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When would Bombs stop exploding?

Sir, please take a look here for the answers you ask above, as an example:

US policies responsible for regional instability, says Sartaj Aziz | Page 2

Can you believe this, I can't..... | Page 4

The "my way or the highway" syndrome is the death of civilized society. Just look at how PDF deals with dissenting views as another example, with vilification in extremis as a typical response.

Enough said, for Agrabah, of course. :D
I didnt do justice to the posts from yourself and Daneshmund earlier
I am just exhausted feeling like a broken record.

that said, I think, a significant number among us know the cause that ails us but are unable to do anything about it specially when the loudest puritans among us become projected as majority. being Muslims doesnt make us immune to the nature of thoughtless following.

by the way, has this modern technology in communication made us more illiterate, stubborn and averse to counter narrative? if someone is brought back from the past then he might chide us that despite having the knowledge and means to use the technology to find the "truth" and all its versions... we fared no better than people of previous centuries

the process of natural selection is universal and free from bounds of time our mentality is not sustainable and our demise will be very unceremonious , daesh I agree, is a result or symptom of our own selves and will feed on the hosts (us) until the due course of time doesnt even leave our traces.. since we have a deadly cock-tale or combination of modern technology coupled with a genocidal ideology put into action with the help of black gold.

what should Turkey do differently than what we have become where chopping off hand and presenting it on a plate is considered heroic? some responses from respected Turks suggest that there is no issue, no mistake in them and they are way too awesome to face off anything much better than what Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iraq faced.

I pray they are correct.
 
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@Daneshmand @Syed.Ali.Haider
for some reason Reza Aslan's name keeps popping up in the mind.
hurd him recently
he says beliefs themselves are not an issue much its only when some of the extreme views are put into action

example Saudi beliefs and Daesh beliefs of Islam are the same. its only that Daesh has put them into action.
he further says, religion is not God.. but a path to God. and faith is something very personal.

back on topic, does blaming neighbours and west solve the problem? (symptoms that are hurting us all?). no they don't.
what are the causes? the the puritan crusade by some people within the country and (the bigger brotherhood). my way or the highway.

Reza Aslan is a good scholar. He has done alot to preserve what little honor and good image Muslims are left with, in the world. Unfortunately it is the beliefs themselves that are the issue here, not the extent of action on them. The belief that causes and rather even bullies a fifteen year old to self mutilate himself is not right even it has caused harm to no other but its own believer.

Some of the greatest Ulemas of Islam gathered in Al-Azhar university and after long deliberations could not find what was wrong with Isis. Since everything Isis does is according to the letter of Islam. We of course get shocked by its doings because we have become so accustomed to see the world through lofty Western ideals.

Muslim lands are in dark ages. Their renaissance, (even if we can call and hope for such) has not yet arrived. The ignorance is deep and multi-layered. Such simplistic notions such as if we do this or that or if we implement certain kind of dictatorship or that ideology in governance, will not bring light to these lands. Not at all. History has to take its course. The MAXIMUM thing we can do and can be done with extreme effort is to suspend or at least mute the Takfir component of Islam. Some way has to be found for Islam to respect humanity and the sanctity of human life. I repeat again, this is the MAXIMUM, you can do in this century, with extreme efforts.

And even if you succeed in that, the misery in Muslim lands will not end. Muslims will continue to suffer regardless. Tell me this, which is claiming more number of lives in Pakistan, Takfiri terrorism or tuberculosis? Takfiri terrorism or falciparum malaria? In 21st century you are losing more people to diseases that have long been eradicated in West and most of the east. Did you know that no Muslim nation can manufacture anti-TB medicines? As a TB afflicted country how much TB research is being done in Pakistan? And these are just examples of a Muslim country that has a solid science and technology base, armed with nuclear weapons. In many other Muslim lands, situation is even worse. Let's not kid ourselves.

Even before puritan crusades, Muslims were a bunch of ignorant suffering at their own hands. In fact, if you want to know the truth, well, then the truth is, Muslims have always been happy living under corrupt rulers as long as those rulers accepted the right of these people to remain "religious" but ignorant. You take the fake romanticism out of Islamic history and all you will see is filth. From Ummayad Caliphate to Ottoman Caliphate.

But all this, does not mean the history will pause. Certainly not. The history has to move on. After all resources are limited on planet earth. There will always be fight over them. Wars will be fought. War masters will emerge. Puppets will be brought in. Savages will be employed. Those of sane and strategic thinking will try to claim their share in this, not for their own sake. But for the sake of their future generations. The current ignorant generations are hopeless and their utility if properly utilized will just be to carve out a physical future for their future generations to come. Maybe in next centuries, Islam will also give birth to enlightenment like Christianity gave.

My advice? just make sure your country see the light of the day when and if enlightenment happens, and that you have have left some resources behind for those generations that are to follow you. It won't be easy. You will have to fight the war today. Just like in dark ages wars were fought which still affect the history of Europeans today. For instance, Iran can not allow itself or its allies to be dominated and even destroyed by Takfiris. Iran will have to continue to defend its own culture, history, geography and unity.

Even if Iran is not the epitome of enlightenment today, this does not mean Iran should not secure itself against the American concocted strategic plans to turn every God damn people out there to puppets in American employment. Iran's "evil" empire must survive not for people today. But for people yet not born. Otherwise when and if they are born, they won't be called Iranians. They will be something else, slaves, takfiris, who knows.

The stakes are too great. Any nation that does not want its fate to be decided by master lord, has to take matters into its very own hands. It will have to act bravely and independently. For its own sake. Chinese are doing just that. Russians have been doing it since centuries ago.
 
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Only if it was the case with Islam. (Un)fortunately Islam comes loaded with claims to every aspect of life including the political life. You can not extricate Islam from political life without reinterpreting Islam. For the past 1400 years, Muslims have been sincere and literal believers that once true Islam is implemented politically, then paradisaical life would begin on earth.
I, too have been a believer that both are not mutually exclusive and dont necessarily negate each other.
but time and again I am shown events contrary to such wishful thinking
 
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961 foreign ISIL members from 57 countries caught in Turkey in 2015 - LOCAL

China tops list of foreign fighters
According to the list announced in December, China tops the list with 324 citizens caught in Turkey fighting for ISIL. Russia comes second as 99 foreign fighters withRussian passports were caught in Turkey, while the Palestinians made up the third country in the list with 83 fighters. There were also 63 fighters from Turkmenistan, 57 from Afghanistan, and 44 from Indonesia.
 
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Only if it was the case with Islam. (Un)fortunately Islam comes loaded with claims to every aspect of life including the political life. You can not extricate Islam from political life without reinterpreting Islam. For the past 1400 years, Muslims have been sincere and literal believers that once true Islam is implemented politically, then paradisaical life would begin on earth.

A billion and a half or so believe in this as a matter of life and death. And you are telling me here that once religion is "kept away from matters of state" then it will be alright. How so? And how are we to keep such a religion away from state? I guess bayonets and guns will have to be implemented to keep Islam away from state. Now wouldn't that be an irony with regard to topic of this thread?

A certain Muslim country created under the European interpretation of nationalism of the time, with a relatively modern population and a relatively longer secular tradition in its governance, is slowly drifting towards Islamization of its state policies, not much dissimilar to Islamization of Pakistan. After about 100 years of secular rule, first the foreign policy was Islamized and now a certain flavor of Islamization is creeping into this country, slowly. After all, there are people who really believe in Islam's role to dominate politics. One way or the other. You can not disregard them. Neither you can depend on their degree to which their wish shall go in this regard.

I, too have been a believer that both are not mutually exclusive and dont necessarily negate each other.
but time and again I am shown events contrary to such wishful thinking

I am a believer too, but it is perfectly logical for me to accept that it is my personal belief only that Islam represents a complete code of life for me without giving me the right, authority or obligation to enforce it upon others by any means necessary to the exclusion of all else.

As has been alluded to above, let me just state it bluntly: Either Islam will reinterpret itself, or it will self-annihilate. There is no third choice available.

what should Turkey do differently than what we have become where chopping off hand and presenting it on a plate is considered heroic? some responses from respected Turks suggest that there is no issue, no mistake in them and they are way too awesome to face off anything much better than what Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iraq faced.

I pray they are correct.

Evidence suggest that the citizens of Agrabah are unlikely to follow a course to salvation, only to self-destruction. :D
 
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Either Islam will reinterpret itself ....

It is the work of centuries, as said above. The enormous work needed to create a theological basis for such tasks should not be underestimated. Right now, the Ulema even have failed to put forward a coherent and technically sound theological framework in order to just mute Takfir portion of Islamic fiqh. Something that is the need of the day. Forget about the rest.
 
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It is the work of centuries, as said above. The enormous work needed to create a theological basis for such tasks should not be underestimated. Right now, the Ulema even have failed to put forward a coherent and technically sound theological framework in order to just mute Takfir portion of Islamic fiqh. Something that is the need of the day. Forget about the rest.

I am resigned to the fact that nothing positive will change for Islam at least in my lifetime on Earth.
 
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