Why Boeing's Dreamliner pitch to Pakistan is a big win for both jetmaker, airline

[kamrananvaar]

A recent pitch by Boeing Commercial Airplanes boss Ray Conner to Pakistan, offering to swap an order for five 777 jets into a Dreamliner purchase instead, could benefit both the airline and help the jet maker avoid an embarrassing production cut, an aerospace analyst suggests.

In a private letter the Puget Sound Business Journal obtained and published earlier this month, Conner urged Pakistan's Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif to convert Pakistan International Airways' existing order for five Boeing 777-300ERs to some new Dreamliners.

Conner told the Pakistan prime minister that switching to Dreamliners would make Pakistanis proud to fly their national airline again, but also would restore profitability to the money-losing airline by reducing fuel and maintenance costs on the jets. This would help PIA prepare for privatization, Conner added.

In a recent analysis that Netherlands based analyst Dhierin Bechai wrote about the Conner letter published here, he suggested Boeing (NYSE: BA) had more than PIA's best interests at heart when it proposed the order swap.

Conner was thinking about Boeing's own Dreamliner production lines, Bechai suggested.

"The letter tells it all," Bechai said.

"To me, the letter is a sign that Boeing is trying to fill delivery slots for the Boeing 787 so that it can increase rates to 14 per month, in the best case, and in the worst case, be able to fill up slots that are freed up now. I think the letter is a sign of Boeing preparing itself for another (production) rate cut, where it is aggressively trying to convert 777 orders to orders for the Dreamliner," Bechai wrote.

"In times where Boeing has been discounting the Boeing 777-300ER to increase its attractiveness and fill the big holes in the production (line), this letter seems to be very odd." Bechai added. "To me it is also clear that Boeing is not really concerned about PIA to the extent it claims in the letter, but is trying to facilitate a swap here that benefits their own plans."

Though Boeing has its own agenda, Bechai said such a deal remains good for Pakistan's national carrier.

The Dreamliner is better suited for PIA's fleet and would really help the airline cut costs, Bechai explained.

The analyst emphasized that PIA's own challenges and difficulties stretch beyond the airline's fleet, though, and plague "management layers of the company."

Conner's letter to Pakistan's prime minister emerged just before Indian airline Jet Airways asked Boeing to postpone delivery of its order for 10 new Dreamliners for two years.

Bechai's report suggests Boeing will announce a 777 production cut within six months.

 

[kamrananvaar]

another way for gunja and co to skim off millions on mega projects

also a bad idea due to troubles with exploding batterries and safety record of the new jet
https://defence.pk/threads/dreamlin...-india-bought-the-troubled-boeing-787.329793/

india might have bought it coz
https://defence.pk/threads/spine-of...r-boeing-787-dreamliner-made-in-india.410617/

bad idea to go for dreamliner

 

[Imran Khan]

both are different plate forms how can we replace a 777er to 787 ?

777ER 13,650 km with 396 passengers
787 14400km with t 234 passengers

 

[Mughal-Prince]

both are different plate forms how can we replace a 777er to 787 ?

777ER 13,650 km with 396 passengers
787 14400km with t 234 passengers

Bhai ab unday khatay khatay thak gaye hain tau pori murghi uranay ka irada hai .. ab aap sumjhay ..

In the time of musharraf we were about to make a contract with AIrbus as we had a huge fleet and facilities for types and instead of it we switched to 777 for apparently just to crease Uncle Sam's balls and as this contract signed and and delivery begins they show us the middle finger and due to this contract France becomes upset.
Now its time for us to make a correction for our mistake.

 

[Furqan Sarwar]

A recent pitch by Boeing Commercial Airplanes boss Ray Conner to Pakistan, offering to swap an order for five 777 jets into a Dreamliner purchase instead, could benefit both the airline and help the jet maker avoid an embarrassing production cut, an aerospace analyst suggests.

In a private letter the Puget Sound Business Journal obtained and published earlier this month, Conner urged Pakistan's Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif to convert Pakistan International Airways' existing order for five Boeing 777-300ERs to some new Dreamliners.

Conner told the Pakistan prime minister that switching to Dreamliners would make Pakistanis proud to fly their national airline again, but also would restore profitability to the money-losing airline by reducing fuel and maintenance costs on the jets. This would help PIA prepare for privatization, Conner added.

In a recent analysis that Netherlands based analyst Dhierin Bechai wrote about the Conner letter published here, he suggested Boeing (NYSE: BA) had more than PIA's best interests at heart when it proposed the order swap.

Conner was thinking about Boeing's own Dreamliner production lines, Bechai suggested.

"The letter tells it all," Bechai said.

"To me, the letter is a sign that Boeing is trying to fill delivery slots for the Boeing 787 so that it can increase rates to 14 per month, in the best case, and in the worst case, be able to fill up slots that are freed up now. I think the letter is a sign of Boeing preparing itself for another (production) rate cut, where it is aggressively trying to convert 777 orders to orders for the Dreamliner," Bechai wrote.

"In times where Boeing has been discounting the Boeing 777-300ER to increase its attractiveness and fill the big holes in the production (line), this letter seems to be very odd." Bechai added. "To me it is also clear that Boeing is not really concerned about PIA to the extent it claims in the letter, but is trying to facilitate a swap here that benefits their own plans."

Though Boeing has its own agenda, Bechai said such a deal remains good for Pakistan's national carrier.

The Dreamliner is better suited for PIA's fleet and would really help the airline cut costs, Bechai explained.

The analyst emphasized that PIA's own challenges and difficulties stretch beyond the airline's fleet, though, and plague "management layers of the company."

Conner's letter to Pakistan's prime minister emerged just before Indian airline Jet Airways asked Boeing to postpone delivery of its order for 10 new Dreamliners for two years.

Bechai's report suggests Boeing will announce a 777 production cut within six months.

Totally agrees with you. 787 has not been at its best. Continuously having issues starting from 2011 till now. Its project is in Loss. The availability rate at any given time is not confirm also.

REASONS FOR NOT INDUCTING 787 Dreamliner into PIA

Here’s a timeline of problems the Dreamliner has experienced over the last five years. I am not mentioning Pre- Launch Problems here as normally those occur in almost all Projects.

POST - LAUNCH PROBLEM's

Feb. 6, 2012: Boeing finds a manufacturing problem in the fuselage section of some Dreamliners.
July 23, 2012: ANA has five aircraft repaired after discovering a problem inside the Rolls-Royce engine.
July 28, 2012: A Dreamliner suffers an engine failure on the ground at the Boeing plant in Charleston. An investigation is announced by U.S. authorities.
Sept. 5, 2012: A hydraulic problem inside an ANA 787 causes the pilot to abort takeoff. White smoke is seen billowing from the aircraft.
Oct. 4 2012: An engine problem onboard an Air Bridge Cargo 747 in Shanghai prompts General Electric (NYSE:GE) to recommend the inspection of GEnx engines, which are used on some 747 and 787 aircraft.
Dec. 5, 2012: A report of fuel leaks prompts the FAA to order the inspection of all 787s.
Jan. 7, 2013: A fire starts on an empty Japan Airlines (TYO:9201) 787 at Boston Logan International.
Jan. 8, 2013: An ANA 787 is grounded after a crack in the windshield is found. Also, a JAL flight is forced to cancel after engineers discover a fuel leak.
Jan. 8, 2013: A Japan Airlines (JAL) 787 experienced a fuel leak, and its flight from Boston was canceled.
Jan. 9, 2013: United Continental Holdings Inc. (NYSE:UAL) discovers faulty wiring near a battery on six of its aircraft.
Jan. 11, 2013: Another Japan Airlines aircraft is found to have a fuel leak.
Jan. 13, 2013: Japan’s Transport Ministry launches an investigation after a third leak is discovered onboard a JAL aircraft.
Jan. 16, 2013: An ANA flight from Tokyo to Ube, makes an emergency landing after a burning smell is detected in the cabin and a warning light comes on. ANA and JAL ground all their 787s, and aviation authorities worldwide order the grounding of all Dreamliners. Boeing halts all deliveries.
June 2, 2013: A sensor pressure detects overheating on one of its 787s.
June 23, 2013: United Airlines makes an emergency landing after a problem is discovered with the braking system.
July 12, 2013: An empty Ethiopian Airlines 787 develops a fire at London's Heathrow airport, which shuts down the entire airport temporarily. The fire was caused by a faulty battery.
July 18, 2013: A maintenance message onboard a JAL flight alerts to a fuel pump error.
July 22, 2013: An electrical panel grounds a Qatar Airways 787.
July 24, 2013: An investigation is launched after an oven overheats aboard an Air India flight.
July 26, 2013: Two ANA-operated Dreamliners are found to have faulty battery wiring, the same problem that caused the fire at Heathrow.
July 27, 2013: United Airlines discovers a problem with an emergency beacon.
Aug. 14, 2013: A fire extinguisher fault affecting three ANA airplanes, which was caused by a supplier assembly error.
Aug. 27, 2013: A problem with slats (extensions of the leading edge of the wing deployed, like the trailing-edge flaps, during takeoff and landing for added lift) forces a JAL 787 to turn back to Tokyo.
Sept. 19, 2013: A United Airlines 787 develops similar flaps problems and is forced to declare an emergency and land in Anchorage, Alaska.
Sept. 28, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul decided to take one of its two 787s out of service after the two aircraft broke down on more than six occasions in September.
Sept. 28, 2013: Technical problems with a transponder prompt a LOT Polish Airlines flight to make an emergency landing in Iceland.
Oct. 9, 2013: Electrical problems caused failed lavatories and the failure of in-flight anti-ice systems on a JAL aircraft, which returned to San Diego.
Nov. 16, 2013: A British Airways flight experiences hydraulic failure.
Dec. 20–22, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul experienced technical problems keeping two of its three 787 aircraft grounded at Fort Lauderdale airport and delayed six flights.
Jan. 14, 2014: Full Japan Airlines Dreamliner fleet grounded after more battery problems.
Jan. 19, 2014: Air India flight loses all transponders.
Jan. 19, 2014: A China Southern 787 receives multiple system messages, including flaps, nose gear landing, nose gear position, doors and brakes.
Jan. 21, 2014: A Norwegian Air Shuttle 787 experienced a fuel leak which caused a 19-hour delay to a flight from Bangkok to Oslo.
Feb. 5, 2014: All management computers fail aboard an Air India flight.
March 5, 2014: Cracks discovered on wings of 787s in production.
Sept 24, 2015: Indian media reported that an Air India 787 (VT-AND) had been grounded since January 2015 and had been scavenged for parts due to their lack of availability. Air India's aircraft engineers' body advised against accepting further deliveries until Boeing resolved reliability issues.
March 4, 2016: Ethiopian Airlines 787-8 registration ET-ASH from Addis Ababa to Rome, had its nose gear collapse. A flight attendant received minor injuries and the aircraft was damaged.
April 22, 2016: FAA issued an airworthiness directive following a Jan. 29 incident in which a General Electric GEnx-1B PIP2 engine suffered damage and non-restartable power loss while flying at an altitude of 20,000 feet.

Conclusion: PIA needs a reliable aircraft which should have a dispatch reliability of atleast 99 % or above like 777. If Boeing can't provide that then look someplace else.

Something to consider for immediate future. Emirates is retiring 50 planes by 2018 starting from 26 in this year. The average industry retirement age is 25 years and that of Emirate fleet after retiring these planes will be 15.7 years. PIA can check these and if some of them have life left in them then buy those fly them for another 5-10 years.

P.S: The letter of Boeing to PM is totally a Joke as the PM of a country don't decides which plane to buy. So, since 787 program is facing Losses and they are desperate to sell more then "Daal main kuch Kala hay". If as per the letter we need to add charm for Privatization then why not buy A350 / A330 / 777X.

 

[Asian.Century]

Boeing offers offering 12 787's Dreamliner for 5 777-300 to PIA.

There has been nearly 40 incidents from 2011 till now where one after another 787's faced problems. This is a big ratio and clearly indicates "DAAL MAIN KUCH KALA HY"

 

[war&peace]

Please does not make offer of 787 to PIA sound like offer of F-35 for PAF...Dreamliner is a good airplane but it is just a commercial airplane and being offered to an airline is nothing but the business as usual. Boeing wants business wherever it comes from....it is neither a win or a favour for PIA or Pakistan...so let's not stoop so low... However if they are giving some serious discount then it could be some sort of win for PIA.
I would recommend PIA to consider Airbus A350s and A320 neo, and A380 for long haul routes.

 

[airmarshal]

both are different plate forms how can we replace a 777er to 787 ?

777ER 13,650 km with 396 passengers
787 14400km with t 234 passengers

787 is a good replacement for 767 and Airbus 300. This is a very good plane for flights from Pakistan to Europe, Middle East and Far East. 777 can be used for longer haul flights from Pakistan like North America, Japan and Australia.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

777ER 13,650 km with 396 passengers
787 14400km with t 234 passengers

The 787 is more streamlined, thinning with composite materials and fuel efficient engines. It's sort of a cross between the future of aviation and the past.

It all comes down to the marginal benefit of that extra passenger vs the cost of maintenance.

The 787 beats out the 777. It's good for the PIA, considering the occupancy rate swings it has constantly.

http://www.aviationfigure.com/is-the-boeing-787-better-than-the-boeing-777-for-low-cost-carriers/

There has been nearly 40 incidents from 2011 till now where one after another 787's faced problems. This is a big ratio and clearly indicates "DAAL MAIN KUCH KALA HY"

Boeing will work it out.

 

[kamrananvaar]

another Boeing 777-300 blunder
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — The pilot in last month's Emirates airliner crash landing in Dubai tried to take off again after a brief touchdown and had already begun raising the landing gear when the plane ultimately hit the ground, according to preliminary findings released on Tuesday.

The accident destroyed the Boeing 777-300 but claimed no lives among the 300 passengers and crew, who scrambled out of the burning plane down just five usable emergency slides. One firefighter was killed in the struggle to contain the blaze.

It was the most serious accident in Emirates' more than three decades of operations, and the second major air disaster for a Dubai government-backed airline in less than five months.

Boeing offers offering 12 787's Dreamliner for 5 777-300 to PIA.

There has been nearly 40 incidents from 2011 till now where one after another 787's faced problems. This is a big ratio and clearly indicates "DAAL MAIN KUCH KALA HY"

daal kaali hai

Boeing will work it out.

we will THINK about it then NOT before
other airlines are cancelling orders

Please does not make offer of 787 to PIA sound like offer of F-35 for PAF...Dreamliner is a good airplane but it is just a commercial airplane and being offered to an airline is nothing more than just the business as usual. Boeing wants business wherever it comes from....it is neither a win or a favour for PIA or Pakistan...so let's not stoop so low... However if they are giving some serious discount then it could be some sort of win for PIA.
I would recommend PIA to consider Airbus A350s and A320 neo, and A380 for long haul routes.

totally agree except the a380 needs airport mods that are costly
also even if heavily dicounted dont get a faulty product , its human lives in the balance

 

[war&peace]

totally agree except the a380 needs airport mods that are costly
also even if heavily dicounted dont get a faulty product , its human lives in the balance

New airports at ISB and Gwader are already being designed with A380 in mind so may be four A-380 would be more than enough for direct flights between for example ISB and NYC, Chicago, London, Beijing and similarly from Gwader. Especially after Gwader port and CPEC become fully operational around 2019-2020, I expect a huge increase in the business travels and also the tourism, thus A-380 will be the most suitable option.

 

[fatman17]

A recent pitch by Boeing Commercial Airplanes boss Ray Conner to Pakistan, offering to swap an order for five 777 jets into a Dreamliner purchase instead, could benefit both the airline and help the jet maker avoid an embarrassing production cut, an aerospace analyst suggests.

In a private letter the Puget Sound Business Journal obtained and published earlier this month, Conner urged Pakistan's Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif to convert Pakistan International Airways' existing order for five Boeing 777-300ERs to some new Dreamliners.

Conner told the Pakistan prime minister that switching to Dreamliners would make Pakistanis proud to fly their national airline again, but also would restore profitability to the money-losing airline by reducing fuel and maintenance costs on the jets. This would help PIA prepare for privatization, Conner added.

In a recent analysis that Netherlands based analyst Dhierin Bechai wrote about the Conner letter published here, he suggested Boeing (NYSE: BA) had more than PIA's best interests at heart when it proposed the order swap.

Conner was thinking about Boeing's own Dreamliner production lines, Bechai suggested.

"The letter tells it all," Bechai said.

"To me, the letter is a sign that Boeing is trying to fill delivery slots for the Boeing 787 so that it can increase rates to 14 per month, in the best case, and in the worst case, be able to fill up slots that are freed up now. I think the letter is a sign of Boeing preparing itself for another (production) rate cut, where it is aggressively trying to convert 777 orders to orders for the Dreamliner," Bechai wrote.

"In times where Boeing has been discounting the Boeing 777-300ER to increase its attractiveness and fill the big holes in the production (line), this letter seems to be very odd." Bechai added. "To me it is also clear that Boeing is not really concerned about PIA to the extent it claims in the letter, but is trying to facilitate a swap here that benefits their own plans."

Though Boeing has its own agenda, Bechai said such a deal remains good for Pakistan's national carrier.

The Dreamliner is better suited for PIA's fleet and would really help the airline cut costs, Bechai explained.

The analyst emphasized that PIA's own challenges and difficulties stretch beyond the airline's fleet, though, and plague "management layers of the company."

Conner's letter to Pakistan's prime minister emerged just before Indian airline Jet Airways asked Boeing to postpone delivery of its order for 10 new Dreamliners for two years.

Bechai's report suggests Boeing will announce a 777 production cut within six months.

as the post suggests, its only a DREAM - liner. who will pay for these aircrafts. we cant purchase 8 F16s with our own money.

 

[airmarshal]

The people who think Boeing is making an offer as favor are very naive. Boeing is a huge business, not big. It works to serve its own interests. As for PIA, we all know its not a business but a charity house funded by Pakistani public and its top positions offered to friends and family of ruling crooks (I deliberately did not use word 'elite' here).

P.S: The letter of Boeing to PM is totally a Joke as the PM of a country don't decides which plane to buy. So, since 787 program is facing Losses and they are desperate to sell more then "Daal main kuch Kala hay". If as per the letter we need to add charm for Privatization then why not buy A350 / A330 / 777X.

Boeing knows where to make an offer. Mr Sharif is a known white collar crook. He will take some commission, invest in offshore property and get a faulty product for Pakistan.

 

[Furqan Sarwar]

@airmarshal Bro I know 787 is fuel efficient however its not completely matured since from its first flight till now it is facing issues. Now Airlines are canceling its orders or putting existing orders on hold.

I think buying this Aircraft will be a gamble with peoples life as well.

 

[airmarshal]

@airmarshal Bro I know 787 is fuel efficient however its not completely matured since from its first flight till now it is facing issues. Now Airlines are canceling its orders or putting existing orders on hold.

I think buying this Aircraft will be a gamble with peoples life as well.

Theres cancellation fee as far as I know, and Boeing is coming forth to make this offer on its initiative. This means Boeing wants to promote 787 against an outstanding order.

Nooni Toons are promoting this as if their dumbo PM is very popular and his policies are bringing foreign interest. Its nothing of that sort. Boeing is an extremely successful business and it knows how to promote and protect its interest. This cant be said about Pakistan and its leadership. Here self interest is more important than country's interest.

Having said all this, most of 787 reliability issues have been resolved.