Why Doesn't Pakistan Issue MMRCA Tender?

[desiman]

The thread was derailed by the likes of you. We dont need you telling us what we can handle and what we cannot. Hope my words are simple enough for you to comprehend this time.



No its the hollow egos of many Indians that gets in the way, including your own.

Bro I am talking from the experience i have and by stating the capacity of the PAF i dont mean to demean it in any way. Your taking me in the wrong manner. If i said that the IAF can handle anything then that would be wrong also. All airforces in the world have their capacity, even the US air force does, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[pakistantiger]

aks dont say like dat even all indians are invisible on this earth because they use invisible ink lyk tom and jerry cartoons

 

[Mani2020]

It appears that there is a typing error. Please note that Pakistan didnot have F-16's in 1972.

It was actually an F-6 ( Mig -19) rebuild factory. Todate Pakistan does not have F-16 rebuild capability.

Sir i have taken this article from the official site of PAC i have provided the link u can yourself check it out

but i agree it might b a typing error

 

[TaimiKhan]

Bro I am talking from the experience i have and by stating the capacity of the PAF i dont mean to demean it in any way. Your taking me in the wrong manner. If i said that the IAF can handle anything then that would be wrong also. All airforces in the world have their capacity, even the US air force does, there is nothing wrong with that.

Would you plz enlighten us as when you got commission in the PAF or atleast give us a hint that in what project you were involved, or atleast tell us where you working at AWC, NESCOM, PAC or which organization. As your experience with PAF would be very beneficial for us in learning about PAF as we have no idea what the PAF capability is.

Many thanks.

 

[TaimiKhan]

can i have a source for that please???
I highly doubt that.

Well in your doubt is our success, as you guys would keep thinking that PAF doesn't knows about the flying characteristics of Su-30s, while when we meet in battle, we will know about its flying characteristics.

Ok, tell me a source which says, PAF loaned the F-16 to China or China had a deep look into this aircraft. An official source please. Not one, which says rumored, or by looking at JF-17s wings or something like that.

And lets support, even if we had let them have a peep into the F-16s, then what will stop CAF in giving us a look into a plane which our adversary flies and their adversary too.

Just to give you a head start, go to www.f-16.net and search for Pakistani pilots of F-16s, there would will see pilots current assignment mentioning flying Su-30s in China, one should ask why did a reputable website like the above one mentioned such a thing.

 

[desiman]

Would you plz enlighten us as when you got commission in the PAF or atleast give us a hint that in what project you were involved, or atleast tell us where you working at AWC, NESCOM, PAC or which organization. As your experience with PAF would be very beneficial for us in learning about PAF as we have no idea what the PAF capability is.

Many thanks.

Can i tell you that i work with Textron, which closely works with LM which makes the F-16. News tends to fly around in circles my friend and the PAF is a hot topic for all Indian and Pakistani employees and believe me there are a lot of us lol. Again you are getting me wrong Taimi, my point is that PAF is very good at what is does but maintaining more than a certain amount of jets is quite tough.Currently the PAF's maintenance record is very good because the average time spent by each tech vs the amount of planes is comparatively high. I am sure any PAF personnel from here can vouch for that. Its in PAF interest that it maintaining a good number of jets but does not try to compete with India in terms of quantity. Every technician or employee has a work limit and the PAF has a limit to how it can hire so does the IAF. This is not an accusation on the PAF, but a mere logistical fact. I dont know why some members are being so defensive about this.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Can i tell you that i work with Textron, which closely works with LM which makes the F-16. News tends to fly around in circles my friend and the PAF is a hot topic for all Indian and Pakistani employees and believe me there are a lot of us lol. Again you are getting me wrong Taimi, my point is that PAF is very good at what is does but maintaining more than a certain amount of jets is quite tough.Currently the PAF's maintenance record is very good because the average time spent by each tech vs the amount of planes is comparatively high. I am sure any PAF personnel from here can vouch for that. Its in PAF interest that it maintaining a good number of jets but does not try to compete with India in terms of quantity. Every technician or employee has a work limit and the PAF has a limit to how it can hire so does the IAF. This is not an accusation on the PAF, but a mere logistical fact. I dont know why some members are being so defensive about this.

Well do you know PAF has nearly more then 2 times the strength of pilots compared to the aircraft it has. Do you know in the 2001-02 standoff with India, China supplied dozens of brand new F-7s/J-7s to PAF, i was told of a figure or 100+ fighters provided, hope a more internal source can give a more accurate figure, but that one shipment alone made PAF strength raise by many Sqds.

So my point is, that due to this reason alone, PAF has the pilot number strength more so that in case of a war, if its airframe get an uplift which it will, there are sufficient number of pilots who can fly them.

And PAF if has the funds, will have no issue in acquiring extra aircraft compared to its sanctioned strength, and these extra aircraft can be kept stored in battle worthy condition and even can be flown very nominally to keep them in shape and used incase of war. All the airforces around the world, keep a specific reserve number of aircraft, which are to be used in case of war.

When JF-17s will get inducted, the A-5s aren't gonna go extinct right away, some numbers would be kept in reserve, in flight worthy condition for a few years, in case they are needed, even in case of JF-17, hope so extra numbers would be made and kept in case of an emergency arises.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Well in your doubt is our success, as you guys would keep thinking that PAF doesn't knows about the flying characteristics of Su-30s, while when we meet in battle, we will know about its flying characteristics.

Ok, tell me a source which says, PAF loaned the F-16 to China or China had a deep look into this aircraft. An official source please. Not one, which says rumored, or by looking at JF-17s wings or something like that.

And lets support, even if we had let them have a peep into the F-16s, then what will stop CAF in giving us a look into a plane which our adversary flies and their adversary too.

Just to give you a head start, go to www.f-16.net and search for Pakistani pilots of F-16s, there would will see pilots current assignment mentioning flying Su-30s in China, one should ask why did a reputable website like the above one mentioned such a thing.

I couldn't find a thing on that site that proves that PAF pilots are flying Su30 in China.
May be a link from you would help.

Also sitting in a plane or getting photographed with it is just not the same as knowing a plane inside out. Knowing a plane requires months or experience with it. Saying that PAF pilots know know all about Su30 MKI would be joking, since not even US knows much about it, even though their pilots have flown our Su30.

Sending F-16 tech to China was beneficial for Pak, since its JF-17 development was based on it. But letting PAF pilots fly Chinese planes would not be beneficial for China. Why would they do it??

 

[P4Pakistan]

and then Russia backed off when India objected and when Russia saw that by selling a few planes to that PAF, Russia will loose out on the monsters deals that it gets from India. PAF did evaluate the jets, plain and simple, they were to expensive for them at that time. Please educate yourself too, there are more than a few people here who know their history.

naan na n a , first of all if u have a brain so plese him!
second it wasn't russia but ukraine,
why PAF reject? becauze still 1947 ...we are using western and a few chinese technologie(with lot of modification) so better was to use western platform, becauze PAF have lot of experience on them!
-Second these flying coffins mantenance cost very much!
-third ,u will cry, and piss in ur paint if we bought something, and we don't want that(waste of nappy)!!

hope u understand even if you have a endians mentality!!!

Pakistan zindabad!!

 

[desiman]

Well do you know PAF has nearly more then 2 times the strength of pilots compared to the aircraft it has. Do you know in the 2001-02 standoff with India, China supplied dozens of brand new F-7s/J-7s to PAF, i was told of a figure or 100+ fighters provided, hope a more internal source can give a more accurate figure, but that one shipment alone made PAF strength raise by many Sqds.

So my point is, that due to this reason alone, PAF has the pilot number strength more so that in case of a war, if its airframe get an uplift which it will, there are sufficient number of pilots who can fly them.

And PAF if has the funds, will have no issue in acquiring extra aircraft compared to its sanctioned strength, and these extra aircraft can be kept stored in battle worthy condition and even can be flown very nominally to keep them in shape and used incase of war. All the airforces around the world, keep a specific reserve number of aircraft, which are to be used in case of war.

When JF-17s will get inducted, the A-5s aren't gonna go extinct right away, some numbers would be kept in reserve, in flight worthy condition for a few years, in case they are needed, even in case of JF-17, hope so extra numbers would be made and kept in case of an emergency arises.

nice points Taimi but i kind of knew them from before again we are arguing about two different things here and using too many variables, better to rest this argument before i have to ban you You are right in your way and i think im right in mine, so we both win yayyyy now its time for some tea coffee with desi

 

[desiman]

naan na n a , first of all if u have a brain so plese him!
second it wasn't russia but ukraine,
why PAF reject? becauze still 1947 ...we are using western and a few chinese technologie(with lot of modification) so better was to use western platform, becauze PAF have lot of experience on them!
-Second these flying coffins mantenance cost very much!
-third ,u will cry, and piss in ur paint if we bought something, and we don't want that(waste of nappy)!!

hope u understand even if you have a endians mentality!!!

Pakistan zindabad!!

sorry bro too much patriotism in this post to reply constructively too, you win be happy

 

[TaimiKhan]

I couldn't find a thing on that site that proves that PAF pilots are flying Su30 in China.
May be a link from you would help.

Also sitting in a plane or getting photographed with it is just not the same as knowing a plane inside out. Knowing a plane requires months or experience with it. Saying that PAF pilots know know all about Su30 MKI would be joking, since not even US knows much about it, even though their pilots have flown our Su30.

Sending F-16 tech to China was beneficial for Pak, since its JF-17 development was based on it. But letting PAF pilots fly Chinese planes would not be beneficial for China. Why would they do it??

And what would be the harm to China in letting us fly it ?? If China can help us in all sectors of military, then what harm is gonna come to them if they let us know about an aircraft which their adversary and Pakistan adversary flies and would be one of their front line fighters.

And i did said the flight characteristics, not the avionics, did said the difference we would not know would be the avionics.

And i am not talking about the pilots sitting in cockpits and having photographs, as there is none, otherwise these show shaaa kind of pictures would have been circulating by now.

There may be lot of things that you guys don't know about IAF even though you live in India or you are patriotic Indian, similarly, there are a lot of things which we as Pakistanis don't know generally nor does our enemy knows, but we get these little bit of information from people who have inside links.

A lot of guys on this forum are not sure, if the H2/H4 series of BVR weapon systems of PAF are land attack weapons or are they A2A weapons, does anyone knows what is the operational status of Ra'ad ALCM ?? No official source available, so something are kept secret, neither will PAF tell its full capabilities or even the real strength of its fighter aircraft, nor will IAF.

And here you go with your link, which you couldn't find.

http://www.f-16.net/pilots-profile2105.html

 

[Moscow]

Well AV, i hope your account has not been hacked and it is really you who is posting, as i don't remember you posting like the above stuff, or may be the Indian mentality has influenced you and we are seeing this change.

Anyway, buying no Russian aircraft had many reasons to it, major thing being unreliability of different factors.

And as for Flankers, plz note, PAF pilots are even now flying the Su-27s and Su-30s in Chinese service and know its capability. The only difference would be the difference in avionics.

And would be helpful that you quit your these sarcastic posts as its ruining your image which you had before.

hello sir its me AV<Moscow> posting now why do you think i am being sarcastic you should have considered the state of russian economy and the armed forces and manufactures in the 90,s it was sad to see the sorry state then but it was reality and at that given point in time russia was willing to share any class of higher technology inexchange for few dollars that would keep the industry alive

now you got the wrong impression of my post if you think seriously had paf ordered a few flankers then the idea would have been to open the russian market for pakistan , bilateral relationships start with a few steps a dozen flankers for study and exploration purpose would have brought pakistan closer to russia then and that that time pakistan had the money nor were the equipment as costly as now the chinese used the sorry state of russian firms to full advantage the indians realized later but they too used it for their benefit but pakistan missed the trick....
think now what india is doing they are able to influence many countries because of their purchasing power and previous relationship take the example of ukraine, india was not even close to them now to shut out the pakistani market in the future they have gone too cordial with them and even orderded them major projects only condition being to shut off pakistan sales ever in the future ....

now sir does my post find some logical meaning or its still sarcastic
anyway it was good to know that you think i can make some better posts ,thank you for that.

now pakistan missed the boat its true cannot deny that

 

[TaimiKhan]

hello sir its me AV<Moscow> posting now why do you think i am being sarcastic you should have considered the state of russian economy and the armed forces and manufactures in the 90,s it was sad to see the sorry state then but it was reality and at that given point in time russia was willing to share any class of higher technology inexchange for few dollars that would keep the industry alive

now you got the wrong impression of my post if you think seriously had paf ordered a few flankers then the idea would have been to open the russian market for pakistan , bilateral relationships start with a few steps a dozen flankers for study and exploration purpose would have brought pakistan closer to russia then and that that time pakistan had the money nor were the equipment as costly as now the chinese used the sorry state of russian firms to full advantage the indians realized later but they too used it for their benefit but pakistan missed the trick....
think now what india is doing they are able to influence many countries because of their purchasing power and previous relationship take the example of ukraine, india was not even close to them now to shut out the pakistani market in the future they have gone too cordial with them and even orderded them major projects only condition being to shut off pakistan sales ever in the future ....

now sir does my post find some logical meaning or its still sarcastic
anyway it was good to know that you think i can make some better posts ,thank you for that.

now pakistan missed the boat its true cannot deny that

Russia had long been an Indian ally, she wouldn't had become so much cordial to sell us such advanced aircraft and even if it had, we would have been in deep trouble, knowingly we did not go for this option.

And what is India gonna do to keep Pakistan out, keep buying everything from around the world from everyone so that just to keep Pakistani not getting its hand on things, and then what will India become in a few years time, another junk yard of weapon systems bought from every corner of the world just to not let Pakistan get its hand, and then what about the Indian local industry, if they keep buying when will they give chance to their local industry to develop.

So to shut out Pakistan, it will buy from the US, it will buy from Russia, it will buy from Ukraine, it will buy from Europe, if am missing some other country, plzz do let me know. And after a decade or so, what will India become, and what about the operational matters, India will keep running around to get spares and this stuff and that stuff. China is US biggest trade partner, but it still selling advanced weapons to Taiwan, does China say am not gonna trade with you or what.

As the Indians do more of this stuff, it helps us more as we go more towards China and self reliance and with passage of time will help our local industry.

Due to Indian decisions to buy from US, Russia sold us the RD-93 engines, it gave us Mi-17s, i believe even though Russian technology is there in our IL-78 MRTTs.

So if India starts buying more from around the world, companies share of sales would shrink and they would have to need to sell weapons even if it is Pakistan with a small amount of 500M or 1B as India can't keep everyone happy.

 

[Moscow]

Russia had long been an Indian ally, she wouldn't had become so much cordial to sell us such advanced aircraft and even if it had, we would have been in deep trouble, knowingly we did not go for this option.

And what is India gonna do to keep Pakistan out, keep buying everything from around the world from everyone so that just to keep Pakistani not getting its hand on things, and then what will India become in a few years time, another junk yard of weapon systems bought from every corner of the world just to not let Pakistan get its hand, and then what about the Indian local industry, if they keep buying when will they give chance to their local industry to develop.

So to shut out Pakistan, it will buy from the US, it will buy from Russia, it will buy from Ukraine, it will buy from Europe, if am missing some other country, plzz do let me know. And after a decade or so, what will India become, and what about the operational matters, India will keep running around to get spares and this stuff and that stuff. China is US biggest trade partner, but it still selling advanced weapons to Taiwan, does China say am not gonna trade with you or what.

As the Indians do more of this stuff, it helps us more as we go more towards China and self reliance and with passage of time will help our local industry.

Due to Indian decisions to buy from US, Russia sold us the RD-93 engines, it gave us Mi-17s, i believe even though Russian technology is there in our IL-78 MRTTs.

So if India starts buying more from around the world, companies share of sales would shrink and they would have to need to sell weapons even if it is Pakistan with a small amount of 500M or 1B as India can't keep everyone happy.

soviet union and russia are different countries
now the part in bold the US was a long ally of pakistan especially for weapon purchases why did india go allout to woo them
doesnt US sell to both india and pakistan and too advanced weapons
sir MONEY SPEAKS,WALKS,RUNS and does everything that one can possibly imagine

about buying out weapons thats a small sphere in the present era the world is one big place either you are together or you are against it does not apply only to weapons purchase if you develop a relationship with a country on one dimension it leads to nowhere
what many countries are doing now is multi-oriented relationship including weapons,trade,medical,logistics,engineering,study,cultural
what the chinese and india is doing now you can failrly understand they are using their human resource to full effect to weed out contenders buying weapons is only a small part of the whole wheel
you order 14 planes also offer 50 students to study for free in your country,offer medical discounts,make a big tourism plan for their citizens,
send engineers to work and learn , organize cultural club make joint movies and whats the result you can see
the russian-indian relation previous to this decade was buy and sell now its INDIA FIRST , indian goods are given preference,tax excemptions,free visas for workers,traders , indian movies showing up here how do you say that ...

shutting out a country is by means of changing the opinion of the masses to your favour thats what china is doing in its way thats what the US did for ages , thats what the soviet union did in the 70s the soviets has 7,000 indian daily newspapers on their payrolls < imagine that how to influence public opinion>
take ukraine how russian managed to make them turn around in so less time

pakistan missed the boat in the 90s it could have started as a gamble, moved on to trade , person to person relationship cultural and by 2010 today we could have seen RUSSIAN-INDIA PAKFA and RUSSIAN-PAKISTAN MIG LMFS flying

i find this really logical how pakistan missed the chance today russian could have helped with a cheaper and better solution for the JF-17 after the french put on hold its about long term planning the chinese are doing it why cant pakistan ?