Why are the Muslim Dynasties considered foreign?

[Mamluk]

Besides Hinduism is not really native to subcontinent. If anything is native, it's the original religion of the Dalits and Dravidians which has been driven to extinction by Aryans.

 

[jetray]

Besides Hinduism is not really native to subcontinent.

stop acting as if you know about hinduism, its not something that is defined by some political party or one section of it who claim to own it. Neither it is a bunch of rules expounded by a text book/s.

Can you please tell me what is the religion of dalits or dravidians in that case?

 

[Mamluk]

stop acting as if you know about hinduism, its not something that is defined by some political party or one section of it who claim to own it. Neither it is a bunch of rules expounded by a text book/s.

Can you please tell me what is the religion of dalits or dravidians in that case?

Already said, Aryans erased it. Are you denying Vedic religion originated in Central Asia/Pak-Afghan and was forcefully imposed on subcontinent's aboriginals? Why do you think the Dalits are Dalits - you think by choice?

 

[Jackdaws]

Muslim invaders are considered foreign because they err - invaded the lands. Those who settled and established empires like the Mughals are considered naturalized Indian rulers like the Mughals. But why Pakistan would want to appropriate an Empire along the banks of the Ganga and Yamuna is a mystery.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I don't understand

The question you pose is too wide and no one answer can cover such a diverse range, huge geographic span over a extented timespan. It's like asking one question for all of Europe with it's myriad peoples and myriad histories and expecting one answer. Instead you need to specficy region/invader/ruler to get a answer that has any meaning.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

For us Pakistanis, many of them were foreigners because they were based off around Delhi.

Modern-day region of Pakistan has had countless successful native Muslim dynasties, why not focus on them?

Soomra, Raees, Samma, Khatoor, Talpur, Kalhora dynasties to name a few.

 

[U-571]

Broadly speaking Islam as a religion is not native to subcontinent as such its followers are considered as outsiders. A white man in america is still considered as european descendant not as a native.

From the perspective of society, subcontinent is a patriarchal society where males dominate. Tribalism or clan culture expects ppl to marry within the clan and any one who marries outside is considered outsiders. Given that muslims as invaders are outsiders this is generally extended to all those native ppl who got converted.

in india the natives are dravidians only

 

[jetray]

Already said, Aryans erased it. Are you denying Vedic religion originated in Central Asia/Pak-Afghan and was forcefully imposed on subcontinent's aboriginals? Why do you think the Dalits are Dalits - you think by choice?

I asked you a simple question, what is the religion of dravidians/dalits? dont divert the question.

Muslim invaders are considered foreign because they err - invaded the lands. Those who settled and established empires like the Mughals are considered naturalized Indian rulers like the Mughals. But why Pakistan would want to appropriate an Empire along the banks of the Ganga and Yamuna is a mystery.

Native is something which has origins in that place, even though mughals became naturalized they still considered foreign. A white guy settled in US is still considered outsider by a native Indian american. A language like urdu which originated in subcontinent is local but arabic/persian is not. Some of the ppl assimilated and others tried to destroy the local populace and culture. Overwhelmingly it is the latter part that stands out.

When pakistanis can claim bakshali script which is written in sanskrit as theirs they can claim any thing.

 

[Hamza913]

Muslim invaders are considered foreign because they err - invaded the lands. Those who settled and established empires like the Mughals are considered naturalized Indian rulers like the Mughals. But why Pakistan would want to appropriate an Empire along the banks of the Ganga and Yamuna is a mystery.

They all settled and established empires, none of them came to plunder and leave other than Nader Shah and Tamerlane, and nobody is really a huge fan of them.

The Mughals weren't just based in Hindustan. One of their major cities, Lahore, is in Pakistan. They've created many towns, districts and created magnificent structures all over Pakistan too. Shah Jahan himself, one of the most powerful Mughal Kings, was born in modern day Pakistan (Lahore to be precise).

 

[Mamluk]

I asked you a simple question, what is the religion of dravidians/dalits? dont divert the question.

Did I not say it has been erased? What is the religion of pre-Buddhism Burmese? Or pre-Christian Ethiopians? You cannot study something that has been erased.

Now answer my question: did Dalits become Dalits by choice?

 

[Hamza913]

For us Pakistanis, many of them were foreigners because they were based off around Delhi.

Modern-day region of Pakistan has had countless successful native Muslim dynasties, why not focus on them?

Soomra, Raees, Samma, Khatoor, Talpur, Kalhora dynasties to name a few.

Asalamu Alaikum

I do find it odd nobody focuses on the purely Pakistan-based Muslim dynasties (my personal favourite being the Shah Mir dynasty).

However, the overwhelming majority of the Muslim dynasties were just as involved in Pakistan as they were in Hindustan, as explained in my original post. Lahore was a cultural hub that attracted migrants from all over during the Ghaznavids, Ghurids, Delhi Sultanate and the Mughals.

The question you pose is too wide and no one answer can cover such a diverse range, huge geographic span over a extented timespan. It's like asking one question for all of Europe with it's myriad peoples and myriad histories and expecting one answer. Instead you need to specficy region/invader/ruler to get a answer that has any meaning.

Hmmm, I guess I'll start with the Mughals, specifically under the reign of Shah Jahan.

Broadly speaking Islam as a religion is not native to subcontinent as such its followers are considered as outsiders. A white man in america is still considered as european descendant not as a native.

From the perspective of society, subcontinent is a patriarchal society where males dominate. Tribalism or clan culture expects ppl to marry within the clan and any one who marries outside is considered outsiders. Given that muslims as invaders are outsiders this is generally extended to all those native ppl who got converted.

But what about Hinduism then? It was founded by Aryan invaders who came and subjugated the region, and imposed their religion upon the people here. Yes of course many people are descended from them, but if I as a Muslim say this for some reason the argument is invalid, but when a Hindu says it, it's considered perfectly fine. It's a strange double standard.

 

[Fledgingwings]

Broadly speaking Islam as a religion is not native to subcontinent as such its followers are considered as outsiders. A white man in america is still considered as european descendant not as a native.

From the perspective of society, subcontinent is a patriarchal society where males dominate. Tribalism or clan culture expects ppl to marry within the clan and any one who marries outside is considered outsiders. Given that muslims as invaders are outsiders this is generally extended to all those native ppl who got converted.

Nothing in this world remains unchanged.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

For us Pakistanis, many of them were foreigners because they were based off around Delhi.

Bingo. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. What exactly is foreign? Once upon a time we were part of Achaemenid Persia and another time part of the Greek Empire. We have to describe them as foreign from context of Pakistan since this is name of a country that covers certain geography with borders. Without those Pakistan becomes meaningless.

Therefore we can only focus on those rulers with roots within the region coterminous to Pakistan. All rest are foreign. If people insist on Delhi rulers being included then I could equally argue for Kabul rulers to be included. If Tipu from South of India can be included why can't I include rulers from Mazar-e- Sharif? Or even Tashkent? They were as Muslim if not more then South Indian rulers.

To stop this drift in sea of uncertainty and keep definition of Pakistan sharp thus developing a clear untrammeled identity we must, we must focus on the region that is coterminous to Pakistan. After all 95% of us are native of this land. Time to own our own soil.

 

[BHarwana]

If Tipu from South of India can be included

Are you talking about Tipu sultan over here?

 

[Hamza913]

Bingo. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. What exactly is foreign? Once upon a time we were part of Achaemenid Persia and another time part of the Greek Empire. We have to describe them as foreign from context of Pakistan since this is name of a country that covers certain geography with borders. Without those Pakistan becomes meaningless.

Therefore we can only focus on those rulers with roots within the region coterminous to Pakistan. All rest are foreign. If people insist on Delhi rulers being included then I could equally argue for Kabul rulers to be included. If Tipu from South of India can be included why can't I include rulers from Mazar-e- Sharif? Or even Tashkent? They were as Muslim if not more then South Indian rulers.

To stop this drift in sea of uncertainty and keep definition of Pakistan sharp thus developing a clear untrammeled identity we must, we must focus on the region that is coterminous to Pakistan. After all 95% of us are native of this land. Time to own our own soil.

If you wish to do so, all well and good. You may cut out the rulers who are not from coterminous Pakistan (although I'd dispute that for several reasons which I've touched upon earlier). But what about the ones I mentioned that were from coterminous Pakistan, such as Shah Jahan, Ghazi Malik, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Sikander Butshikan, etc? I'd assume you would appreciate them as Pakistani heroes, right?

Are you talking about Tipu sultan over here?

Asalamu Alaikum

Yes, there's no other Tipu from South Hindustan who's quite as famous.