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Why China’s first stealth fighter was rushed into service with inferior engines

We don't doubt China's advancement and capabilities for one moment. It is only a matter of time before we see J-20 with Chinese engines. Unlike US fanfare the Chinese are taking their time and producing a mature and reliable product. A nation that can build a 5th Gen aircraft from scratch in such an incredibly short time can achieve all kinds of miracles.

The J-20 already has the WS-15, the top intel of the US already knows it.

Only their tabloid media is still acting like a bunch of oblivious jerks, but their top military leaders are already taking the J-20 very seriously.

The J-20 is already superior to the F-22, that's why the US right now needs to rush to the 6th gen aircraft.

And they have realized that even China's 6th gen program right now is ahead of theirs.
 
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The J-20 is already having the WS-15, the top intel of the US already knows it.

Only their tabloid media is still acting like a bunch of oblivious jerks, but their top military leaders are already taking the J-20 very seriously.

The J-20 is already superior to the F-22, that's why the US right now needs to rush to the 6th gen aircraft.

And they have realized that even China's 6th gen program right now is ahead of theirs.

The Americans are losing in a whole host of areas. From technology to respect. Technology should be their least concern right now.

They have a clown leader that is openly racist, sexist and xenophobic. I don't even have to explain myself because it is so obvious.

China has caught up incredibly fast. China is humble and doesn't interfere. Instead, it shares prosperity. This is nothing short of a miracle. China is a miracle. The US is a despot under Trump.
 
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The Americans are losing in a whole host of areas. From technology to respect. Technology should be their least concern right now.

They have a clown leader that is openly racist, sexist and xenophobic. I don't even have to explain myself because it is so obvious.

China has caught up incredibly fast. China is humble and doesn't interfere. Instead, it shares prosperity. This is nothing short of a miracle. China is a miracle. The US is a despot under Trump.

China triumphing the US in the railgun development is just the beginning, and expect China to pull more moments like this in the future. Soon, many more things will follow suit like the railgun.

Uncle Sam is simply losing its momentum. With or without Trump, the result will be the same, except with Trump, their decline has been accelerated.

Not true. He has the power to dictate the papers views. He could easily replaced manyof the writers but choose not to. Just another typical business man

Just look at the military forums like 超级大本营,they only care about the viewership and rating, yet they got no principle of exposing the fake news, yet they just let the fake news spread like wildfire in order to increase their viewership.

The behavior of the pure commercialization is very disgusting, it is money above anything else, including the principle and morality.
 
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Why are Western fanboys in the rush and use inferior sources like SCMP with limited reliability and poor quality controll to post negative articles about Chinas military advancements?

"two independent military sources"
That could just as well refer to some random clueless nuts who once served the U.S. army and now dedicate their sad life to some anti chinese conspiracy blogs or some clueless anti chinese Gordon Changs writing for another paper dedicated to publishing military news or articles and amounts to absolutely nothing for this fake rumor they are trying to push. How dumb are the people taking this stuff serious?
 
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Just look at the military forums like 超级大本营,they only care about the viewership and rating, yet they got no principle of exposing the fake news, yet they just let the fake news spread like wildfire in order to increase their viewership.

The behavior of the pure commercialization is very disgusting, it is money above anything else, including the principle and morality.
And now you know why I dispise private corp. Typical business men have no love for their country. If they were involved in top secret military projects they would no doubt sell it to the enemy.
 
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And now you know why I dispise private corp. Typical business men have no love for their country. If they were involved in top secret military projects they would no doubt sell it to the enemy.

Keep letting the fake news to smear the technological achievement of their motherland shows that they have no sense of pride at all.
 
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Seems like a high embarrassing moment for the Chinese and potentially signs that the future of the PLAAF may not be as bright as some PDF fans assumed it to be. I can foresee the Chinese being sucked into more Russian-led contracts just to get access to advanced engines.
 
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Seems like a high embarrassing moment for the Chinese and potentially signs that the future of the PLAAF may not be as bright as some PDF fans assumed it to be. I can foresee the Chinese being sucked into more Russian-led contracts just to get access to advanced engines.

We're embarrassed by such insignificant claim? we will be really embarrassed if our airplane are nailed into ground with no engine but our J-20 flight flawlessly, as one said "battle field make great soldier", we push J-20 into service to really gauge it potential and make improvement, if we expect every thing to be perfect before operate J-20, US will already start to operate their 6th gen fighter by then.

Regarding Russian engine it's just a nice to have but not be the "must" to have, we can live with or without Russian engine.
 
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Seems like a high embarrassing moment for the Chinese and potentially signs that the future of the PLAAF may not be as bright as some PDF fans assumed it to be.
Embarrassing? The only embarrassment is suffered by those who take Minnie Chan and SCMP seriously. But then again they're probably too stupid to feel embarrassed, just like the brainless troll OP.
I can foresee the Chinese being sucked into more Russian-led contracts just to get access to advanced engines.
You should spare yourself such embarrassment and foresee again.
 
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China rushed its first advanced stealth fighter jet into service ahead of schedule last year, using stopgap engines, in the face of rising security challenges in the region, the South China Morning Post has learned.

But that means its capabilities will be severely limited, affecting its manoeuvrability and fuel efficiency as well as its stealthiness at supersonic speeds.

Without saying how many were in operation, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force confirmed on Friday that the J-20, the country’s fifth-generation fighter, had entered combat service, meaning it was combat-ready.

However, the aircraft was equipped with inferior engines designed for earlier warplanes when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed, two independent military sources told the Post.

“The WS-15 engine designed for the J-20 exploded during a ground running test in 2015,” one source said, adding that no one was injured in the accident.

“The explosion indicated the WS-15 is not reliable, and so far there is no fundamental solution to overcome such a problem … that’s why the J-20 is using WS-10B engines now.”

The WS-10B is a modified version of the WS-10 Taihang engine, which was designed for the country’s fourth-generation J-10 and J-11 fighters.

The explosion was confirmed by another source close to the military, who said the reasons it happened were complicated, with one being the quality control of its single-crystal turbine blades, the key component for such a powerful turbofan engine.

The new-generation, single-crystal turbine blades designed for the WS-15 were supposed to be able to cope with the increased mechanical loads caused by significantly higher rotational speeds and extremely high temperatures.

Former Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) chairman Lin Zuoming told state media last year that China’s third-generation single-crystal turbine blades could withstand temperatures of up to 3,632 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 degrees Celsius) in WS-10 engines, extending the engine’s lifespan from 800 hours to 1,500 hours when compared with those using the previous generation of turbine blade.

However, the thrust-to-weight ratio of the original WS-10 engine was only 7.5, while that of the WS-10B tops out at about nine. The thrust-to-weight ratio of the all-direction, vector turbofan WS-15 Emei engine is more than 10 – one of the basic requirements for giving the J-20 “supercruise” ability.

Supercruise allows stealth fighters like the US’ F-22 Raptor to fly at supersonic speeds without using afterburners, making them harder to detect. The F-22 is powered by the world’s most advanced jet engine, the Pratt & Whitney F119.

But achieving supercruise would require the single-crystal turbine blades of the WS-15 engine to cope with temperatures even more extreme than those handled by the WS-10.

“Chinese technicians are able to produce cutting-edge-quality single-crystal turbine blades when concentrating on a specific single item,” the second military source said. “But they’ve still failed to turn the advanced technology into a standard product for mass production. It’s a bottleneck problem that needs more time to overcome after countless experiments and tests, based on Western experiences.”

“Using the WS-10B engines is just a temporary, expedient stage of the J-20’s engine development … in the future, the aircraft may use another new engine, the improved performance engine (IPE) version of the WS-10, the WS-10 IPE, until the development of the WS-15 is successful,” the first source said.

“It’s so embarrassing to change engines for such an important aircraft project several times … just because of the unreliability of the current WS-15 engines. It is the long-standing core problem among home-grown aircraft.”

It is at least the third time the J-20 has changed engines. The aircraft’s maiden flight was powered by two Russian AL-31 engines, which are less capable than China’s WS-10B.

Russia has refused to export its most advanced engines to China because they are the core technology of its aviation industry. That prompted China to develop an indigenous alternative, the WS-15, as part of its drive towards producing one of the world’s most advanced combat aircraft.

Beijing has stepped up the development of sophisticated jet engines since the turn of the century, with at least 150 billion yuan (US$23.7 billion) invested between 2010 and 2015, military insiders told the Post in 2016.

State-owned Aero Engine, a company formed in August 2016 through the merger of 24 AVIC subsidiaries with about 10,000 employees, has led China’s development and production of aircraft engines and gas turbines in recent years. One of the former AVIC subsidiaries, Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute, developed the WS-10 and WS-15.

China Central Television boasted last year that the performance of the WS-15 had matched that of the F119, with a documentary aired in May claiming the WS-15 engines would be widely used in the J-20 by 2020.

That would make China the third country to have a fifth-generation fighter – after the US and Russia. Justin Bronk, a research fellow specialising in combat air power at the Royal United Services Institute, told Business Insider the design of the J-20 gave it “longer range, more internal fuel capacity, and larger internal weapons capability” than its US counterparts, the F-22 and F-35, and that meant it presented a real threat to US forces in the Pacific.

However, military analysts said it was too early for such prognostications because the underdeveloped WS-15 engine was not yet as sophisticated as the F119, which had a lifespan of more than 4,000 hours.

The prototype of Russia’s first fifth-generation fighter jet, the Su-57, took to the air for the first time in January 2010 but its maiden flight powered by the new Izdelie 30 engine, which was specially designed for it, only took place last month. The new engine will enable the Su-57 to achieve supercruise speed and fly consistently at 1,242mph (2,000km/h), but it still faces many tests, with the Russia Beyond website saying it would not be mounted on the Su-57 before 2019 or 2020.

China’s WS-15 project started in the 1990s, with the first prototype delivered in 2004 and the first successful ground-running test staged in 2015, Antony Wong Dong, a Macau-based military observer, said.

“China took 11 years to test the WS-15 after its prototype was created,” Wong said. “It’s very normal to take three to eight years for further development.

“And it’s still a significant achievement for China to develop the WS-10B as a stopgap for the J-20. China’s advanced aircraft engine technology foundation is very weak because its research and development started several decades later than its Western counterparts.”

America’s Pratt & Whitney and General Electric spent more than 12 years developing prototypes of the F119 engine in the 1980s, followed by another 14 years of testing after the engine’s maiden flight, fitted to an F-22, in September 1997.

The US also began developing the F-35, a single-seat, single-engine, all-weather stealth multirole fighter in the 1990s, with the first squadron – using Pratt & Whitney F135 engines, a derivative of the F119, joining its air force in 2016.

The US has started deploying F-35s at its military bases in the Asia-Pacific region, with 12 arriving at the Kadena Air Base in Japan in November. South Korea has said it plans to take delivery of 40 F-35s this year.

Earlier reports said Japan’s Maritime Self-Defence Force was also considering buying the F-35B “jump jet” version for its two new 25,000 tonne, flat-topped Izumo-class helicopter carriers. That pushed Beijing to put the J-20 into service as early as possible, military sources said.

Andrei Chang, editor-in-chief of Canadian-based Kanwa Asian Defence, said the J-20 might need at least eight years to improve its engine performance, but it was still the PLA Air Force’s most capable combat aircraft when it came to countering America’s F-22.

“The J-20 is more advanced than China’s fourth-generation fighters because of its stealthiness,” he wrote in the latest edition of the magazine, adding that it could also carry a greater quantity of more advanced air-to-air missiles.

Chang said he did not expect China to put the J-20 into mass production until the WS-15 project was wrapped up, but that training of J-20 pilots had been going on for a while. He said the PLA Air Force had deployed J-20s to the Dingxin Test and Training Base in Gansu province, where they and other warplanes had been used to study counter measures against the F-22 and F-35.

Hong Kong-based military commentator Liang Guoliang said there was a “very urgent” need for China to develop a carrier-based stealth fighter based on the J-20 because of the regional security environment was becoming more challenging.

“The US F-35B is much more powerful than China’s current carrier-based fighter, the J-15,” Liang said. “In case there is a war, the fighting capability of a Japanese Izumo helicopter carrier could come up to that of a Chinese aircraft carrier if each ship is equipped with five to six F-35Bs, with each one the equal of 10 J-15s.”

But, he cautioned, it would take at least a decade to turn a land-based fighter jet like the J-20 into a carrier-based aircraft because of the extensive modifications required, adding that the US had been developing carrier-based aircraft since the 1930s, while China had just started doing so this century.

China’s carrier-based J-15 is based on the Russian Su-33, a variant of the fourth-generation Su-27 fighter.

“China should hurry up; the central leadership should make a decision as soon as possible,” Liang said.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...inas-first-stealth-fighter-was-rushed-service
Why india's first fighter (sorry, not stealth) takes half a century to get into service (not sure), with your daddy's Super Duper engines? false flag bhai?:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
 
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China rushed its first advanced stealth fighter jet into service ahead of schedule last year, using stopgap engines, in the face of rising security challenges in the region, the South China Morning Post has learned.

But that means its capabilities will be severely limited, affecting its manoeuvrability and fuel efficiency as well as its stealthiness at supersonic speeds.

Without saying how many were in operation, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force confirmed on Friday that the J-20, the country’s fifth-generation fighter, had entered combat service, meaning it was combat-ready.

However, the aircraft was equipped with inferior engines designed for earlier warplanes when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed, two independent military sources told the Post.

“The WS-15 engine designed for the J-20 exploded during a ground running test in 2015,” one source said, adding that no one was injured in the accident.

“The explosion indicated the WS-15 is not reliable, and so far there is no fundamental solution to overcome such a problem … that’s why the J-20 is using WS-10B engines now.”

The WS-10B is a modified version of the WS-10 Taihang engine, which was designed for the country’s fourth-generation J-10 and J-11 fighters.

The explosion was confirmed by another source close to the military, who said the reasons it happened were complicated, with one being the quality control of its single-crystal turbine blades, the key component for such a powerful turbofan engine.

The new-generation, single-crystal turbine blades designed for the WS-15 were supposed to be able to cope with the increased mechanical loads caused by significantly higher rotational speeds and extremely high temperatures.

Former Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) chairman Lin Zuoming told state media last year that China’s third-generation single-crystal turbine blades could withstand temperatures of up to 3,632 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 degrees Celsius) in WS-10 engines, extending the engine’s lifespan from 800 hours to 1,500 hours when compared with those using the previous generation of turbine blade.

However, the thrust-to-weight ratio of the original WS-10 engine was only 7.5, while that of the WS-10B tops out at about nine. The thrust-to-weight ratio of the all-direction, vector turbofan WS-15 Emei engine is more than 10 – one of the basic requirements for giving the J-20 “supercruise” ability.

Supercruise allows stealth fighters like the US’ F-22 Raptor to fly at supersonic speeds without using afterburners, making them harder to detect. The F-22 is powered by the world’s most advanced jet engine, the Pratt & Whitney F119.

But achieving supercruise would require the single-crystal turbine blades of the WS-15 engine to cope with temperatures even more extreme than those handled by the WS-10.

“Chinese technicians are able to produce cutting-edge-quality single-crystal turbine blades when concentrating on a specific single item,” the second military source said. “But they’ve still failed to turn the advanced technology into a standard product for mass production. It’s a bottleneck problem that needs more time to overcome after countless experiments and tests, based on Western experiences.”

“Using the WS-10B engines is just a temporary, expedient stage of the J-20’s engine development … in the future, the aircraft may use another new engine, the improved performance engine (IPE) version of the WS-10, the WS-10 IPE, until the development of the WS-15 is successful,” the first source said.

“It’s so embarrassing to change engines for such an important aircraft project several times … just because of the unreliability of the current WS-15 engines. It is the long-standing core problem among home-grown aircraft.”

It is at least the third time the J-20 has changed engines. The aircraft’s maiden flight was powered by two Russian AL-31 engines, which are less capable than China’s WS-10B.

Russia has refused to export its most advanced engines to China because they are the core technology of its aviation industry. That prompted China to develop an indigenous alternative, the WS-15, as part of its drive towards producing one of the world’s most advanced combat aircraft.

Beijing has stepped up the development of sophisticated jet engines since the turn of the century, with at least 150 billion yuan (US$23.7 billion) invested between 2010 and 2015, military insiders told the Post in 2016.

State-owned Aero Engine, a company formed in August 2016 through the merger of 24 AVIC subsidiaries with about 10,000 employees, has led China’s development and production of aircraft engines and gas turbines in recent years. One of the former AVIC subsidiaries, Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute, developed the WS-10 and WS-15.

China Central Television boasted last year that the performance of the WS-15 had matched that of the F119, with a documentary aired in May claiming the WS-15 engines would be widely used in the J-20 by 2020.

That would make China the third country to have a fifth-generation fighter – after the US and Russia. Justin Bronk, a research fellow specialising in combat air power at the Royal United Services Institute, told Business Insider the design of the J-20 gave it “longer range, more internal fuel capacity, and larger internal weapons capability” than its US counterparts, the F-22 and F-35, and that meant it presented a real threat to US forces in the Pacific.

However, military analysts said it was too early for such prognostications because the underdeveloped WS-15 engine was not yet as sophisticated as the F119, which had a lifespan of more than 4,000 hours.

The prototype of Russia’s first fifth-generation fighter jet, the Su-57, took to the air for the first time in January 2010 but its maiden flight powered by the new Izdelie 30 engine, which was specially designed for it, only took place last month. The new engine will enable the Su-57 to achieve supercruise speed and fly consistently at 1,242mph (2,000km/h), but it still faces many tests, with the Russia Beyond website saying it would not be mounted on the Su-57 before 2019 or 2020.

China’s WS-15 project started in the 1990s, with the first prototype delivered in 2004 and the first successful ground-running test staged in 2015, Antony Wong Dong, a Macau-based military observer, said.

“China took 11 years to test the WS-15 after its prototype was created,” Wong said. “It’s very normal to take three to eight years for further development.

“And it’s still a significant achievement for China to develop the WS-10B as a stopgap for the J-20. China’s advanced aircraft engine technology foundation is very weak because its research and development started several decades later than its Western counterparts.”

America’s Pratt & Whitney and General Electric spent more than 12 years developing prototypes of the F119 engine in the 1980s, followed by another 14 years of testing after the engine’s maiden flight, fitted to an F-22, in September 1997.

The US also began developing the F-35, a single-seat, single-engine, all-weather stealth multirole fighter in the 1990s, with the first squadron – using Pratt & Whitney F135 engines, a derivative of the F119, joining its air force in 2016.

The US has started deploying F-35s at its military bases in the Asia-Pacific region, with 12 arriving at the Kadena Air Base in Japan in November. South Korea has said it plans to take delivery of 40 F-35s this year.

Earlier reports said Japan’s Maritime Self-Defence Force was also considering buying the F-35B “jump jet” version for its two new 25,000 tonne, flat-topped Izumo-class helicopter carriers. That pushed Beijing to put the J-20 into service as early as possible, military sources said.

Andrei Chang, editor-in-chief of Canadian-based Kanwa Asian Defence, said the J-20 might need at least eight years to improve its engine performance, but it was still the PLA Air Force’s most capable combat aircraft when it came to countering America’s F-22.

“The J-20 is more advanced than China’s fourth-generation fighters because of its stealthiness,” he wrote in the latest edition of the magazine, adding that it could also carry a greater quantity of more advanced air-to-air missiles.

Chang said he did not expect China to put the J-20 into mass production until the WS-15 project was wrapped up, but that training of J-20 pilots had been going on for a while. He said the PLA Air Force had deployed J-20s to the Dingxin Test and Training Base in Gansu province, where they and other warplanes had been used to study counter measures against the F-22 and F-35.

Hong Kong-based military commentator Liang Guoliang said there was a “very urgent” need for China to develop a carrier-based stealth fighter based on the J-20 because of the regional security environment was becoming more challenging.

“The US F-35B is much more powerful than China’s current carrier-based fighter, the J-15,” Liang said. “In case there is a war, the fighting capability of a Japanese Izumo helicopter carrier could come up to that of a Chinese aircraft carrier if each ship is equipped with five to six F-35Bs, with each one the equal of 10 J-15s.”

But, he cautioned, it would take at least a decade to turn a land-based fighter jet like the J-20 into a carrier-based aircraft because of the extensive modifications required, adding that the US had been developing carrier-based aircraft since the 1930s, while China had just started doing so this century.

China’s carrier-based J-15 is based on the Russian Su-33, a variant of the fourth-generation Su-27 fighter.

“China should hurry up; the central leadership should make a decision as soon as possible,” Liang said.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...inas-first-stealth-fighter-was-rushed-service
It was only as recent as a few months back that no one believed J-20 had Chinese engines. Who cares if it is not comparable to F-22. Hell I am already ecstatic when we can produce a stealth plane using our own engines, after US, we are already the most powerful.
 
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Forget about reports from SCMP's Minnie Chan, she is at best a low rated 2nd rank reporter on military matters. She made so much mistakes that if I am the chief editor, I would transfer her to report on entertainment news instead.

Just look at what she wrote on 6th January 2018 regarding 055 destoyer:-
Shanghai ship workers have started fitting out Asia’s most advanced and biggest destroyer as China assembles a battle fleet for its first home-grown aircraft carrier.

The PLA Daily reported on Friday that workers from Shanghai’s Jiangnan Shipyard Group were installing equipment in the Type 055 destroyer.

The huge vessel, which was launched in June, will become the main battleship (A respectable writer would know that a Battleship is the largest war ship employing huge guns like 22 inch guns, and has gone out of construction after world war two. Using the term Battleship instead of the general term "war ship" is a huge mistake for a military issue writer) for the Type 001A aircraft carrier.

Military sources said the destroyer’s construction was running in parallel with that of the aircraft carrier, which was launched in April and has started sea trials (How we wish this is true, but fact is type 001A is still under fitting). The carrier could go into service by the end of this (another blunder for careless reporting) year, according to state media reports.
 
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