Which country BD want a better tie in the future?

[khair_ctg]

That is untruth as far as it goes. Urdu has never been a language which have had a foothold among Bengali Muslims! There have been Urdu speakers in Bengal, more in western part than eastern, but they are migrants from North India and my wild guess is you and many others in this forum fall under that category.

Before Bengali became the language of court as well as ligua franca, Persian was used by Nabwabs of Murshidabad as official language and then English when Bengal was colonized by Britons. Both educated Muslims and educated Hindus used to learn Persian and then English as a second language which would help them to secure a job. There have never been a single instance of Urdu getting used as court language or lingua franca. Please peddle the snake oil of yours to people who are not Bengali or have little idea of history of Bengal.

the difference between posters like yours and myself is i'm simply mentioning historical facts and explaining our linguistic practices and traditions as i observe and you are in denial. you just need a little dose of Bengali history and break from the Tagorized sanskrit-praising narratives, for the goal that you may simply heed to something you don't know about or had a different understanding of. many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu and Farsi. a Bengali does not necessarily have to be of known North Indian descent to be practicing Urdu, unless you are making the assumption that traditionally only North Indian descent Bengali Muslims received any education

 

[Armstrong]

the difference between posters like yours and myself is i'm simply mentioning historical facts and explaining our linguistic practices and traditions as i observe and you are in denial. you just need a little dose of Bengali history and break from the Tagorized sanskrit-praising narratives, for the goal that you may simply heed to something you don't know about or had a different understanding of. many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu and Farsi. a Bengali does not necessarily have to be of known North Indian descent to be practicing Urdu, unless you are making the assumption that traditionally only North Indian descent Bengali Muslims received any education

Urdu hai jiss ka naaam hameiiin janteiii hain Dagh,

Sareii jahan mein dhoom hamariii zabaan ki haii !

 

[LaBong]

the difference between posters like yours and myself is i'm simply mentioning historical facts and explaining our linguistic practices and traditions as i observe and you are in denial. you just need a little dose of Bengali history and break from the Tagorized sanskrit-praising narratives, for the goal that you may simply heed to something you don't know about or had a different understanding of. many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu and Farsi. a Bengali does not necessarily have to be of known North Indian descent to be practicing Urdu, unless you are making the assumption that traditionally only North Indian descent Bengali Muslims received any education

Now from all educated Muslim Bengalis learned and patronized Urdu, you shifted your goalpost to many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu. Expected.

I know your kind have this unnatural hatred towards Tagore for reason unknown, but neither Tagore has anything to do with it nor is your incoherent rambling and constant shifting of goalpost be termed as historical facts.

You are but just another clueless poster with presumptions and prejudice and if I were you I would back up my "historical claims" with proper citations. Friends of friends don't count as historical fact.

unless you are making the assumption that traditionally only North Indian descent Bengali Muslims received any education

Only an idiot would assume getting an education means learning Urdu, or may it is the case in your community. It was not the case for Bengali Muslims during the reign of Nabwab or English or today! I have known many educated Bengali Muslims and their profession varied from medical surgeon to software developer to astrophysicist and I can assure you Hindustani was neither in their tradition nor in their curriculum.

Here is a quiz for you - Can you name one single Bengali laureate who composed anything significant in Urdu? Afterall Bengalis are overwhelmingly leaned toward art than any other part of subcontinent and would it not be strange that neither of this countless educated Muslims of yours who traditionally practiced and patronized Urdu, have contributed nothing to Urdu literature! After all I can recall many Bengali Muslims who have outstanding contribution towards Bengali literarture, one of the tower just beside the man you so hate, Tagore, and was his ardent admirer.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Urdu hai jiss ka naaam hameiiin janteiii hain Dagh,

Sareii jahan mein dhoom hamariii zabaan ki haii !

Zabardast , Butt Saab.....

 

[khair_ctg]

Urdu hai jiss ka naaam hameiiin janteiii hain Dagh,

Sareii jahan mein dhoom hamariii zabaan ki haii !

Wah Wah

abhi google se pucha, familiar nahi tha

Daag Dehlvi

Bhai ap shayir admi hai?

 

[INDIC]

the difference between posters like yours and myself is i'm simply mentioning historical facts and explaining our linguistic practices and traditions as i observe and you are in denial. you just need a little dose of Bengali history and break from the Tagorized sanskrit-praising narratives, for the goal that you may simply heed to something you don't know about or had a different understanding of. many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu and Farsi. a Bengali does not necessarily have to be of known North Indian descent to be practicing Urdu, unless you are making the assumption that traditionally only North Indian descent Bengali Muslims received any education

Historical fact is Urdu had no foothold in Bengal. Pakistanis speak Urdu because Punjab was the only province where British didn't promote the native language Punjabi instead introduced Urdu from UP which Punjabis accepted for the sake of Muslim nationalism. Very soon Lahore evolved as the centre of Urdu literature and Punjabis already had a great exposure to Urdu by the time Pakistan was created. While in Bengal, the native language Bengali was promoted and Bengalis traditionally never accepted or exposed to Urdu language and the difference came in open just after the creation of Pakistan.

 

[khair_ctg]

Now from all educated Muslim Bengalis learned and patronized Urdu, you shifted your goalpost to many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu. Expected.

I know your kind have this unnatural hatred towards Tagore for reason unknown, but neither Tagore has anything to do with it nor is your incoherent rambling and constant shifting of goalpost be termed as historical facts.

You are but just another clueless poster with presumptions and prejudice and if I were you I would back up my "historical claims" with proper citations. Friends of friends don't count as historical fact.



Only an idiot would assume getting an education means learning Urdu, or may it is the case in your community. It was not the case for Bengali Muslims during the reign of Nabwab or English or today! I have known many educated Bengali Muslims and their profession varied from medical surgeon to software developer to astrophysicist and I can assure you Hindustani was neither in their tradition nor in their curriculum.

Here is a quiz for you - Can you name one single Bengali laureate who composed anything significant in Urdu? Afterall Bengalis are overwhelmingly leaned toward art than any other part of subcontinent and would it not be strange that neither of this countless educated Muslims of yours who traditionally practiced and patronized Urdu, have contributed nothing to Urdu literature! After all I can recall many Bengali Muslims who have outstanding contribution towards Bengali literarture, one of the tower just beside the man you so hate, Tagore, and was his ardent admirer.

Hakim Ashraf Ali, Ubaidullah Suhrawardy, Hakim Habib ur Rahman, Ahmed Saad, even Kazi Nazr ul Islam. find others yourself. or do you not consider them "laureates"?
you are denying some documented facts and reality that people like me live with everyday
even couple of late relatives i know have written Urdu literary pieces.
i'm not saying that traditional place of Urdu still exists though

 

[TopCat]

Now from all educated Muslim Bengalis learned and patronized Urdu, you shifted your goalpost to many Bengali families have traditional practice of Urdu. Expected.

I know your kind have this unnatural hatred towards Tagore for reason unknown, but neither Tagore has anything to do with it nor is your incoherent rambling and constant shifting of goalpost be termed as historical facts.

You are but just another clueless poster with presumptions and prejudice and if I were you I would back up my "historical claims" with proper citations. Friends of friends don't count as historical fact.



Only an idiot would assume getting an education means learning Urdu, or may it is the case in your community. It was not the case for Bengali Muslims during the reign of Nabwab or English or today! I have known many educated Bengali Muslims and their profession varied from medical surgeon to software developer to astrophysicist and I can assure you Hindustani was neither in their tradition nor in their curriculum.

Here is a quiz for you - Can you name one single Bengali laureate who composed anything significant in Urdu? Afterall Bengalis are overwhelmingly leaned toward art than any other part of subcontinent and would it not be strange that neither of this countless educated Muslims of yours who traditionally practiced and patronized Urdu, have contributed nothing to Urdu literature! After all I can recall many Bengali Muslims who have outstanding contribution towards Bengali literarture, one of the tower just beside the man you so hate, Tagore, and was his ardent admirer.

All the writings of my forefather was in Urdu. Prose and poetry. He was just an ameature writer and nothing was ever printed.

 

[khair_ctg]

Historical fact is Urdu had no foothold in Bengal. Pakistanis speak Urdu because Punjab was the only province where British didn't promote native language Punjabi instead introduced Urdu from UP which Punjabis accepted for the sake of Muslim nationalism. Very soon Lahore evolved as the centre of Urdu literature and Punjabis already had a great exposure to Urdu by the time Pakistan was created. While in Bengal, the native language Bengali was promoted and Bengalis traditionally never accepted or exposed to Urdu language and the difference came in open just after the creation of Pakistan.

East Bengal had a dramatic decline under British rule, okay. i'm not making comparisons between places here as that is not the point. Calcutta under British rule was a center of Urdu practice, and published work and printing. do yourself a favor and research the most notable literary works and print media there. in Bengal native Musalmani Bengali was never fully standardized or "promoted". it was the Calcutta-based Bengali language that was standardized and heavily promoted. Bengalis wholeheartedly accepted and practiced Urdu. the decline of Urdu afterwards was political and some your preferential views of Urdu in Bengal and possibly that of many other indians holding power may have something to do with. your narratives are extremely political and have no connection to reality. if a language has got any "foothold" or anything else in my land, that's for me to decide, not you.

 

[Soms]

East Bengal had a dramatic decline under British rule, okay. i'm not making comparisons between places here as that is not the point. Calcutta under British rule was a center of Urdu practice, and published work and printing. do yourself a favor and research the most notable literary works and print media there. in Bengal native Musalmani Bengali was never fully standardized or "promoted". it was the Calcutta-based Bengali language that was standardized and heavily promoted. Bengalis wholeheartedly accepted and practiced Urdu. the decline of Urdu afterwards was political and some your preferential views of Urdu in Bengal and possibly that of many other indians holding power may have something to do with. your narratives are extremely political and have no connection to reality. if a language has got any "foothold" or anything else in my land, that's for me to decide, not you.

You have some good facts ...i agree
But you are also making a lot of sweeping statements.

 

[INDIC]

East Bengal had a dramatic decline under British rule, okay. i'm not making comparisons between places here as that is not the point. Calcutta under British rule was a center of Urdu practice, and published work and printing. do yourself a favor and research the most notable literary works and print media there. in Bengal native Musalmani Bengali was never fully standardized or "promoted". it was the Calcutta-based Bengali language that was standardized and heavily promoted. Bengalis wholeheartedly accepted and practiced Urdu. the decline of Urdu afterwards was political and some your preferential views of Urdu in Bengal and possibly that of many other indians holding power may have something to do with. your narratives are extremely political and have no connection to reality. if a language has got any "foothold" or anything else in my land, that's for me to decide, not you.

Calcutta was the capital of British India, so it was the centre of many things. This monument shows your love for Bengali language and no love for Urdu language.

 

[khair_ctg]

Calcutta was the capital of British India, so it was the centre of many things. This monument shows your love for Bengali language and no love for Urdu language.

me and most grown ups i have seen in BD couldn't care less about this. only when i was very young though i did the flower placing and stuff. most even agree it's somewhat heretic. and it totally supports how political things have been turned into to serve an agenda we are very familiar with

 

[LaBong]

Hakim Ashraf Ali, Ubaidullah Suhrawardy, Hakim Habib ur Rahman, Ahmed Saad, even Kazi Nazr ul Islam. find others yourself. or do you not consider them "laureates"?
you are denying some documented facts and reality that people like me live with everyday
even couple of late relatives i know have written Urdu literary pieces.
i'm not saying that traditional place of Urdu still exists though

They mainly composed in Persian, their Urdu works are insignificant. One of them related to Baghdadi Sufi family of Suharawardis and another Kashmiri marchent family of Dhaka Nawab. Like I said, Persian was the language of court during Nawab's time and educated Muslims followed the "tradition" in Persian. Even Iqbal had his majority of work in Persian. Urdu never flourished in Bengal, if you think it is otherwise then obviously you are misinformed.

I have nothing against Urdu/Hindustani. In fact the very first major literary work of your much-hated Tagore was in Braj-Bhasa which is very close to Awadhi(Lucknow) Hindustani and used extensively in Hindustani classical music, however the idea of Urdu being "patronized" and "traditionally" spoken in all educated Bengali Muslim families is simply incorrect.

There was no Musalmani Bangla except in mind of revisionists. Before mass absorption of Tatsama words in Bengali, it was mainly Magadhi Prakrit based language with indigenous Desi vocabulary.

 

[Saiful Islam]

They mainly composed in Persian, their Urdu works are insignificant. One of them related to Baghdadi Sufi family of Suharawardis and another Kashmiri marchent family of Dhaka Nawab. Like I said, Persian was the language of court during Nawab's time and educated Muslims followed the "tradition" in Persian. Even Iqbal had his majority of work in Persian. Urdu never flourished in Bengal, if you think it is otherwise then obviously you are misinformed.

I have nothing against Urdu/Hindustani. In fact the very first major literary work of your much-hated Tagore was in Braj-Bhasa which is very close to Hindustani and used extensively in Hindustani classical music, however the idea of Urdu being "patronized" and "traditionally" spoken in all educated Muslim families is simply incorrect.

There was no Musalmani Bangla except in mind of revisionists. Before mass absorption of Tatsama words in Bengali, it was mainly Magadhi Prakrit based language with indigenous Desi vocabulary.

I partially agree that Urdu never flourished in Bangladesh, we do not want to eradicate our language, but you're very misinformed, there is a Musulmani Bangla, there always has been a Musulmani Bangla, actually, the local Bangla in BD is very different.

 

[LaBong]

I partially agree that Urdu never flourished in Bangladesh, we do not want to eradicate our language, but you're very misinformed, there is a Musulmani Bangla, there always has been a Musulmani Bangla, actually, the local Bangla in BD is very different.

The local Bangla of East Bengal, which my grandfather used to speak flawlessly has nothing to do with any religion. It's a dialect just as there are other dialects exist in Birbhum, Bakura of West Bengal.

Just because you guys say Paani and we say Jol, doesn't make it Musalmani. Both after all apabhramsa of Sanskrit!