent to Ganges. In addition Indian's regard Ganges as "Holy River" although they seem to overlook this. Please refer to map below.

Ganges River, India

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganges

If Indus flows in pakistan rename it as India or Indus-stan why do you have the name as pakistan ?

And you forgot another river which is now dried up called Saraswathi. By the way its not only one river ganges that is holy to indians but there are seven sacred rivers including saraswathi.

Sindhudesh is also mentioned in mahabharata. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhu_Kingdom)

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Everything including Mars is Indian. chal ab bacha kush?

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Indus Valley/Pakistan part of Achaemenid Persia - Hendosh, Gandhara, Sattagydia etc

Indus Valley/Pakistan part of Alexander's Greek Empire

Lower Indus Valley/Pakistan - Sindh under Umayyad Caliphs.

Need more?

And don't forget to say big thank you to "Make India" by East India Company. Purveyors of tea, spices and Indian Republic.

A worker at "Make India".

[/QUOT

You need to get the whole sentence and figure out the key words. Here let me get it for you with highlights to make it easy: There were no significant long-lasting kingdoms, for instance, that ruled from Persia to the Ganges plain, or from Burma to Bengal, or from China or Tibet to Delhi.

We are talking about India here right? Not Pakistan. Even in case of Pakistan, these are brief interludes in a history spanning 3000 years.

@Samudra Manthan

Indian Hindus DO not have ANY doubts regarding India's nationhood

If other countries think otherwise they are simply delusional

You will be surprised as to how many Secular Hindus are in the dark about India's nationhood.

What defines a nation is that it is controlled by one central authority, such as Washington for America, Moscow for Russia, New Delhi for India, etc.

That is the concept of a State and not a Nation.

 

[Apprentice]

The idea of India failed on the map in 1947 and the continuing existence and sovereignty of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc defy the concept of India further.

Anyways, no practising Muslim will reject the concept of Islam being the basis of nationhood. India's basic principle is secularism: a concept all practising Muslims reject since it is antithetical to Islam.

Anyways, my ancestors were Kashmiri Pandits. In other words, they were high ranking priests of the Hindu religion. No Pakistani/Bangladeshi denies their Hindu ancestry, but spiritually we identify with the Muslims who invaded India centuries ago. They are our true pride.

These Indian nationalist refuse to even accept physical facts of geography. Indus begins in China then flows into India then into Pakistan. Over 93% flows through Pakistan, 5% in India and another 2% in China where it's born. Yet the Indian's regard Indus as central to India. The fact is Indus is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt. A quick glance at map of the Pakistan makes that pretty clear.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_River

Below is map of South Asia. Indus River can be seen flowing from China (red) India (saffron) and Pakistan (green) finally into Arabian Sea. It clear that Indus defines Pakistan as it runs along the entire length of the country along it's central axis.

On the other hand Ganges defines India (thus our joking referance to India as Gangaland) coloured blue which runs into Bay of Bengal. The Indian's conflate these two giant rivers both flowing in opposite directions into two differant water bodies. In fact they claim whole of South Asia in vain attempt to appropriate the entire heritage of this sub continent in order to purchase it as "Indian". It's that simple. Any lay observer can see this fraud by looking at the actual geography.

Interestingly the capital of both India and Pakistan are astride these two rivers. Islamabad, Pakistan adjacent to Indus. New Delhi. India adjacent to Ganges. In addition Indian's regard Ganges as "Holy River" although they seem to overlook this. Please refer to map below.

Ganges River, India

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganges

The Indus River has little to do with Pakistani identity. Its probably central to Sindhi or Punjabi identity, but not Pakistani.

Pakistan has always been more of an ideology rather than a geography.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I AM A MUSLIM and I AM PROUD TO BE INDIAN

We are happy for you. Ab Indian forums par ja kar Hindu'o ko apni baat sunao.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Classic case of sach sunne par "Mirch Lagna"

if any of the above have been false let me know. World works on numbers and numbers are in favor of India not in favor of faltu ka randirona.

Hindutva saffroni posing as Indian Muslim exposed.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Not just saffron, saffron white and green.
The earlier you come out of your pipe dream of heaven on earth the better. Lets talk numbers. Bring numbers to table and lets debate. lets debate on why Pakistan was created on numbers. Lets talk on stats and when i say stats i am talking about stats for muslims and muslims only. No india as a nation but just indian muslims.

Let me know what Pakistan achieved as a separate nation which Indians havent. Trust me i can give you 10.

if not then as i said before cry me a river.

Listen my bharti friend, If you are happy then why are you coming on here trying to compare statistics?

You can look at numbers all day and night, but we are happy with attaining freedom and our right to self-determination. The Kashmiris are trying to break away from your great nation as we speak.

 

[Hiptullha]

before the partition the entire subcontinent was roughly Indian and was associated with India.

Hah! Before the partition, the entire subcontinent was British Indian. It's rich seeing Indians complain about British messing around with their history and culture when it's the British who constructed the entire India narrative. There's a reason people associate the the Mughals, the Bengal tigers, the elephants, the turbans and the palaces with India.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Freedom... really?? The kind of freedom you have in Pakistan?? Really?? Should i burst the freedom bubble starting with blasphemy laws or the freedom from life itself.

Lol world work on numbers not on fake pipe dreams. Pakistanis as people are formattted by their establishment to work on emotions not on human logic and maths.

According to Pakistani logic Kashmir is breaking away for past 70 years. Didint happen, wont gonna happen.

And this ladies and gentlemen is the by-product of Indian media.

 

[Hiptullha]

You gave your answer in the bold.

India is associated with hell lot many things.

Only an Indian would delightfully tack on the prefix of British to India if it meant that his "Akhand Bharat" fantasy would be fulfilled.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Yes sucide blasts never happen in Pakistan. Blasphemy laws do not exists.

Kudos i know heaven on earth now

And full on gang-rapes on public transit and burning of dalits do not occur in India.

You know If you are proud of being Indian that's fine, but we don't want to be called Indian. Names are what other people give you. We identify ourselves as Pakistanis.

Americans aren't reminded by the British that they are or were British. That's why they fought a war for their independence. I guess the disassociation to India hurts your fragile little egos. I can do nothing except apologize for that.

 

[Max]

before the partition the entire subcontinent was roughly Indian and was associated with India.

Again your understanding of India is different from, Pakistanis, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshis, Nepalese.. you look at it as one single entity while we see it as a continent or subcontinent.. and we have proofs to back it up..

for example even during British rule there were more then 500 princely states with own rulers what you called now one entity..

before British India there was Sikh empire in Punjab. Talpur Dynasty in Sindh, Durrani in KPK, Khanate in Baluchistan? where was Republic of India or India as one entity?

Even during Mughal rule, there were maratha state along with many rajput kingdom, most of them were allies of mughals while rest were fighting against Mughals..

India, Indian subcontinent stand for a geographical region not for a country or single entity, Just like Asia, Europe, Just bcoz India adopted British name for its country does not make it owner of word India and its history,


History belongs to the people of particular land.. Land of Indus and its all achievements belongs to Pakistan..

Land of Ganga. or Ganga valley and its achievement belongs to India..

As much the Pakistani members would try and disassociate themselves they cannot escape the mixed history of the subcontinent. At some point of the other geographical boundaries have changed and the entire culture has been mixed up.

world is mixing with each other as always, same with Arabs and Persian and other neighbors, but that does not mean that one should start claiming cultures, history of others as its own..

Hence one of the reasons that one would see a brigade in likes of Pakistan hell bent on proving their Arabic ancestory or to find their history in the history of middle east and Afghanistan (you can look at the name of missiles)

There maybe 2% or at maximum 5% foreigner while rest are local and proud.. can you deny that mongol Hazara live in Baluchistan? can you deny Pushtun tribes having Iranic background? same with Balochs?

At the end of the day the legacy of Budha is as much Indian as that of Nepal. India as a nation has extended extensively and Indians as people do not have to associate or disassociate with current day Pakistan or Bangladesh or Nepal for that matter. Having said that India does not claim to what happened in Pakistan post its creation. It is all Pakistan.

again trying to steal history of other peoples..