Which Middle Eastern nation has the most advanced independent space program?

[Rukarl]

It just simply means Iran has developed a more powerful fuel/engine combination for the second stage in comparison ... it would indicate that the rocket have to be so much more sophisticated and worrying than what you expected which means Iran has successfully reduced dead weight ( airframe , engine masses , propellant tank masses, the navigation and control units ) dramatically ...lower structural mass ratios.

This hasbar troll either:

1- Is too stupid to understand what you're trying to tell him/her
2- Is pretending to not know.

Either way don't expect this ISIS/terrorists sympathiser whom was demoted from their "think tank" status for supporting terrorism to agree with what you say.

But it's hilarious to what extend these hasbara are willing to embarrass themselves. They funniest part is that their own officials are saying the exact opposite of what this hasbara troll is pretending to believe.

 

[500]

3 stages is more efficient pure physics. Here simplified calculation. Here two rockets of same weight. One is 3 stage another 2 stage. Each section has total mass 10*m and dry mass m and specific impulse u. Also payload has also mass of m.

Lets calculate the final speed.

Two stage rocket:

ln(31m/13m) + ln11m/2m = ln (31/13) + ln(11/2) = 2.573 u

Three stage rocket:

ln(31/22) + ln(21/12)+ln(11/2) = 2.607 u

And as I proven earlier and so did Soheil, it is the North Koreans whom are using Iranian help and technology now.

What are u talking about? Unha is much more advanced and powerful than Safir.

 

[Rukarl]

What are u talking about? Unha is much more advanced and powerful than Safir.

We're talking about simorgh here not safir, you hasbara troll. Have you lost it?

And I have showed using sources that experts also believe not only is Iranian Simorgh more advanced than unha, it's design is also being used to influence N korean system and that was most probably the reason they finally had a successful launch.

 

[500]

We're talking about simorgh here not safir, you hasbara troll. Have you lost it?

And I have showed using sources that experts also believe not only is Iranian Simorgh more advanced than unha, it's design is also being used to influence N korean system and that was most probably the reason they finally had a successful launch.

Unha and Simorgh are nothing but two versions of same rocket.

Same mass - 90 t
Same sizes - first stage diameter 2.4 m, second stage diameter 1.5 m.
Same 4 IRFNA/UDMH engines.

Difference is that Unha is 3 stage and Simorgh - 2 stage. 3 stage is more energy efficient, 2 stage is simpler and theoretically more reliable.

First launch of Unha was in 2009 while Simorgh in 2016. Probably nasty North Koreans invented a time machine and stole Iranian technology.

 

[Rukarl]

Unha and Simorgh are nothing but two versions of same rocket.

Same mass - 90 t
Same sizes - first stage diameter 2.4 m, second stage diameter 1.5 m.
Same 4 IRFNA/UDMH engines.

Difference is that Unha is 3 stage and Simorgh - 2 stage. 3 stage is more energy efficient, 2 stage is simpler and theoretically more reliable.

First launch of Unha was in 2009 while Simorgh in 2016. Probably nasty North Koreans invented a time machine and stole Iranian technology.

As usual, the hasbara troll is posting statements without any real source or evidence. You've desperately pretending to ignore all the sources posted.



here are the facts:

Unha rocket is taller then Iranian one:

You're obviously mentally handicapped and can't see the obvious size difference.

More facts:

"The first stage of the Simorgh is significantly larger than the first stage of theUnha-series (Annotation 3). Estimates derived from models of the Simorgh displayed in public suggest it is about two meters longer, suggesting that it carries more propellant and possibly that the airframe is more advanced."

Thus your claim of them having same size first stage is none-sense.

"The ratio of the fuel and oxidizer tanks is different from the Unha, too, suggesting the Simorgh may use a different combination of propellants "

the ratio of the fuel and oxidizer tanks is different, suggesting a different combination of propellants.

Source:
http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/

First launch of Unha was in 2009 while Simorgh in 2016. Probably nasty North Koreans invented a time machine and stole Iranian technology.

Once, the hasbara terrorist sympathiser is pretending to be ignorant. Nobody is talking about the first launch date but rather the first time the North korean successfully launched a satellite using their Unha, and that was after their Unha was upgraded with clear Iranian influence.

Here is a source:

"North Korea’s Unha-series may now incorporate some Iranian technologies. North Korea’s Unha-2 launch in 2009 failed when the rocket’s third stage did not separate properly. North Korea’s first successful Unha-series launch, in December 2012, used a larger third stage that appeared to be similar to a rocket stage previously seen only in Iran. "

Furthermore,

"In addition to apparent improvements in the Simorgh, the Unha-series may now incorporate some Iranian technologies. The third stage of the Unha appears similar to a rocket stage first seen in Iran on the Safir SLV."

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/


Another epic fail by the hasbara troll.

 

[500]

Name calling is sign of frustration and lack of arguments. As I said above Simorgh is just 2 stage version of Unha. In order to ditch 3rd stage u should increase fuel tanks of first and second stages. Thats about it. As I explained both have their pros and cons.

For example, there are many versions of Scud with different fuel tank sizes. Scud-A, Scud-B. Scud-C, Scud-D. It does not make them different missiles, just modifications:

Grow up.

 

[Rukarl]

Name calling is sign of frustration and lack of arguments. As I said above Simorgh is just 2 stage version of Unha. In order to ditch 3rd stage u should increase fuel tanks of first and second stages. Thats about it. As I explained both have their pros and cons.


Grow up.

All I did was state fact. You used to be a think tank and were demoted for supporting terrorists.
Furthermore, I provided sources whilst you have provided not a shred of evidence for your claims. Just nonesense.

Simorgh is a 2 stage Unha and yet its first stage is much bigger:

"
"The first stage of the Simorgh is significantly larger than the first stage of theUnha-series (Annotation 3). Estimates derived from models of the Simorgh displayed in public suggest it is about two meters longer, suggesting that it carries more propellant and possibly that the airframe is more advanced."

Not only that, they:

the ratio of the fuel and oxidizer tanks is different, suggesting a different combination of propellants.

Source:
http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/

You see Hasbara troll, unlike you I am actually providing sources from experts and not unsubstantiated gibberish.

For example, there are many versions of Scud with different fuel tank sizes. Scud-A, Scud-B. Scud-C, Scud-D. It does not make them different missiles, just modifications:

We are talking about your nonsensical claims about Unha and simorgh. You once again desperately try to muddy the waters. Your desperate attempts only work to embarrass you troll.

Scuds are actually part of the same family officially whereas you, a troll on a forum are trying to claim Unha and simorgh are based on each other. All your claims have been debunked so far.

Only thing simorgh and unha share is their engine, and even they are configurated differently:

By your logic we could also claim American SLV's are based on Russian ones because they use Russian engines

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Israel. Iran may have a space program but all in all it's a very underdeveloped country. That's what is important.

 

[Rukarl]

Israel. Iran may have a space program but all in all it's a very underdeveloped country. That's what is important.

Here the comes this butthurt kid again. Underdeveloped my behind. Iran is ranked 1st in middle east in aerospace publications and 11th in the world:

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?year=2015&category=2202

Israels space program is mostly reliant on foreigners. The only thing active about their program is having foreigners launch sats for them. One of which was space x's SLV which exploded yesterday.

 

[SOHEIL]

@Rukarl... hasbara is drunk ... let it go !

Israel. Iran may have a space program but all in all it's a very underdeveloped country. That's what is important.

Can you explain underdeveloped part?

 

[Archdemon]

Here the comes this butthurt kid again. Underdeveloped my behind. Iran is ranked 1st in middle east in aerospace publications and 11th in the world:

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?year=2015&category=2202

Israels space program is mostly reliant on foreigners. The only thing active about their program is having foreigners launch sats for them. One of which was space x's SLV which exploded yesterday.

Academic publication? You attempt to prove that Iran is ahead of Israel i space technologies? First of all quantity is not equal quality. Secondly, aerospace engineer is a niche of academics, to design and build rockets and satellites combine many fields, computer science, material science, physics, mathematics and so on. Thirdly, following logic of your argument apparently India Italy France Canada Germany United Kingdom are all ahead of Russia, make sense? Only if you are an idiot.

 

[SOHEIL]

Academic publication? You attempt to prove that Iran is ahead of Israel i space technologies? First of all quantity is not equal quality. Secondly, aerospace engineer is a niche of academics, to design and build rockets and satellites combine many fields, computer science, material science, physics, mathematics and so on. Thirdly, following logic of your argument apparently India Italy France Canada Germany United Kingdom are all ahead of Russia, make sense? Only if you are an idiot.

This is all about trolling each other...

Nobody can deny IAI capabilities ...

Academic publication? You attempt to prove that Iran is ahead of Israel i space technologies? First of all quantity is not equal quality. Secondly, aerospace engineer is a niche of academics, to design and build rockets and satellites combine many fields, computer science, material science, physics, mathematics and so on. Thirdly, following logic of your argument apparently India Italy France Canada Germany United Kingdom are all ahead of Russia, make sense? Only if you are an idiot.

This is all about trolling each other...

Nobody can deny IAI capabilities ...

 

[500]

whereas you, a troll on a forum are trying to claim Unha and simorgh are based on each other. All your claims have been debunked so far.

Let me quote from same source which you are using:

The Simorgh uses engines developed for the Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile (See annotation 1 in the Sketchfab model). The Shahab-3 is Iran’s version of North Korea’s Nodong missile, which Iran improved with assistance from Russian and Chinese entities.

Specifically, the first stage of the Simorgh uses a cluster of four Shahab-3 engines. This approach is very similar to North Korea’s Unha launch vehicles, whose first stages have used a cluster of four Nodong engines (Annotation 2).

Iran’s space program has generally followed the steps taken in North Korea. Iran’s Safir launch vehicle is similar in approach to North Korea’s Paektusan (TD-1) SLV, just as the Simorgh is similar in approach to North Korea’s Unha (TD-2) SLVs.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/

So all your space program is solely based on North Korea.

As for fuel tank size and ratios which u are posting - thats just minor modification, just like Scud-B and Scud-C:

 

[raptor22]

Let me quote from same source which you are using:

The Simorgh uses engines developed for the Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile (See annotation 1 in the Sketchfab model). The Shahab-3 is Iran’s version of North Korea’s Nodong missile, which Iran improved with assistance from Russian and Chinese entities.

Specifically, the first stage of the Simorgh uses a cluster of four Shahab-3 engines. This approach is very similar to North Korea’s Unha launch vehicles, whose first stages have used a cluster of four Nodong engines (Annotation 2).

Iran’s space program has generally followed the steps taken in North Korea. Iran’s Safir launch vehicle is similar in approach to North Korea’s Paektusan (TD-1) SLV, just as the Simorgh is similar in approach to North Korea’s Unha (TD-2) SLVs.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/

So all your space program is solely based on North Korea.

As for fuel tank size and ratios which u are posting - thats just minor modification, just like Scud-B and Scud-C:

NO they are not, the approaches are different , Iran has aimed to achieve heavy Earth orbiting capability with a multistage launch vehicle while the second and parallel effort aimed to develop the technologies for sustaining Iranian astronauts in space.

1) While the launch tower of the 80-metric-ton Simorgh is being completed in Iran’s current space port of Semnan, an even larger launch site is being constructed in Sharoud, about 185 kilometers to the east. The scale of the Sharoud facility is almost mind-boggling with a concrete apron nearly 2 meters thick, 200 meters long and 135 meters wide, probably to serve for an enormous third-generation Iranian launch vehicle yet to be unveiled.

2) Concurrently, Iran is progressing steadily toward perfecting a life-support system for humans in space. This is being achieved by ever more complex suborbital space launches using rockets and ballistic missile stages with recoverable capsules. From launching and recovering simple life forms such as worms, Iran graduated into a successful launch and recovery of a live monkey in December 2013.

​

On the face of it, nothing could be more different than the Iranian and North Korean space programs. In contrast to Iran’s step-by-step progress along the learning curve, the North Korean program is quirky, the contrary to good engineering practice. Where the Iranians exhibit patience and a long-term view, the North Korean regime seems to be in a hurry for immediate gratification in its quest for prestige.

 

[Rukarl]

Let me quote from same source which you are using:

The Simorgh uses engines developed for the Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile (See annotation 1 in the Sketchfab model). The Shahab-3 is Iran’s version of North Korea’s Nodong missile, which Iran improved with assistance from Russian and Chinese entities.

Specifically, the first stage of the Simorgh uses a cluster of four Shahab-3 engines. This approach is very similar to North Korea’s Unha launch vehicles, whose first stages have used a cluster of four Nodong engines (Annotation 2).

Desperate hasbara troll, I have said from the beginning that they use the same engine. You're basically replying to me with what I have been saying right from the start

As I said, even Americans use the same engines as some Russian SLV's, by your logic, American SLVS are copies of Russian SLV's

just as the Simorgh is similar in approach to North Korea’s Unha (TD-2) SLVs.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/will-irans-simorgh-space-launcher-appear-north-korea/

It seems this hasbara troll can't read, you just quoted them as they said the Simorgh and Unha are similar. whilst you were claiming the simorgh is a copies of unha first 2 stages You just quoted a source that completely contradicts what you've been saying . What an epic fail.
Many SLV's are similar, it does not mean anything. In this case, it just means Iran has helped north korean and that is why you can see Iranian influence in their systems.

"North Korea’s Unha-series may now incorporate some Iranian technologies. North Korea’s Unha-2 launch in 2009 failed when the rocket’s third stage did not separate properly. North Korea’s first successful Unha-series launch, in December 2012, used a larger third stage that appeared to be similar to a rocket stage previously seen only in Iran. "

This is from the very source you're quoting. It seems this hasbara can't even read.

So all your space program is solely based on North Korea.

As for fuel tank size and ratios which u are posting - thats just minor modification, just like Scud-B and Scud-C:

You're posting from my source but making claims that have nothing o do with they've said. I can also post that source and say shavit is basically French technology.

To remind you:


Scuds are actually part of the same family officially whereas you, a troll on a forum are trying to claim Unha and simorgh are based on each other. All your claims have been debunked so far.

Only thing simorgh and unha share is their engine, and even they are configurated differently:

They even use different propellant:

the ratio of the fuel and oxidizer tanks is different, suggesting a different combination of propellants.

So they are different size, Iranian simorgh has a much bigger first stage, Unha uses Iranian third stage design, they use different propellant. They're completely different system and only thing they share is an engine which I have said the beginning.