While waiting for production certificate, N219 plane gets 120 orders

[Ahmet Pasha]

In Baluchistan province and Northern Area it could find its market and utility for the governments of these regions

We have ATRs for that very soon we are about to have Chinese regional jets.

This type of aircraft would be good as a cargo airplane or skydive or used in smaller African, Central Asian, Latino countries will be its strongest markets.

 

[Nike]

It is in the same class nothing special. It isn't what it is drummed up to be. If they made an atr or E190 equivalent then it would have been good news for me and a big win for Indonesia.

For now it is just another airplane in the class of the Dornier.

No, i just ask where is the proof it is rebadge aircraft?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

C212 is joint development between CASA and IPTN to begin with, and N219 eliminate the ramp door and enlarge the cargo cabin with lower speed as they intended for regular commercial flight

Exactly what I said. If you had made something like the Mitsubishi MRJ or Sukhoi super jet then it would have grasped my attention and raised an eye brow.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

No, i just ask where is the proof it is rebadge aircraft?

refer to you own post #45

 

[Indos]

Exactly what I said. If you had made something like the Mitsubishi MRJ or Sukhoi super jet then it would have grasped my attention and raised an eye brow.

We would likely have already made something like Sukhoi superjet and fly in 2005 if we dont become the worst affected country in Asian Financial Crisis (1997-2000). IMF forbid us to finance N 250 and N 2130 program (similar like Boeing 737). N 250 has flown and N 2130 is still in wind tunnel testing.

Here you can see planes and drones that we have developed (except Anka/Aksungur/Hensa where Turkish and Iran use Indonesian expertise and facility to test their design). Here is prove that N 2130 has been tested in wind tunnel test and most probably it was in 1997.

Indonesian wind tunnel facility (BBTA3)

We try to come back, here R80 planes that is similar in class with ATR 72 undergo wind tunnel test in our facility. Current government doesnt have ambition to build it (as I said Jokowi has weakness in developing high tech industry), so I hope next administration will finance the program.

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[Ahmet Pasha]

We would likely have already made something like Sukhoi superjet and fly in 2005 if we dont become the worst affected country in Asian Financial Crisis (1997-2000). IMF forbid us to finance N 250 and N 2130 program (similar like Boeing 737). N 250 has flown and N 2130 is still in wind tunnel testing.

Here you can see planes and drones that we have developed (except Anka/Aksungur/Hensa where Turkish and Iran use Indonesian expertise and facility to test their design). Here is prove that N 2130 has been tested in wind tunnel test and most probably it was in 1997.

We try to come back, here R80 planes that is similar in class with ATR 72 undergo wind tunnel test in our facility. Current government doesnt have ambition to build it (as I said Jokowi has weakness in developing high tech industry), so I hope next administration will finance the program.

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Then insha Allah you will do it one day. When you do I will be the first one to congratulate you

 

[Indos]

C212 is joint development between CASA and IPTN to begin with, and N219 eliminate the ramp door and enlarge the cargo cabin with lower speed as they intended for regular commercial flight

No, it is not. It is not a modification of C212. N 219 is made from clean sheet, it is what Indonesian Aerospace official said and it is why the look is quite different. Not only the look but also dimension, length, and height is different. If it is a modification then Indonesian Aerospace has to said it as a modification publicly like what he said about N245 program.

The reason they make it from clean sheet is to give experience for the young generation engineers. During early development around 2008, majority of company designers are young engineers that dont have design experience yet. So N 219 program is essential to transfer design knowledge from senior engineers who are about to retire into junior ones.

This is also why the development took quite long, although money is also another problem of why it took the development so long. I still remember when I read a publication talking about the history of the plane, Indonesian aerospace official said every one senior engineer (designer) will be accompanied with 4 junior engineers during the design process. This is the approach taken by the company to transfer design knowledge and experience from senior engineers to junior ones who have zero design experience at that time.

Many senior engineers left Indonesian Aerospace because of the company get financial difficulties due to IMF prohibition for the government to finance 2 ambitious program (N250 and N2130), this is why there are around 200 Indonesian engineers working in Boeing and others, while some of them are called to help KFX/IFX program.

The one that could be said as modification is N 245, which is a modification of CN 235 by eliminating ramp door and several adjustment on the design. Indonesian Aerospace official also said N 245 is a modification of CN 235, while they dont talk like that about N 219.

Many westerners try to play down Indonesian achievement and some guys here in PDF buy that, even you also buy that.

C 212-400

N 219

Cessna Sky Courier (just has maiden flight in 2020)

They are all 19 seats class passenger plane.

 

[nufix]

We publicly admit it is a partnership/JV/workshare agreement.

Yes because there were actual workshare. Meanwhile, the N219 was developed solely by the PTDI. Or else find me a Casa product that is identical to theN219.

 

[nufix]

It is in the same class nothing special. It isn't what it is drummed up to be. If they made an atr or E190 equivalent then it would have been good news for me and a big win for Indonesia.

For now it is just another airplane in the class of the Dornier.

Being in the same class is not the same as rebadging. By that logic A320 is just a rebadged B737 just because they belong to the same narrow body passenger aircraft? What kind of logic is that?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

No, it is not. It is not a modification of C212. N 219 is made from clean sheet, it is what Indonesian Aerospace official said and it is why the look is quite different. Not only the look but also dimension, length, and height is different. If it is a modification then Indonesian Aerospace has to said it as a modification publicly like what he said about N245 program.

The reason they make it from clean sheet is to give experience for the young generation engineers. During early development around 2008, majority of company designers are young engineers that dont have design experience yet. So N 219 program is essential to transfer design knowledge from senior engineers who are about to retire into junior ones.

This is also why the development took quite long, although money is also another problem of why it took the development so long. I still remember when I read a publication talking about the history of the plane, Indonesian aerospace official said every one senior engineer (designer) will be accompanied with 4 junior engineers during the design process.

Many senior engineers left Indonesian Aerospace because of the company get financial difficulties due to IMF prohibition for the government to finance 2 ambitious program (N250 and N2130), this is why there are around 200 Indonesian engineers working in Boeing and others, while some of them are called to help KFX/IFX program.

The one that could be said as modification is N 245, which is a modification of CN 235 by eliminating ramp door and several adjustment on the design. Indonesian Aerospace official also said N 245 is a modification of CN 235, while they dont talk like that about N 219.

Many westerners try to play down Indonesian achievement and some guys here in PDF buy that, even you also buy that.

C 212-400

View attachment 667127

N 219
View attachment 667128

Cessna Sky Courier (just has maiden flight in 2020)
View attachment 667129

They are all 19 seats class passenger plane.

I hope you can find someone to sell this plane, handsome and able to do business in the area, especially on domestic routes. In the meantime, you should create and request a topic for Indonesian missile / rocket development. You know, it's good to be able to learn information about Indonesia or Malaysia seriously from someone other than the "Malon" fights on the internet.

 

[Indos]

I hope you can find someone to sell this plane, handsome and able to do business in the area, especially on domestic routes. In the meantime, you should create and request a topic for Indonesian missile / rocket development. You know, it's good to be able to learn information about Indonesia or Malaysia seriously from someone other than the "Malon" fights on the internet.

Thanks for your wish bro, I also hope Turkish can successfully develop turbojet engine, it is crucial for us so we dont need to rely too much with Western countries.

Ha ha internet fight with Malaysian

Our people to people relation is quite good now, latest internet behavior is quite promising, no fight any more and seems supportive to each other he he.

That Pakistani guy try to play down the program because it is actually only 19 seats turboprop passenger airplane. Actually there is a reason of why we develop N 219 plane. Indonesian Aerospace now try to change the paradigm from making a modern and sophisticated aircraft like N 250 and N 2130 into making a simple plane that can sell with minimal cost of development. So they are now more business oriented.

So Yes, one of the main reasons of why we develop N 219 is because the development cost is relatively much cheaper than plane like R 80 and there is market demand inside the country. Our former Indonesian aerospace Director, BJ Habibie even said N 219 is a toy plane. R 80 plane, on the other hand, needs serious government backing since the development cost is much higher and I dont expect current government do serious effort to complete the development based on their behavior in treating high tech program with relatively high cost, KFX/IFX program can be an example of it.

I rather support Indonesian Aerospace changed paradigm, what we need to do now is to enter civilian market successfully. This is our second attempt after failed with N 250 due to IMF prohibition. Unlike their treatment with India, IMF was rather treating Indonesia differently. This is why we dont want to get loan from IMF anymore and has paid all of our debt in 2008, alhamduliLLAH.

About rocket development, I have made a thread about it. I will try to tag you there, but we are nothing in this field compared to Iran, but for South East Asian region, I believe we are number one. We dont develop this field seriously during Soeharto regime and it started to get better attention during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono administration, but still the fund is minimal, our space agency even said last year that they cannot hire more staff due to financial issue.

 

[Indos]

@RadarGudumluMuhimmat

Indonesia Rocket Program

Indonesia successfully launches two sounding rockets By Deyana Goh - December 10, 2017 Indonesia’s space agency LAPAN has successfully conducted two test flights of two of its sounding rockets, the RX 450 and RX 1220. The launches took place last week at the Space and Atmospheric Observation...

defence.pk

 

[Indos]

Flying low above the sea

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303877280234520577

 

[Indos]

Look like N 219 performing quick climbing and descending maneuver

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305783738073194496

 

[Indos]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306144574503399424