Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I have to go sleep...

If Tech is Shia then what he fails to realize that Pakistan is majority Sunni and to seek a system based in the Sunni texts is perfectly legitimate... We shall obviously accomodate all Muslims regardless if they are Jafari or Sunni...

Infact a respected Shia brother associated with us actually spoke directly to Khomeni and asked him to implement the Caliphate... Khomeni however had other plans i.e Walayat Ul Fiqh...

My comments about Mawviyah are well known on the forum... He was certainly nepotic and wrongly nominated Yazid as Caliph... I have written about it in other threads... that does not mean that we should abandon the Sunnah however...

The Shia have their twelve Imams... we disagree with them on some issues but in the wrong nomination of Yazid there is no disagreement...

 

[Hyde]

Please be my guest.

You are once again only proving my point. That Muslims are not united either in their interpretation of the Qur'an, nor of hadith, nor of history. So now with these facts infront of you, try to implement sharia.

That is also confirmed by the Hadeeth of Prophet but unfortunately you don't believe in all ahadees so I don't know if you will take it or not. Completely OK for me either way

In one of the Hadeeth Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W said that the Umar R.A. is the door of Fitnah or Guarding the door of Fitnah something like that. People didn't understand that and later on he explained by saying he is a door that will not let Fitnah passes through. But once it falls (meaning Umar R.A. are dead) the Fitnah will enter in Muslim world and that will never go away.

In another words, after Umar R.A. will die Muslims will never be united and will always fight amongst themselves. This is our destiny pre-written by God. Yes we can try to be humble to each other and bring each other closer but end of the day, there will be at least one group who will never agree and will always cause fitnah. If we Start reading the history, the day Umar R.A. died, we all know how tough time Usman R.A. had during his caliphate and later Ali R.A. had to fight with his own muslim brothers and the history continued repeating itself.

Basically we can't be united ever. Its my interpretation of Hadeeth so I might be wrong, I take no resonsibility of explaining this hadeeth in my own words

 

[Martian]

There are plethora of sects or sect-like organizations marketing their brands of Islam and Sharia. These politico-religious parties consider Islam in single dimensional framework (Khilafat, Hudood, Sharia, etc) like blind people who commented on shape of elephant after touching it. These parties want to impose Islamic governance system in a top-down way while ignoring the approach of our Prophet Muhammad. Our Prophet propagated among his people and prepared them for a change before establishing a Muslim society.

Why some people are obsessed with imposing Khilafah, Sharia on executive (government) level when they don’t see a need to impose it on their daily lives. Any system as good as people practicing it are. How imposing a legal/government system will achieve its objective if people under its jurisdiction are not prepared for it. For example, Democracy works well when people are educated and influence of feudals, elites, political dynasties is within a certain limit. Communism gave results in China because leadership was responsive to change while in Soviet Union it was rigid.

Therefore, all people/groups raising noises about Islam/Sharia are in fact only interested in power politics. Organizations who are sincere in this cause, should only focus in wellbeing of Muslims for at least 30 years. Such organizations should focus on their scientific education and economic prosperity. Their focus should be promotion of primary education and health in Muslim communities. Other methods to prepare ground for implementation of Sharia could be modern organization of Maddarissa schooling. To promote conformity between various sects could be removing individual authority to issue Fatwa with institutionalizing the process. A referral method as used in publishing of scientific papers could be used. Preparation of ground work is important before raising a super-strcuture.

Conclusion: Why impose a governance system in Top-Down approach like Talibans? A much better way is Bottom-Up. And why not impose Islam in daily life first before imposing it on a country?

 

[TechLahore]

Zaki. Though one can find incidences of disagreement even prior to Omar, lets not go there. In general, I agree with your last sentence. And without unity amongst 1.3 billion people (an impossibility regardless of their religion) there is no way to implement sharia.

And that then is the conclusion of the argument.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

Zaki bhai, in most part of our history we were united and u will never find 100% agreement within all the muslims since we dont have a Prophet between us
If 10 or 20 % didnot agree with the main stream doesnot matter

TARIQ

 

[Hyde]

Zaki. Though one can find incidence of disagreement even prior to Omar, leta not go there. In general, I agree with your last sentence. And without unity amongst 1.3 billion people (an impossibility regardless of their religion) there is no way to implement sharia.

And that then is the conclusion of the argument.

well Sahabas too had disagreements when the Prophet Muhammad PBUH were alive but no war took place between two Muslim groups before the death of Umar R.A

Yes there were a lot of disagreements but never two Muslim groups fought against each other neither had they disagreements on the way of practicing Islam.

Moral of the story we all know, Lets have Turkish like system of Governance until majority knows what Shariah Law is. At the moment not even 1% really know the true meaning of Shariah in Pakistan and also lets book a First class One-way ticket for Mullah's journey to Heaven and meet their students that they have sent in the hope of getting 72 hoor's.

Democracy until the majority can prove what Shariah Law is

 

[Hyde]

assalam alaikum

Zaki bhai, in most part of our history we were united and u will never find 100% agreement within all the muslims since we dont have a Prophet between us
If 10 or 20 % didnot agree with the main stream doesnot matter

TARIQ

I used to believe exactly like that, when I was a child.
But then one day i started reading history little more in-depth

and I came to know that the very first soldiers like Muhammad Bin Qasim was killed ruthlessly despite his service and Jihad in the name of Allah. I also learned that your teacher (Tariq bin Ziyaad's Master) Musa bin Naser spent later part of his life begging in the streets of Madina despite the fact he was one of the most powerful Generals of his era who conquered Africa and part of Europe in a very short span of time.

Besides the first 4 Caliphs and Umar ibn AbdulAziz most of the caliphs had some funny stories. Oh yes I am not counting Harun al-Rashid and other good caliphs I am pointing towards majority

We were actually hardly united as a single Unit... we always did have a lot of differences amongst our caliphs let alone the entire Muslim Ummah

 

[TechLahore]

Moral of the story we all know, Lets have Turkish like system of Governance

Agreed. That's the only way. It will actually diminish differences between muslims.

lets book a First class One-way ticket for Mullah's journey to Heaven and meet their students that they have sent in the hope of getting 72 hoor's.

Can't wait for this to happen!

 

[Xestan]

The question of which version of Shariah'ah law will be implemented in Pakistan arose many times, it has a very simple answer, like in early 80s I guess, the alliance of all the sects in Pakistan gave 22 points on which they had full consensus and Shariah could be implemented on that bases.. But later on, no concern was raised for that and pure Islamic movement wa hijacked by jaahil mullahs, I hardly see any sensible scholar today.

The point is, we have a federal Shariat court, we have Millli Yakjahti Council, if all the sects can sit and decide a formal code of conduct which will have full support from all the sects, then what's the problem?

Problem lies in the religious political parties and our Parliament.

Khilafat will come Insh'ALLAH according to what has been told in Hadith, you cannot resist it, it's obligatory on every Muslim to implement the rule of ALLAH on the land, Islam is not just about Namaz, roza, Zakat and Hajj..

Anyways, If all the sects can agree on some points and I'm sure it can happen, then will there be any problem?

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

Bhai meray yeh kis nay bola k individual bases per zulm nahi hoga or shortcoming nahi hoon gi. We also read history but overall we were ruled by a center. We r not angles we will make mistakes. And nobody said there won't be ups and downs

TARIQ

 

[Xestan]

I'll Insh'ALLAH try to get some proofs on the consensus of all the sects in Pakistan to implement Sharia'ah law. Will Insh'ALLAH present to the brothers if this thread will continue for some more time..

I'm sure I heard Dr. Israr Ahmad once saying that there is consensus on this issue, will get some evidence too Insh'ALLAH.

btw, TechLahore, you deleted my last post and even warned me, for what? That video was relevant, it explained the Khilafat model, how can it be implemented in today's era.

 

[TechLahore]

btw, TechLahore, you deleted my last post and even warned me, for what? That video was relevant, it explained the Khilafat model, how can it be implemented in today's era.

Bring up such issues in PM. You keep posting videos rather than participating in the discussion. Two moderators have deleted videos in this thread alone. We can all listen to Israr Ahmed on youtube. This discussion is not about people posting videos, but rather making arguments using their head.

 

[Hyde]

I'll Insh'ALLAH try to get some proofs on the consensus of all the sects in Pakistan to implement Sharia'ah law. Will Insh'ALLAH present to the brothers if this thread will continue for some more time..

Bro you can't,

There is a group of Muslims who refuse to pray behind the Imam of Ka'ba (Haram Shareef). See as per that group he is Bid'ati so the prayer won't stand valid if they pray behind him so they pray separately.

I think that is a peak of disagreements amongst Muslims where all the Muslim world try to be so humble and calm in the city of Makkah, one group stands and even there they refuse to pray behind another Muslim.

We live in Pakistan, the differences will be widen so much that the consensus is never possible. Baat wohi Hadees wali hai ke hum Musalman kabhi ikathay nahi rah sakte - jo marzi kar lo

koi na koi group zaror ikhtilaaf karay ga

 

[Ticking Bomb]

Bring up such issues in PM. You keep posting videos rather than participating in the discussion. Two moderators have deleted videos in this thread alone. We can all listen to Israr Ahmed on youtube. This discussion is not about people posting videos, but rather making arguments using their head.

What if some one is not Technically as brainy as u r, and need assitance to futher its message through a video clip, whats the harm in it, unless you dont want the truth to come out.

 

[Khalid_sdt]

What process did the founders and supporters of Pakistan utilize and support in leading the charge for the creation of Pakistan?

Did Mohammed Ali Jinnah not lead a political party, and an alliance of other political parties that supported the call for Pakistan, and participate in elections to determine the 'will of the people'?

Did Mohammed Ali Jinnah not continue the democratic process in Pakistan after its creation?

Were the Mullah Brigade and 'self proclaimed flag bearers of Islam' in fact not the ones opposing the demand for Pakistan through 1947?

And finally, if not democracy, what system of government would you have in Pakistan?

And please provide the details on how this system is to run, because without specifics the call for 'Islam instead of democracy in Pakistan' is a pointless rant.

Janab'e Mohtaram,

the question was, "where is Islam in Islamic republic of Pakistan", instead of answering specifically, it was chosen to drag in the Mullahs and the political system.

We Pakistanis normally don't have the passion to read books, otherwise , it is very clear that Mullahs did supported Pakistan movement. Let me give few big names:

a) Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi
b) Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani
c) Maulana Zafar Ahmad Usmani
d) Mufti Shafi Usmani.

if our Pakistani brothers don't know the role of these Scholars in Pakistan creation or their relationship with Mr. JInnah, they are themselves to blame.

Maulana Maududi's views were that he is not interested in a piece of land which will not be governed by Islamic Laws.

The Mullahs who opposed Pakistan movement had their own views regarding the situation and looking at the current mess and Pakistan not being governed by Islamic laws, they will always say that their viewpoint/vision was correct.