Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[Khalid_sdt]

Democracy until the majority can prove what Shariah Law is

Islamic system is not concerned if Mr A is ready to pray behind Imam'e Kabah or not. The system is concerned with economic, social & Political aspects of human lives. The excuse that in presence of different sects it's not possible to implement Islamic shariah is totally invalid.

the present democratic system has failed to bring forward honest God fearing leadership and has failed to implement Islamic laws. What we are interested in is the implementation of Islamic laws and this can be done in democracy also but if this system keeps failing than obviously people will look for other options.

btw, we should be aware of what our founding father Allama Iqbal has to say about democracy i.e it's a system where people are counted and not weighed.

 

[Khalid_sdt]

Please be my guest.

You are once again only proving my point. That Muslims are not united either in their interpretation of the Qur'an, nor of hadith, nor of history. So now with these facts infront of you, try to implement sharia.

that's a typical excuse from those who don't want the implementation of Islamic shariat. This will not work, why not point out where's the difference??????????

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Zaki. Though one can find incidences of disagreement even prior to Omar, lets not go there. In general, I agree with your last sentence. And without unity amongst 1.3 billion people (an impossibility regardless of their religion) there is no way to implement sharia.

And that then is the conclusion of the argument.

You keep making this statement without giving it much thought dont you?

There is absolutely no unity in Pakistan over almost anything... be it secularism, political party that is in power... yet we still have all these systems applied on us... Why dont you answer this instead of derailing the thread into a match of who is the bigger hoo haa here...

Tell me then... Absoultely no unity over whether Zardari should be our president or someone else... Yet we have Zardari... Even better... Majority of Muslims do not want to live in a system of Riba... but actually it is implemented against their wishes... Why do you think Muslims need a hundred percent consenses on Shariah to have it implemented... Your statement makes absolutely no sense...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

well Sahabas too had disagreements when the Prophet Muhammad PBUH were alive but no war took place between two Muslim groups before the death of Umar R.A

Yes there were a lot of disagreements but never two Muslim groups fought against each other neither had they disagreements on the way of practicing Islam.

Moral of the story we all know, Lets have Turkish like system of Governance until majority knows what Shariah Law is. At the moment not even 1% really know the true meaning of Shariah in Pakistan and also lets book a First class One-way ticket for Mullah's journey to Heaven and meet their students that they have sent in the hope of getting 72 hoor's.

Democracy until the majority can prove what Shariah Law is

I can understand the sentiment... But I disagree... Majority do not have to understand how government functions for a state to have a government... Its as simple as that...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I used to believe exactly like that, when I was a child.
But then one day i started reading history little more in-depth

and I came to know that the very first soldiers like Muhammad Bin Qasim was killed ruthlessly despite his service and Jihad in the name of Allah. I also learned that your teacher (Tariq bin Ziyaad's Master) Musa bin Naser spent later part of his life begging in the streets of Madina despite the fact he was one of the most powerful Generals of his era who conquered Africa and part of Europe in a very short span of time.

Besides the first 4 Caliphs and Umar ibn AbdulAziz most of the caliphs had some funny stories. Oh yes I am not counting Harun al-Rashid and other good caliphs I am pointing towards majority

We were actually hardly united as a single Unit... we always did have a lot of differences amongst our caliphs let alone the entire Muslim Ummah

Yes and that does not mean that we should not have a Caliphate... These things happened DESPITE Islam being a measure not BECAUSE of it... Caliphate is an obligation above all other obligations... The one who dies without having a pledge of allegiance on his neck to a Caliph dies the death of preislamic ignorance according to Hadith... The only thing that can protect us from that is making an effort to bring it about like a man who makes an effort to offer his prayers (does nt matter if he dies before actually praying or not as it will not be held against it)...

One can argue however that this is a Sunni school of thought and I would agree with that... However even Shias have worked for Caliphate... I know quite a few from Yemen, Iraq who have been invovled in this work... Infact the best known political group in Iraq after the Baathists was Hizb Ud Dawah (totally Shia) which was working to establish Caliphate in the region and was ruthlessly persecuted by Saddam Hussain...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Conclusion: Why impose a governance system in Top-Down approach like Talibans? A much better way is Bottom-Up. And why not impose Islam in daily life first before imposing it on a country?

We do work with the people Martian in a bottom up way as you mention... Part of my work here is classified as such... Also we do impose Islam in our daily life... Keeping the pillers and commandments etc...

As for attempting to grab power... Its Sunnah... The prophet saw approached 40 tribes and asked them for support to establish Islam... The two tribes of Ansar ultimately agreed and the rest is history...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Janab'e Mohtaram,

the question was, "where is Islam in Islamic republic of Pakistan", instead of answering specifically, it was chosen to drag in the Mullahs and the political system.

We Pakistanis normally don't have the passion to read books, otherwise , it is very clear that Mullahs did supported Pakistan movement. Let me give few big names:

a) Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi
b) Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani
c) Maulana Zafar Ahmad Usmani
d) Mufti Shafi Usmani.

if our Pakistani brothers don't know the role of these Scholars in Pakistan creation or their relationship with Mr. JInnah, they are themselves to blame.

Maulana Maududi's views were that he is not interested in a piece of land which will not be governed by Islamic Laws.

The Mullahs who opposed Pakistan movement had their own views regarding the situation and looking at the current mess and Pakistan not being governed by Islamic laws, they will always say that their viewpoint/vision was correct.

Oh YEAH... Pakistan is so special that we simply has to love it for that speciality... and that speciality is that we have a MR 110% as our President...

Our dear Jinnah must be turning in his grave!!!

and its all your fault... You the Mullahs... LOL

 

[Martian]

We do work with the people Martian in a bottom up way as you mention... Part of my work here is classified as such... Also we do impose Islam in our daily life... Keeping the pillers and commandments etc...

As for attempting to grab power... Its Sunnah... The prophet saw approached 40 tribes and asked them for support to establish Islam... The two tribes of Ansar ultimately agreed and the rest is history...

Makkah period of Prophets' life should be followed FIRST before trying to establish a government based on Islam. Prophet spent 53 years of his life before establishing a muslim society. Please dont ignore the importance of those 53 years before 10 years of Medina.

Anyway, establig an Islamic government is not an end. What an Islamic government do if individual lives are not compatible with it. See example of Iran where a theocracy was initially supported by mases but now it is despised. Islam is not one-dimensional, only concerned with mode of governance.

Can anybody tell, what is reaction of all these Islamists against inflation or sugar crisis? Are they following role Hazrat Usman played during his time? What individuals and organizations are doing to provide relief to people.

All thsese parties/organizations are using Islamic government and Sharia only as slogans. They want to take action only after siezing power and not before that.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Makkah period of Prophets' life should be followed FIRST before trying to establish a government based on Islam. Prophet spent 53 years of his life before establishing a muslim society. Please dont ignore the importance of those 53 years before 10 years of Medina.

Anyway, establig an Islamic government is not an end. What an Islamic government do if individual lives are not compatible with it. See example of Iran where a theocracy was initially supported by mases but now it is despised. Islam is not one-dimensional, only concerned with mode of governance.

Can anybody tell, what is reaction of all these Islamists against inflation or sugar crisis? Are they following role Hazrat Usman played during his time? What individuals and organizations are doing to provide relief to people.

All thsese parties/organizations are using Islamic government and Sharia only as slogans. They want to take action only after siezing power and not before that.

Political work and Charity work are two different things... As for the prophet saw 53 years... that is incorrect... It was 13 years work after prophethood which he recieved when he was 40 years old...

People are giving their very life for bringing back Khilafat... What more do you want from them?

Who killed Farhad Usmanov?

Also note... Two organizations involved in the work for Caliphate, Hizb ut Tahrir and Hizb Ud Dawah, both lost their leaders to the brutality and torture of Saddam Hussain...

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Please let me clarify one point.

People who are promoting democracy, believe that majority is Authority, right. Now, when the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) started preaching Islam; he and his followers were very few in number as compared to the non-muslims who were against him in Makkah.

According, to your democratic system, he was wrong. I am not Shia but for a moment just read the story of Hazrat Imam Hussain (R.A). He and his followers were less in number than those of Yazeed. Was he wrong??

If Islamic system that you are against is unclear, then this western democracy is worse. .

 

[Martian]

Political work and Charity work are two different things... As for the prophet saw 53 years... that is incorrect... It was 13 years work after prophethood which he recieved when he was 40 years old..

Prophethood does not has a timelimit as Muhammad (PBUH) was prophet by birth. You say that our prophet was doing nothing before 40? People trusted him by observing his life before prophethood. Do yoiu want to deny his role as Sadiq and Amin in Makkah before prophethood?

 

[Martian]

Also note... Two organizations involved in the work for Caliphate, Hizb ut Tahrir and Hizb Ud Dawah, both lost their leaders to the brutality and torture of Saddam Hussain...

In power politics this always happen. So nothing new. Muslim history is filled with such examples.

A short-cut to power grab will always give such results. A long-term slow approach is answer. First change masses then ask for power.

 

[Developereo]

The thing that scares people about sharia are images of people getting whipped, stoned, hands chopped off, etc.

Also, the hudood laws about four witnesses are crap.

The people advocating Islamic laws need to do a lot of public relations and explain to people how and why these medieval laws will not be enacted because, let's face it, there is a segment of Islamic thought that believes these laws to be valid.

Pakistanis will not accept these kinds of laws. I can guarantee you!

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The thing that scares people about sharia are images of people getting whipped, stoned, hands chopped off, etc.

Also, the hudood laws about four witnesses are crap.

The people advocating Islamic laws need to do a lot of public relations and explain to people how and why these medieval laws will not be enacted because, let's face it, there is a segment of Islamic thought that believes these laws to be valid.

Pakistanis will not accept these kinds of laws. I can guarantee you!

I agree with you about the fears that people have... This is what stops them from working for Islam also because it is unclear in their mind... You are also right about need to work on clarifying the reality... Work is being done in this regard... jzkAllah khair for the comment...

I would disagree with you on one thing where you say that Pakistanis wont accept these kind of laws... All sorts of stupid laws are applied on us as we speak... we dont see a massive protest against that... Average man hardly bothers what goes on in the affairs of government as he is only concerned with earning two square meals a day... I do not see any protests against a system based on the mercy of Prophethood...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

In power politics this always happen. So nothing new. Muslim history is filled with such examples.

A short-cut to power grab will always give such results. A long-term slow approach is answer. First change masses then ask for power.

You obviously did not read about Farhad Usmanov...

Its not power politics as you so cheaply describe it... Work for an Islamic State based in Islam's justice is the highest and most enlightened work that a man can do...

The two leaders did not die because they were taking short cuts... both had lived and talked about the work for Caliphate for over more than three decades before they were killed...