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Who should be blamed?

Christians are more advanced because their children don't believe in that any more. Rather they believe in laboratory data... and then they make stuff from it... cause in a war time their shall be no angels on them... so they make sure they are well covered...

Has Islam stopped anyone from gathering laboratory data? I am a firm believer that if The Book as you says that it contains all the knowledge, then it is correct. It is us who have not been able to interpret it beyond beard and trouser lengths. Just like it says that remain united and we have made sure that we remain divided all the time. If someone does not understand a scripture does not mean that the scripture is wrong. Its that individual who is wrong. Just compare the formation of a child in mother's womb with what modern science has found. Its just that until science discovered the process, people could not understood what is written in the Holy Book. It is not fault of the book it is of readers.
 
Has Islam stopped anyone from gathering laboratory data? I am a firm believer that if The Book as you says that it contains all the knowledge, then it is correct. It is us who have not been able to interpret it beyond beard and trouser lengths. Just like it says that remain united and we have made sure that we remain divided all the time. If someone does not understand a scripture does not mean that the scripture is wrong. Its that individual who is wrong. Just compare the formation of a child in mother's womb with what modern science has found. Its just that until science discovered the process, people could not understood what is written in the Holy Book. It is not fault of the book it is of readers.

How can one prove the interpretation of the other is wrong or right? how much is actually there to interpret? are you sure that while interpreting the book it won't create other sects in the society... these are few of the questions one can ask...

Maybe not the Quran sir, but if anything is even allegedly against it you have the brigade of mullahs with all their pseudo talk to counter that, so yes religion in fact does inhibit the scientific learning capacity of it's carriers...

Formation of a child? Sir the last time i was arguing about it the person went on with how the prophet had predicted a sound box and how it turned out to be a television... and of course it was the religion in him speaking because he is a really wise person and suddenly hearing something so stupid from this person was discouraging in the least... so i hope what you have in store is a tad bit better...

The problem with religion vs science is that religion gives too little to explore... an ideology cannot cater to the needs of a curious mind...

Kehna kya chahtay ho bahi? Zara asan aur sada alfaz may biyan karo?
Separate religion and science, stop thinking that earthquakes occur because you touched yourself... find solutions and be pragmatic... peace...
 
Maybe not the Quran sir, but if anything is even allegedly against it you have the brigade of mullahs with all their pseudo talk to counter that, so yes religion in fact does inhibit the scientific learning capacity of it's carriers...

You prove my point its the mullahs who have kept truth hidden from us. Remember there is nothing like clergy in Islam it is incumbent on every individual to learn and use own wisdom.

How can one prove the interpretation of the other is wrong or right? how much is actually there to interpret? are you sure that while interpreting the book it won't create other sects in the society... these are few of the questions one can ask...
I would support your comment if you have read, deliberated and researched on the book. If you have done that and have not been able to find answers to your science queries only then this comment is valid.

Formation of a child? Sir the last time i was arguing about it the person went on with how the prophet had predicted a sound box and how it turned out to be a television... and of course it was the religion in him speaking because he is a really wise person and suddenly hearing something so stupid from this person was discouraging in the least... so i hope what you have in store is a tad bit better...
Concept of Soor? Can we link it to modern day technology? Think?

The problem with religion vs science is that religion gives too little to explore... an ideology cannot cater to the needs of a curious mind...

There is no contradiction between science and religion. Creation of universe is based on science. Do you believe in Aliens? Western world is looking for life outer space. The movies like Star Wars etc are not mere fiction, it does have some research behind it. God has already said that we have created may worlds like yours or words to that effect. Holy Quran talks about Jin, western world is doing research on paranormal. So it is our lack of vision and illiteracy, which cannot be put on religion.
 
You prove my point its the mullahs who have kept truth hidden from us. Remember there is nothing like clergy in Islam it is incumbent on every individual to learn and use own wisdom.

But then it is Mullahs who are brought up on teachings of islam rather than the regular folk... so if somebody who has studied more islam involves himself "in hiding the truth" then i believe the said ideology has some major draw backs and flaws... Now that is unless you believe all of them are somehow are connected by neural network and what not...
My point is that we are eager to blame the Mullahs and rightly so but we fail to look beneath and those are the teachings that they've been brought upon... of course a said perfect thing/ideology wouldn't be like that now would it?

I would support your comment if you have read, deliberated and researched on the book. If you have done that and have not been able to find answers to your science queries only then this comment is valid.

Yes i've read the book, all of it...? no... will i? no...
I can gain more by reading a chapter of my other books rather than finding a needle in the haystack and being pounced upon many for being blasphemous... now i will and shall never deny that the book is a source of great wisdom and knowledge but if anyone claims that it can lay the foundations of modern science, i'd say no...

Concept of Soor? Can we link it to modern day technology? Think?

Excellent sir, just what i thought, all i have to do is to link something in the book with something i observe... i honestly am for the half of time i am awake procrastinating about owning a business that churns a billion in a month... can i dedicate a few more of my minutes to this activity...? absolutely yes!

There is no contradiction between science and religion. Creation of universe is based on science. Do you believe in Aliens? Western world is looking for life outer space. The movies like Star Wars etc are not mere fiction, it does have some research behind it. God has already said that we have created may worlds like yours or words to that effect. Holy Quran talks about Jin, western world is doing research on paranormal. So it is our lack of vision and illiteracy, which cannot be put on religion.

We cannot let religion dictate the minds of our youth! absolutely not!
I say that not as a human but a Pakistani...
The reason behind that is the world is already ahead as it is... we are already far far behind... we need to catch up and for that we need to embrace science in it's actual and logical form and not one dictated by religion... there is nothing factual in that... you will be going around in circles...
 
For example philanthropy sorry but many Muslims countries when it comes to GDP ration most charity giving

Amazing lol. You are ahead in ''charity''. Give yourself a cookie. Did you even read the OP?
 
o The Muslim World lacks the capacity to produce knowledge.
o Muslim World is failing to diffuse knowledge
o Muslim World is failing to apply knowledge.
The Tragic Failure of the Arab World, and Why It's Bad for Israel
Following the collapse of ‘Arab socialism’ and demise of the ‘Arab Spring,’ is there any hope that the cradle of civilization will become a superpower once more?

Shimon Shamir Jan 02, 2016 5:23 AM
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An Arab Spring protest in Jordan. AP

  • Believe it or not, Donald Trump is right about the Middle East
  • Our desire for peace mustn’t blind us to the Arab turmoil
  • If Tunisia could do it, so can Israel and Palestine

The 21st century is becoming increasingly characterized by the tragedies befalling the Arab world. Tribal, ethnic, regional, religious and other forces are fighting each other for power, while Arab states seem to be coming apart at the seams or even completely crumbling. The historic rift between Sunni and Shi’ite Islam remains as divisive as ever, and jihadists are gaining footholds throughout Arab lands. They give rise to questions about their implications for Arab states in the modern age.

Ever since the Western world first burst into the Arab-Islamist sphere, more than 200 years ago, Arabs have been tormented by the question of why they – the bearers of such a magnificent cultural heritage – now find themselves at such a disadvantage. They have struggled to understand how they could possibly compete with more developed nations.

To hope to achieve this goal, they needed to address four challenges: First, to create sovereign states with functioning national institutions that depend upon cooperative citizens. Second, to develop the capacity to produce technology, which would secure them a competitive position in the world economy. Third, to handle Islam in a way that would instill values to bring society together – like common identity and solidarity – but also neutralize the violent elements that look to restore the ways of the past. Fourth, to shake off the neocolonialist influence and involvement of superpowers, and act independently in the international arena.

These tasks became relevant when the Arab states gained independence, about midway through the 20th century – or, at least, it seemed that they had started to confront these challenges then. In some of the Arab states, revolutionary Nasserist-Ba’athist regimes came to power, and they assumed these burdens. They founded national institutions and created educational systems to indoctrinate the people and enhance the individual’s affinity to the state. They nationalized production, built industrial plants and sent the people to universities, in the hope of advancing their country’s scientific and technological capabilities. They called it “Arab socialism.”

Islam was cultivated as a symbol, but the regimes themselves were secular and kept the Islamic movement subdued. They dismantled the foreign military bases and scrapped foreign military strategies like 1955’s Baghdad Pact, which established METO – a treaty organization (modeled after NATO) that included Britain and Middle Eastern states, but which was dissolved in 1979. The newly independent Arab states sought to establish themselves collectively as a world power and aligned with the African-Asian bloc; they labeled it a kind of “positive neutrality.”

Knowledge deficit

The Arab reality today is very different. The leaders’ glaring mistake was they believed that in this region, “the societies might be weak, but the states are strong.” It transpired that the systems of intimidation and enforcement did not reflect strength, but instead weakness. When the upheavals began, and the non-state factions became more powerful and began preaching a new reality, some of the states collapsed, while others are struggling to maintain their stability.

From today’s perspective, it isn’t hard to explain the phenomenon. It seems that the Arab states, to varying degrees, were hollow entities; their conceptual frameworks were weak. They were created during the modern age and had no names – because such entities did not exist prior to their establishment. The classical Arabic lexicon did not include a word for “state” or “nation.” In its place, the word meaning “dynasty,” or ruling family, was adapted for the purpose. The concept of a nation became synonymous with the idea of a dynasty that rises and falls. Thus, large swaths of the population backed the idea that when the regime falls, the state is no more.

In the West, the thinking tends to be that the toppling of an authoritarian regime might lead to the establishment of a democracy. However, bitter experience has shown that overthrowing the rulers prompts the whole system to collapse, and then the alternative is chaos. This is also the root cause of the failure of the youth that led the Arab Spring. It turned out that while it’s possible to topple a dictator, the proper foundations for fostering democracy in the aftermath – both conceptually and institutionally – were lacking.

There is no escaping the conclusion that, at this stage, most Arab states can only function with some level of stability under authoritarian regimes or traditional monarchies. The challenge of creating nations similar to those in the modern West has yet to be fulfilled.

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Lebanese protesters in February 2011. The Arab Spring couldn't fix the Middle East's problems. Reuters

Similar failures have occurred on the economic front, too. True, there was economic development in some Arab nations that led to prosperity and in some cases even great wealth (Qatar, for example, is the richest country in the world in terms of GDP per capita, while Kuwait is ranked fourth). Arab states need foreign currency to import essential food items, but they don’t receive enough from the selling of natural resources, tourism, people working overseas and, for Egypt, from the Suez Canal.

Arab products are barely represented in the global marketplace. Compare Egypt and South Korea, where the economic conditions were similar when both nations achieved independence. South Korea currently exports everything from high-tech electronics to cars and boats: as a result, its economy is five times the size of Egypt’s.

The dizzying growth of the global economy is based primarily on knowledge, and countries that cannot match the rate of development get left behind. In most Arab countries, the level of scientific and technological know-how does not meet the levels required to support advanced, innovative means of production. A United Nations report in 2002, “Arab Human Development,” called this the “knowledge deficit,” and determined that this was one of three factors hindering development in the Arab nations. Knowledge in the Arab world is not up to par because their schools and universities place too great an emphasis on memorization and rote learning.

The knowledge deficit stems from the fact that openness to the world is low among Arab states. For example, the number of translated books in the Arab world is exceedingly low: A 2003 UN report, “Building a Knowledge Society,” found that, on average, only 4.4 translated books were published per million people between 1981 and 1985 in the Arab states, while the corresponding rate in Hungary was 519 books, and in Spain 920.

Even when Arab states open up to the world and import technologies, the benefits are limited. Global technologies become obsolete very quickly, so those not participating in their production can’t develop effective alternatives. Creativity and ingenuity are so critical these days, but these qualities are lacking in the Arab world. And despite their extremely modern image, even the Gulf states import technology from around the world and the locals have no stake in production.

According to the same 2003 UN report, all of the Arab states combined registered only 370 patents in the United States between 1980 and 2000, while Israel alone registered more than 7,000 and South Korea registered over 16,000. The number of researchers per million people in the Arab world sits at 300, while the global average is 900. The result of all of this is that unemployment rates among young people in the Arab world are among the highest on the planet – between 30 to 50 percent.

Failure to tackle radical Islam

Even the clampdown on Islam in Arab countries did not work so well. Islamist factions weren’t eliminated, despite numerous efforts to that end. Gamal Abdel Nasser sent thousands of Muslim Brotherhood members to jail, as did other nations. Yet comparing the demographics of Islamists at the end of the 20th century and today shows a staggering rate of growth: In 2000, Islamist groups were small, underground factions with limited capabilities; by 2015, they had become large forces with military capabilities and cutting-edge weaponry, and were firmly established throughout Arab lands. They challenge not only local governments, but also the foreign regimes that support those governments. The last 15 years have seen a series of mega-terrorist attacks throughout the world – from the September 11 attacks in the United States to the recent massacre in Paris. During the last five years alone, there has been a stark increase in the number of casualties from Islamic terrorism in various nations – in some cases up more than tenfold in comparison to previous years.

It’s possible that the failure to deal with radical Islam also stems from the fact that attempts to do so were always brutal. Not enough attention was paid to the fact that Islamism (also known as Political Islam) is not only terrorism, but that it represents first and foremost an idea – an idea that is very attractive to many Muslims, especially during times of regional conflict and strife. Many nations failed because they did not see the need to pose an alternative idea, despite the fact that such an idea existed.

During the first half of the 20th century, liberal, humanist and rational streams appeared within Islam – streams that separated religion and state, and found their own intellectual expression. Unfortunately, most Arab state regimes rejected these ideas, choosing instead to embrace a combination that had the worst of all options. The Arab nations could not find a courageous leader capable of sparking the necessary transformation for repelling brutal Islamism and creating a new order that marched with the times.


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An undated photo of Islamic State militants. Arab regimes failed to understand the idea behind Islamism.AP

Also, the aspirations of the first generations to achieve independence went unrealized, and they were unable to prevent a situation in which the end of colonialism would create a vacuum and space for foreign influence. The first sign of this failure was already evident in the days of Nasser: He became the hero of the Arab world when he expelled 10,000 British soldiers from their bases in Egypt, but then quickly brought in 20,000 Soviet “military advisers” (who Anwar Sadat later expelled, in 1972).

The clear turning point was the Gulf War in 1991, when Arab armies fought as part of a coalition commanded and led mostly by Americans, against an Arab leader who was the “Arab bulwark” against Iran. And that’s how it continued: NATO forces were employed against Muammar Gadhafi in Libya; the Iranians are making excursions into Iraq and Syria, as are the Turks; the Russians are intervening in the Syrian civil war on President Bashar Assad’s side; France is asking fellow European Union states to aid in the fight against the Islamic State; and the United States, which had seemingly retreated from the arena, is being pulled back into the fray in both Iraq and Syria.

In Arab states, the regional wars are fierce and the number of casualties over recent decades has reached the millions. Huge waves of refugees are abandoning their countries, fleeing from death and destruction. The refugees mostly express utter despair for life in their homeland.

In a bleak leader article regarding the state of the Arab world published in The Economist (“The Tragedy of the Arabs,” July 5, 2014) , the writer laments the fact that a “civilization that used to lead the world is in ruins,” and declared that the Arab peoples are “in a wretched state.” The remarks call to mind Egyptian writer Naguib Mahfouz, who was one of the first in Egypt to express support for reconciliation with Israel. He said that peace was justified because of the “need to rebuild civilization.”

Mahfouz knew what he was talking about. There’s no doubt that developments in the region affect Israel. It is a mistake to rejoice in the misfortunes of our neighbors, and praise ourselves for being “the villa in the jungle,” as former Prime Minister Ehud Barak once said. Our borders are not immune to the threats of violence raging around us, and we can get involved in our neighbors’ well-being.

The author is a professor emeritus of Middle Eastern History and former Israeli ambassador to both Egypt and Jordan.


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Shimon Shamir
Haaretz Contributor
read more: The Tragic Failure of the Arab World, and Why It's Bad for Israel - Middle East News - Haaretz
 
Separate religion and science, stop thinking that earthquakes occur because you touched yourself... find solutions and be pragmatic... peace...

You are taking it too seriously and focusing on one aspect that is mostly based on hearsay only, if earthquakes would have happened because you touched yourself this world would have been destroyed million times so no earthquakes don't happen just for that reason, I agree with you but at the same time if earthquake happens we won't be able to stop the Earth from shaking. And I believe in the ONE who can stop it.

You want to excel in Science only your choice, my best wishes for that but I would appreciate that if someone wishes to study science in light of Quran let him (I am talking of Quran only), I am sure someone who has read Quran as it should be and has tried understanding it in a manner it requires someone to understand it he will be able to conclude easily.
 
You are taking it too seriously and focusing on one aspect that is mostly based on hearsay only, if earthquakes would have happened because you touched yourself this world would have been destroyed million times so no earthquakes don't happen just for that reason, I agree with you but at the same time if earthquake happens we won't be able to stop the Earth from shaking. And I believe in the ONE who can stop it.

You want to excel in Science only your choice, my best wishes for that but I would appreciate that if someone wishes to study science in light of Quran let him (I am talking of Quran only), I am sure someone who has read Quran as it should be and has tried understanding it in a manner it requires someone to understand it he will be able to conclude easily.

It is NOT based on heresay... rather it is on religious bases that we hear such assumption and basically people take religion as a pillow on which they can fall back on... the concept of carrot and stick is well ingrained in religion we both know that...

And have you never touched yourself? is that sarcasm applicable to me only...? even at this very moment many would be doing that... even the ones who pose or actually religious to a great degree do that... anyways...

Can it be an aspiration... of course... our nobel prize winner took his theory's idea from the book too... but is it a sound basis on which we can rely on for our scientific needs? absolutely NOT!
I just wish that our future generations have a sound mental capacity that thinks logic and pragmatism... current one does not have it and we both know it doesn't...
 
Forwarding a post as received...


Demographics:
o World Jewish Population. 14 million
o Distribution: 7 m in America
5 m in Asia
2 m in Europe
100 thousand in Africa
o World Muslim Population: 1.5 billion
o Distribution: 1 billion in Asia/Mid-East
400 M in Africa
44 M in Europe
6 M in the Americas
o Every fifth human being is a Muslim.
o For every single Hindu there are two Muslims
o For every Buddhist there are two Muslims
o For every Jew there are 107 Muslims
o Yet the 14 million Jews are more powerful than the entire 1.5 billion Muslims
Why?

Here are some of the reasons.

Movers of Current History
o Albert Einstein Jewish
o Sigmund Freud Jewish
o Karl Marx Jewish
o Paul Samuelson Jewish
o Milton Friedman Jewish

Medical Milestones
o Vaccinating Needle: Benjamin Ruben Jewish
o Polio Vaccine Jonas Salk Jewish
o Leukaemia Drug Gertrude Elion Jewish
o Hepatitis B Baruch Blumberg Jewish
o Syphilis Drug Paul Ehrlich Jewish
o Neuro muscular Elie Metchnikoff Jewish
o Endocrinology Andrew Schally Jewish
o Cognitive therapy. Aaron Beck Jewish
o Contraceptive Pill Gregory Pincus Jewish
o Understanding of Human Eye. G. Wald Jewish
o Embryology. Stanley Cohen Jewish
o Kidney Dialysis Willem Kloffcame Jewish

Nobel Prize Winners
o In the past 105 years, 14 million Jews have won 180 Nobel prizes whilst 1.5 billion Muslims have contributed only 3 Nobel winners

Inventions that changed History
o Micro- Processing Chip. Stanley Mezor Jewish
o Nuclear Chain Reactor Leo Sziland Jewish
o Optical Fibre Cable Peter Schultz Jewish
o Traffic Lights Charles Adler Jewish
o Stainless Steel Benno Strauss Jewish
o Sound Movies Isador Kisee Jewish
o Telephone Microphone Emile Berliner Jewish
o Video Tape Recorder Charles Ginsburg Jewish

Influential Global Business
o Polo Ralph Lauren Jewish
o Coca Cola Jewish
o Levi's Jeans Levi Strauss Jewish
o Sawbuck's Howard Schultz Jewish
o Google Sergey Brin Jewish
o Dell Computers Michael Dell Jewish
o Oracle Larry Ellison Jewish
o DKNY Donna Karan Jewish
o Baskin & Robbins Irv Robbins Jewish
o Dunkin Donuts Bill Rosenberg Jewish

Influential Intellectuals/Politicians
o Henry Kissinger , US Sec of State Jewish
o Richard Levin, PresidentYaleUniversity Jewish
o Alan Greenspan , US Federal Reserve Jewish
o Joseph Lieberman Jewish
o Madeleine Albright , US Sec of State Jewish
o CasperWeinberger , US Sec of Defence Jewish
o Maxim Litvinov , USSR Foreign Minister Jewish
o DavidMarshal , Singapore Chief Minister Jewish
o Isaacs Isaacs, Gov-GenAustralia Jewish
o Benjamin Disraeli, British Statesman Jewish
o Yevgeny Primakov, Russian PM Jewish
o Barry Goldwater , US Politician Jewish
o Jorge Sampaio, President Portugal Jewish
o Herb Gray, Canadian Deputy - PM Jewish
o Pierre Mendes, French PM Jewish
o Michael Howard, British Home Sec. Jewish
o Bruno Kriesky, Austrian Chancellor Jewish
o Robert Rubin , US Sec of Treasury Jewish

Global Media Influential
o Wolf Blitzer, CNN Jewish
o Barbara Walters ABC News Jewish
o EugeneMeyer , Washington Post Jewish
o Henry Grunwald, Time Magazine Jewish
o Katherine Graham , Washington Post Jewish
o Joseph Lelyeld, New York Times Jewish
o Max Frankel, New York Times Jewish

Global Philanthropists
o George Soros Jewish
o Walter Annenberg Jewish


Why are they powerful? why are Muslims powerless?
Here's another reason. We have lost the capacity to produce knowledge.

o In the entire Muslim World (57 Muslim Countries) there are only 500 universities.
o In USA alone, 5,758 universities
o In India alone, 8,407 universities
o Not one university in the entire Islamic World features in the Top 500 Ranking Universities of the World
o Literacy in the Christian World 90%
o Literacy in the Muslim World 40%
o 15 Christian majority-countries, literacy rate 100%
o Muslim majority - countries , None
o 98% in Christian countries completed primary
o Only 50% in Muslim countries completed primary.
o 40% in Christian countries attended university
o In Muslim countries a dismal 2% attended.
o Muslim majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims
o The USA has 5000 per million
o The Christian world 1000 technicians per million.
o Entire Arab World only 50 technicians per million.
o Muslim World spends on research/development 0.2% of GDP
o Christian World spends 5 % of GDP

Conclusion.
o The Muslim World lacks the capacity to produce knowledge.

Another way of testing the degree of knowledge is the degree of diffusing knowledge.

o Pakistan 23 daily newspapers per 1000 citizens
o Singapore 460 per 1000 citizens.
o In UK book titles per million is 2000
o In Egypt book titles per million is only 17

Conclusion.
o Muslim World is failing to diffuse knowledge

Applying Knowledge is another such test.
o Exports of high tech products from Pakistan is 0.9% of its exports.
o In Saudi Arabia is 0.2%
o Kuwait , Morocco and Algeria 0.3%
o Singapore alone is 68%

Conclusion.
o Muslim World is failing to apply knowledge.
What do you conclude? no need to tell the figures are speaking themselves very loudly we are unable to listen
Advice:
Please educate yourself and your children. always promote education, don't compromise on it, don't ignore your children's slightest misguidance from education (and please, for ALLAH'S Sake, don't use your personal contacts or sources to promote your children in their education; if they fail, let them and make them learn to pass; b/c if they can't do it now, they can't ever).
We are World's biggest and strongest nation, all we need is to identify and explore our ownselves. Our victory is with our knowledge.
@WebMaster @Slav Defence @Zarvan @Spring Onion

Problem is not education. Neither it is "failing to apply knowledge".

It is something else.

But your post is much appreciated.
 
But then it is Mullahs who are brought up on teachings of islam rather than the regular folk... so if somebody who has studied more islam involves himself "in hiding the truth" then i believe the said ideology has some major draw backs and flaws... Now that is unless you believe all of them are somehow are connected by neural network and what not...
My point is that we are eager to blame the Mullahs and rightly so but we fail to look beneath and those are the teachings that they've been brought upon... of course a said perfect thing/ideology wouldn't be like that now would it?
My dear there is not point in highlighting Mullahs to me as I have already negated the idea of Mullahism in Islam. Who are we calling scholars in Islam most of them are the black sheep of the family. Baring few educated people most of these Mullahs have become so because they were incompetent to do anything else. Their families decided to make them Mullah so that they can earn bread and butter for themselves. And we the intelligent and educated crowd listen to them in Jumma Prayers and build our knowledge of Islam, which is ofcourse distorted. How can a dumb person be better then us to educate. Islam says first use your own wisdom and if you are unable to resolve your issues through your own intelligence then take advice from the person who is better then us. So are these mullahs who have been declared so just because their intelligence level was low be better then those having education, experience and wisdom. I feel surprised that many educated people get disillusioned by these incompetent people.


Yes i've read the book, all of it...? no... will i? no...
I can gain more by reading a chapter of my other books rather than finding a needle in the haystack and being pounced upon many for being blasphemous... now i will and shall never deny that the book is a source of great wisdom and knowledge but if anyone claims that it can lay the foundations of modern science, i'd say no...

Well that is perfectly your choice, however, research is name of reading and deliberating on a thing which you cannot understand by mere reading. Most of the people look at The book as a mean to seek forgiveness for their departed ones. "It is not a book of stories" and words to that effect already stated in this book.

Excellent sir, just what i thought, all i have to do is to link something in the book with something i observe... i honestly am for the half of time i am awake procrastinating about owning a business that churns a billion in a month... can i dedicate a few more of my minutes to this activity...? absolutely yes!
Indirectly this is what Bertrand Russel's theory. Unless you actually experience a thing you cannot correlate a prediction. I do not mean in anyway that soor will be broadcasted, my point was only a point to ponder.

We cannot let religion dictate the minds of our youth! absolutely not!
I say that not as a human but a Pakistani...
The reason behind that is the world is already ahead as it is... we are already far far behind... we need to catch up and for that we need to embrace science in it's actual and logical form and not one dictated by religion... there is nothing factual in that... you will be going around in circles...

I think I am a nationalist myself and firmly believe that Pakistan should be kept highest on our priority list. But I fail to understand your correlation with Religion and Science. I think we should embrace religion and use science which will give perfect dividends. Remember remember is a code of conduct for humans, just like any other prevailing laws in world. It does not stop you from doing research in the field of science. I am no Mullah and am firm believer that each person has a right to choose his religion. BTW Islam also does not force acceptance by force. It advocates spreading the teachings and leave it on individual to accept it or not. Yes the only restriction is that a person who has willingly embraced Islam cannot leave it. Therefore, decision to adopt the religion has to be whole heartedly and full faith; not merely to enjoy the benefits of polygamy.

When it comes to code of conduct, Islam is a very flexible and modern religion. Tell me which religion has so explicitly discussed physical relations of male and female. I know some will say Hinduism has, but not as part of their holy scriptures. I cannot discuss details of this aspect on the forum due to forum etiquette. But believe me the religion has given a lot of freedom, which unfortunately has been usurped by these incompetent Mullahs.

Look at the economical aspect. Today science talks about GDP what is GDP in simple words. Let the money circulate and you get higher GDP. Today world is talking about Quality, what is quality of a product. In simple words tell the buyer what you are selling. This concept has been discussed in Islam 1400 years back.

Give me one example where Islam has stopped people to do the research and I will change to the religion which is more versatile then Islam.

Problem is not education. Neither it is "failing to apply knowledge".

It is something else.

But your post is much appreciated.
I understand your point and agree to that, however, this post is looking at things at macro level.
 
Problem is not education. Neither it is "failing to apply knowledge".

It is something else.

But your post is much appreciated.

I would love an expansion of this reply when you have time.

The lists of great scientists from the middle easts past show that modern science stands on the shoulders of those giants, that the same quality does not seem to be present todays is a loss to us all.
 
I understand your point and agree to that, however, this post is looking at things at macro level.

Exactly my point!

I would love an expansion of this reply when you have time.

The lists of great scientists from the middle easts past show that modern science stands on the shoulders of those giants, that the same quality does not seem to be present todays is a loss to us all.

No way. For that I will have to unsheath my sword, which I have no intention doing so. It will be an ugly battle. I will win, but there will be so much casualty that you will puke.


elafnm4z9wnn9lz5x0ihuad0d.500x281x19.gif
 
It is NOT based on heresay... rather it is on religious bases that we hear such assumption and basically people take religion as a pillow on which they can fall back on... the concept of carrot and stick is well ingrained in religion we both know that...

And have you never touched yourself? is that sarcasm applicable to me only...? even at this very moment many would be doing that... even the ones who pose or actually religious to a great degree do that... anyways...

Can it be an aspiration... of course... our nobel prize winner took his theory's idea from the book too... but is it a sound basis on which we can rely on for our scientific needs? absolutely NOT!
I just wish that our future generations have a sound mental capacity that thinks logic and pragmatism... current one does not have it and we both know it doesn't...

By "you" I did not mean to address your personality, sorry if you took it that way, it was meant to be everyone including me.

Hear say was meant to apply to running commentaries and sayings which people made up and made others to believe that these are part of religion.

The concept of carrot and stick is ingrained but for life hereafter, if it was not the situation would be totally different, it is a gamble that we play, it is up to us to believe and follow or say "Dekha jy ga". Nobody can force no one not even the Satan can force me do a bad deed nor a Molvi can force me to be pious, it is up to me, my own action and will and thinking.

For your last paragraph (don't take it personally but) it depends on the mental capacity of individual that what he makes out of his aspirations, there are individuals who researched on each verse and were convinced and then there are individuals who tried manipulating verses' meaning for their individual gains and purposes, but book remains the same for both of them. I read it with simple translation when people used to say you should not and found it answering my basic simple questions according to my mental capability. For scientific logic and reasoning there are areas and Uloom where science won't be able to satisfy me because it won't have any answers for it. I don't consider science and scientists have matured enough that they can start challenging and questioning something greater that is beyond their capabilities. There is still a long way to go, many came and went away, that is why I said.

but the individual himself has to be careful how much he can absorb, many go nuts
 
o In the entire Muslim World (57 Muslim Countries) there are only 500 universities.
I suppose you don't count Iran as a muslim country .

there are about 2390 higher-education centers in Iran alone .

آمار دقیق تعداد دانشگاه های ایران در سال 90

In US there are about 6000 higher-education centers , yes . but please compare Iran's budget to that of US

High tech exports of Iran was about 6.3% of total exports in 2006 , which is very low but way ahead of most of 3rd world countries . Iran - High technology exports

===========

what i'm saying is : that your numbers are flawed and are not true . Iran - Turkey - Egypt - Indonesia are indeed doing a good job in scientific advancements .

we muslims almost literally gave life to science . Al-jibra ? Iranian muslim invented it . astronomy ? muslims rocked that shyte out .

we've got a long-long way to go to even come close to western countries , i admit that .

but hows that gonna happen ? by attacking eachother ? by killing each other ? or no ? by putting money into research instead of american toys to bomb yemen .

?
 
I suppose you don't count Iran as a muslim country .

there are about 2390 higher-education centers in Iran alone .

آمار دقیق تعداد دانشگاه های ایران در سال 90

In US there are about 6000 higher-education centers , yes . but please compare Iran's budget to that of US

High tech exports of Iran was about 6.3% of total exports in 2006 , which is very low but way ahead of most of 3rd world countries . Iran - High technology exports

===========

what i'm saying is : that your numbers are flawed and are not true . Iran - Turkey - Egypt - Indonesia are indeed doing a good job in scientific advancements .

we muslims almost literally gave life to science . Al-jibra ? Iranian muslim invented it . astronomy ? muslims rocked that shyte out .

we've got a long-long way to go to even come close to western countries , i admit that .

but hows that gonna happen ? by attacking eachother ? by killing each other ? or no ? by putting money into research instead of american toys to bomb yemen .

?
If you look at OP it states posted as received. This data has not been compiled by me. Iran is definitely a muslim country and its Universities should be included in the total count. I don't know how you rate higher education centers as university. Higher Education can be done through colleges. Like in Pakistan there are a number of colleges, but to reach the status of University a charter has to be granted by President or Parliament. I know there a number of Hauza e Ilmia operating in Iran, those can match any of the International Universities, how many of those have been chartered as Universities. I am sure there will be some requirements on competence and educational qualification of teaching staff, number of students, tenure, etc etc which would contribute to declaration of an educational institute to be University.

For example DOW Medical College has been one of the leading medical colleges of Pakistan, however, it has been declared as University just recently after six decades or more. On the other hand there are many private educational institutions which declare to be University from day 1, but in fact those are not.

Point is there must be some defined guidelines/criterion for an educational institution as University. This aspect can be explained better by someone who has more knowledge about it.

All said and done, I full agree that Iran has done a very well as far as science is concerned. Western world is still divided over cloning, but Iran has found a solution to it and doing extensive research. Its good that you came up with this post. It proves OP. I admire Iran for having excelled in aviation industry, despite countless sanctions. All this was possible because of education and that is the underlying objective of OP.
 
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