Why blame Zia for every ill in Pakistan?

[Side-Winder]

We can say that only with the benefit of hindsight. Put yourself in Zia's shoes at the time of the Soviet invasion (or in Musharraf's after 9/11) and the decisions taken may not be all that wrong.

One doesn't exceed the limits Sir.
I don't have problem with us taking on these jihadis after 9/11. it was the time to reap what we did sow.

You think CIA would agree to that and let their own die?

Of course it was also our boundary their war...So even if they didnt give shit we would have been attacked so our people...Had the CIA been soo nice to be physically involved we wouldnt have lost many of our own...Not many can understand what happened in that era except a few who actually we alive to know!

And ofcourse, it's only us who were the fools of the lot.
And no, soviets were never gonna invade pakistan. All concocted myths to collect support for jihad and justify the strategic depth doctrine.

 

[xyxmt]

He was the munafiq e Azam of his time, under the name of Islam he fool the nation like no one else, Jehadis factories to Kalashnikov culture, introduce heroine and bring VCR and list go on, in simple a general (Zia) is responsible in the mess we are in and another General(Raheel sahib) trying hard to pull up us from that filthy mess.

Now we can argue about it and say whatever we want because we werent in his shoes when he saw and emerging thread from our western borders. Now we can dislike and belittle Afghans of their empty threats and poverty and civil war and hate them for their association with RAW and India and problem they are creating in KPK and Baluchistan....but now we can deal with them along with India. Because now we dont imagine the stronger Afghanistan that could have been as a result of Russian support to our western borders just as hostile as it is now possibly even more, along with their association with India on our eastern borders, both having strong relations with possibly more powerful USSR...So, now we curse him because he did this which caused that, not thinking who was responsible for managing the spill overs of the policies that we had to have in order to maintain threats on our eastern borders.

 

[Dubious]

And ofcourse, it's only us who were the fools of the lot.
And no, soviets were never gonna invade pakistan. All concocted myths to collect support for jihad.

Well that we cant tell coz we didnt live through that course of history....

Could we trust we wouldnt be invaded esp with india and USSR on each side of the border?

Were we smart enough not to bow to USA's well planned method of dragging us to war...we wont know if it was a false alert or a real one...

But being a leader you have to make choices and one was already made...Crying over it for 27 yrs instead of migitating the after effects is THE WORST MISTAKE of EVERY PAKISTANI POLITICIAN!

They effectively passed the blame on Zia without making a fall back or even fixing a problem...

Can you tell me which politician addressed the problem of attempted to fix it that we are blaming Zia for his mistakes and not the mistakes of 27yrs worth of politicians?

 

[Psychic]

So what are you telling me? Soviets were not our friends? WoW. Thanks for adding that to my knowledge.

You don't even understand what im saying -- i have repeated 100s of times that there were better ways to counter soviets. there was no need to go this far where you have no way back.

For the exaggerated myths of warm waters. Please go through this, once. Not being a stone head but With an open mind.

The War That Never Was .

O bhai agar aap ka secular, liberal aur moderate musalman Musharraf us time hukamran hota to woh bhi yehi karta jo Zia nay kiya.

Sometimes one has to fight and take difficult decisions instead of thinking about "1000's of other ways" while enemy keeps on strengthening his position. And no sir, there never were 1000's of other ways. There was only one way.

 

[Side-Winder]

Well that we cant tell coz we didnt live through that course of history....

Could we trust we wouldnt be invaded esp with india and USSR on each side of the border?

Were we smart enough not to bow to USA's well planned method of dragging us to war...we wont know if it was a false alert or a real one...

But being a leader you have to make choices and one was already made...Crying over it for 27 yrs instead of migitating the after effects is THE WORST MISTAKE of EVERY PAKISTANI POLITICIAN!

They effectively passed the blame on Zia without making a fall back or even fixing a problem...

Can you tell me which politician addressed the problem of attempted to fix it that we are blaming Zia for his mistakes and not the mistakes of 27yrs worth of politicians?

If you check your notifications, i thanked your opening post. Thats because i believe Zia was not the only one responsible for this mess. But for sure, he played the critical part.

"Were we smart enough not to bow to USA's well planned method of dragging us to war...we wont know if it was a false alert or a real one..."

Actually, Zia was so much obsessed with islamization and the stuff Apart from judging whether it was our war or not.
But again, i never say we should have completely stayed out. But there are limits to everything ma'am.

O bhai agar aap ka secular, liberal aur moderate musalman Musharraf us time hukamran hota to woh bhi yehi karta jo Zia nay kiya.

Sometimes one has to fight and take difficult decisions instead of thinking about "1000's of other ways" while enemy keeps on strengthening his position. And no sir, there never were 1000's of other ways. There was only one way.

Ok.. lol.. Thanks for your comments.
Peace

 

[Musafir117]

Now we can argue about it and say whatever we want because we werent in his shoes when he saw and emerging thread from our western borders. Now we can dislike and belittle Afghans of their empty threats and poverty and civil war and hate them for their association with RAW and India and problem they are creating in KPK and Baluchistan....but now we can deal with them along with India. Because now we dont imagine the stronger Afghanistan that could have been as a result of Russian support to our western borders just as hostile as it is now possibly even more, along with their association with India on our eastern borders, both having strong relations with possibly more powerful USSR...So, now we curse him because he did this which caused that, not thinking who was responsible for managing the spill overs of the policies that we had to have in order to maintain threats on our eastern borders.

I think you mis quote me all in my post I didn't bring his Afghan policy coz that is another different story, I was taking about his hypocritical way of approach to Nafiz Sharia and other hand we was getting what I mention in my post, or you could say it's bad timing that all that start happen in his era? Radical right wing elements get well growth under his tenure, a special type of Islamization which spread like a cancer in our society and mullaiet we are seeing now is part of it.

 

[syedali73]

O bhai agar aap ka secular, liberal aur moderate musalman Musharraf us time hukamran hota to woh bhi yehi karta jo Zia nay kiya.

Sometimes one has to fight and take difficult decisions instead of thinking about "1000's of other ways" while enemy keeps on strengthening his position. And no sir, there never were 1000's of other ways. There was only one way.

Zia was undoubtedly on the right side of the history as it is called. He did what he supposed to do and he did it pretty well except that he let stone age Afghans to roam freely in Pakistan. If he could somehow stop that from happening (like Iran did successfully), there were no problems at all.

 

[Dubious]

If you check your notifications, i thanked your opening post. Thats because i believe Zia was not the only one responsible for this mess. But for sure, he played the critical part.

Critical ...Not really the OP itself says the way was paved for him ...If we put it in todays case he was following the rules as per constitution as most of us on PDF are always claiming so and so is unconstitutional or whatnot in that sense Zia was more constitutional (which has its good and bad ...good meaning he knew how to follow rules bad coz he didnt use his head to change them maybe coz it served the purpose at that time)

Actually, Zia was so much obsessed with islamization and the stuff Apart from judging whether it was our war or not.
But again, i never say we should have completely stayed out. But there are limits to everything ma'am.

Well, if you read the OP the society itself had been molded that way....The bills and changes done back then were done before he came to power he just went with the flow...

 

[Psychic]

Zia was undoubtedly on the right side of the history as it is called. He did what he supposed to do and he did it pretty well except that he let stone age Afghans to roam freely in Pakistan. If he could somehow stop that from happening (like Iran did successfully), there were no problems at all.

In those circumstances, what Zia did was the only choice we had and these same people who are criticizing Zia now would be cheerleading for him(like they cheerlead for every present army chief) had they been present at that time.

 

[xyxmt]

I think you mis quote me all in my post I didn't bring his Afghan policy coz that is another different story, I was taking about his hypocritical way of approach to Nafiz Sharia and other hand we was getting what I mention in my post, or you could say it's bad timing that all that start happen in his era? Radical right wing elements get well growth under his tenure, a special type of Islamization which spread like a cancer in our society and mullaiet we are seeing now is part of it.

It started in Bhutto's time to appease the mullah brigade Zia just continued it, the only Sharia he brought was the public lashing of few criminals which was just to get support from already radicalized public.

Radical right wing elements had to be created to fight the war since Pakistan army could not be involved in this war. His fault is that he died as soon as the war ended not having time to control the jihadis which was the responsibility of the next govt so the blame goes more to the ones who came after him.

 

[Side-Winder]

Critical ...Not really the OP itself says the way was paved for him ...If we put it in todays case he was following the rules as per constitution as most of us on PDF are always claiming so and so is unconstitutional or whatnot in that sense Zia was more constitutional (which has its good and bad ...good meaning he knew how to follow rules bad coz he didnt use his head to change them maybe coz it served the purpose at that time)


Well, if you read the OP the society itself had been molded that way....The bills and changes done back then were done before he came to power he just went with the flow...

He didn't just go with the flow, he took things to the level where he should not have taken to..That's the whole point. I won't go quarelling over this, as jungibaaz, only to make no difference.

 

[Dubious]

He didn't just go with the flow, he took things to the level where he should not have taken to..That's the whole point. I won't go quarelling over this, as jungibaaz, only to make no difference.

Yaar be honest to yourself...He literally died when we were out considered safe he didnt have time to take the blame for half the mess...However his successors seemed to have thought that the mess died with him and kept giving a blind eye to the every worsening conditions!

Equal if not more blame should go on the ignorant lot who didnt take actions when a man dies his successor should take actions but everyone has been busy fighting to get elected instead of fighting to do something to stay elected!

 

[Side-Winder]

Yaar be honest to yourself...He literally died when we were out considered safe he didnt have time to take the blame for half the mess...However his successors seemed to have thought that the mess died with him and kept giving a blind eye to the every worsening conditions!

And lets just apply your logic here, How about saying he paved the paths for the up coming politicans for ALL the wrong you think they did after his death? Could politicians revert back the jihadi mindset of the people of Pakistan? were politicans capable enough to throw back all the afghanis that had already peneterated into our roots? But looks like it doesn't work that way

 

[Musafir117]

It started in Bhutto's time to appease the mullah brigade Zia just continued it, the only Sharia he brought was the public lashing of few criminals which was just to get support from already radicalized public.

Radical right wing elements had to be created to fight the war since Pakistan army could not be involved in this war. His fault is that he died as soon as the war ended not having time to control the jihadis which was the responsibility of the next govt so the blame goes more to the ones who came after him.

Bhutto was another worst happen to Pakistan, After Liaqat sahib Shaheed Pakistan turn into a play ground where all type of institute begun to play their dirty games for nothing but for keeping chair the power as long as they can Zia's promise of election within 90 days then his nam NEHAD referendum I forget the slogan but was like " vote for Islam " ?!? try to find out source time being time to cool something here

 

[Dubious]

How about saying he paved the paths for the up coming politicans for ALL the wrong you think they did after his death?

How did he pave the path? Did he control them from his grave?

Or were they not leader enough material to use their brain to stop something they see going very south?

Could politicians revert back the jihadi mindset of the people of Pakistan?

Isnt the current army trying? Centers to un brainwash them...Tell me which politician in the 27 yrs of Zia's attempted this? And which politician attempted it and failed that we can say they tried but Zia did a too big mistake that it couldnt be reverted?
Most politicians in the 27 yrs were like: They saw a blast said some shit on tv and then went back to hibernation!

were politicans capable enough to throw back all the afghanis that had already peneterated into our roots? But looks like it doesn't work that way

Were they incapable to say go home? Or were they greedy to keep them for money like NS recently invited the Rohigya Muslims for refugee status coz they come with money from UN?