Why India has been forced into defensive posture against Pakistan (explaination thread)

[SuvarnaTeja]

India has good military experts and thinkers but this current crop of rulers are just civilians meaning they are populists straight from the local streets the capable politicians have been usurped.. Yogi could be elected next and his not a politician but a priest

May be but they are nowhere to be seen in the higher positions which are all being filled by Modi's yes Masters who have poor judgment, failure to learn from experience, pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, lack of remorse or shame, impulsivity, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, manipulative behavior.


May be @Joe Shearer can throw some light.

 

[Joe Shearer]

May be but they are nowhere to be seen in the higher positions which are all being filled by Modi's yes Masters who have poor judgment, failure to learn from experience, pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love, lack of remorse or shame, impulsivity, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, manipulative behavior.


May be @Joe Shearer can throw some light.

What light?

Each word of your post was like a whip-lash.

There are still decent officers in the higher echelons, but there were more than sycophants than we can imagine. One of them was decorated post-retirement, and his photographs are in all the papers.

While the situation is less serious in the services than in almost all other institutions, it may still be necessary to put in checks and balances against the kind of motivated mindset that has been on display in various places.

We should learn from object lessons that have been on display very prominently near us that a politicised military is a losing military. That includes the politicised PLA.

Sending aid alone is not good enough, general opinion between Afghans regarding Pakistan is rock bottom, they need to tackle this narrative to make any Afghan-Pak relationship sustainable. If the Taliban themselves cannot publicly state any possible co-operation, or even just neutrality with Pakistan, then the relationship is too fragile for it to be reliable.

In all honesty, if India was in this position, the narrative would've been broken down relatively easily over time. Pakistan is nowhere to be seen in the media warfare.

The matter is worse than you imagine, worse from your national point of view.

Given any administration other than the Islamophobic dunderheads (two separate handicaps, please note), by now the relationship between Afghanistan and her historically hated neighbour would have absorbed the 100 Yugoslav tanks and much, much more. Only the incompetence of the performing monkeys in parts of the South Block shields people from this accelerated programme.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am glad you said it, please check out the thread on pdf on the aid we gave to them and the replies there or the responses where we organized events like OIC submit.

Did we project the aid, OIC summit as confidence building measures and tried to build a narrative around it?

India built a fucking library and act as it was feeding entire Afghanistan.

Narrative is half part of the war.

Please permit me to correct you.

Except with the possible exception of that poor, deranged clown, G. D. Bakshi, India does not have sexual performance in mind when building libraries. Other countries in the neighbourhood might want to take this on board; it might help them improve the condition of its educational institutions, and increase the eagerness with which its graduates are sought in the world markets.

Point to the thread and I'll read it, I have not even once seen an Afghan say one positive thing about Pakistan even WITH those things in mind, they simply don't care and stick with the racist views they hold. I've spoken to too many like this.

It's a good gesture, but that alone is not enough, you must address the core of their beliefs also.

Harsh truths are never liked.

 

[khansaheeb]

I have seen multiple indian intellectuals they agree with this ground reality..

India can't simply fight Pakistan with offensive doctrine it is conventionally impossible by default with an stragetic depth an impregnatable fortress Terrain.. There approach is to bait Pakistan into an offensive from a defensive posture and counter attack slowly

Nothing to do with strategic depth, Pakistanis are too tough to mess with as the Indians have found out many times during incursions and war. The other thing Indians are mindful of is that Pakistan is a good buffer keeping the crazy Mullah Afghans away from the Indian border. Last time the Afghans crossed into India they stayed there for a thousand years.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Because we do not know how to build a narrative.

When the government tries to do so many of us stand against it.

Is it possible to consider a radical formulation? Maybe the genuine element in an input builds the narrative. Maybe when people go in without ulterior motives - the hack phrase 'strategic depth' comes to mind - there might be recognition even among those elements normally bitterly hostile to the actors.

A possibility.

There is something called being too clever by half.

Then why talk nuclear..

Why indeed?

 

[TheSolution]

Is it possible to consider a radical formulation? Maybe the genuine element in an input builds the narrative. Maybe when people go in without ulterior motives - the hack phrase 'strategic depth' comes to mind - there might be recognition even among those elements normally bitterly hostile to the actors.

A possibility.

There is something called being too clever by half.


Why indeed?

With Afghans the narrative is not supposed to be built domestically, Pakistan has generally been supportive of Afghanistan and Afghans but it was when they started becoming hostile this changed.

There is no reason as to why Pakistan wouldn't accept Afghanistan with open arms if they changed this attitude.

I've written a post on how to do this already based on what I think is effective. Most of the narrative is already genuine, Pakistan has never had ill intentions regarding Afghanistan, it has been the opposite.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Then why talk nuclear..

Why indeed?

With Afghans the narrative is not supposed to be built domestically, Pakistan has generally been supportive of Afghanistan and Afghans but it was when they started becoming hostile this changed.

There is no reason as to why Pakistan wouldn't accept Afghanistan with open arms if they changed this attitude.

I've written a post on how to do this already based on what I think is effective. Most of the narrative is already genuine, Pakistan has never had ill intentions regarding Afghanistan, it has been the opposite.

The point I had hoped to make was that in a clumsy, awkward way, India tried to do things that would be helpful, but still avoid military collaboration (there were about half-a-dozen obsolete helicopters, and a small number of graduates in officer training programmes). If anyone cares to check, the rest of the input was hospitals, power stations and roads. Even this led to casualties, among civilians, as only civilians were involved (one exception was a senior doctor deputed to build the medical facility that was planned for Kabul).

It is certain that the Taliban were, and are, aware of what was done, and, more important, what was not done. I believe one or two of them are actually literate, and might have read about Indian resistance to become US stooges, still an Indian bugbear, except among those off-the-street scumbags who have got importance lately.

The conclusion that I am suggesting to you is that far from seeking geo-political advantage, India tried in its own shambling, disorganised fashion to do good things. I hope by now the addled brains who counted 22 consulates or meeting points in place of five have been retired, and are busy growing plants that give pleasure and enjoyment to much of the western world. That will be a more profitable occupation for them than having to think of a new atrocity tale every morning before or by their morning cuppa (it has been conveyed that tea fulfils an important role in administrative dynamics).

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan should occupy a buffer zone in Afghanistan, just like Turkey has done so in Syria, so as to use it both for preventing attacks from Afghanistan and also to use it as strategic depth.

Create a DMZ on Afghanistan side. Afghanistan need to assign border guard on their side to prevent terrorist attacks.