What's new

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

For those like @Hassan Al-Somal claim that they have no opinion whether the Holocaust occured, while at the same time show extremism hatred against Jews.

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?



Contrary to popular belief this has nothing to do with Nazi records. There is this “half-myth” that floats around that the Nazis were great record keepers and thanks to these records we can accurately identify the number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is inaccurate.

main-qimg-f0908b348149a1c2a64917c42923f7b1-lq

To be clear the Nazis were great record keepers when they wanted to be. When it came to government administration, military accounting, and economic output the Nazis kept fantastic records. Moreover, many Nazi Generals survived the war and wrote extensively about their experiences before and during the war.

When it comes to the Holocaust we do have source documents that prove a lot and these documents are beyond valuable. They are exceedingly rare though and there isn’t a master list or anything like that. There is a good reason for this though.

As WW2 got going Hitler personally ordered the extermination of disabled persons in the infamous “Aktion T4”. This included a signed order from Hitler to identify, round up, and exterminate all disabled persons. There was an immediate response from the German people and the international community. So Hitler publically backtraced and canceled the order while continuing the extermination in secret. Protesting families were told that their loved ones were being transported to hospitals when really they were killed in the very vans that were supposed to take them there (the Nazis used gas vans as well as gas chambers).

main-qimg-51910da9af60564336c25b26b65afe75-lq


Hitler was thus never going to sign an order to kill all the Jews nor would anyone else. The entire SS high command was very hush-hush about the whole thing. They used code words, destroyed documents, bug up mass graves to burn the bodies, and very secretly went about their evil work.

There was never a list of all the Jews the Nazis killed. There were not even lists for individual concentration camps. In rare instances, we have records that show how many death certificates were sent out by the Nazis or how many inmates in a camp had died but these records are incomplete. At Auschwitz for instance there is a book that records some 70,000 who had died in the camp but this list excludes the 900,000 who were killed in the gas chambers upon arrival and the other 120,000 that died in the death marches or from various acts of brutality.


So where do we get “6 million” from and when did we identify that number?

So to answer the question the first estimate of “6 million” came about in 1945. A top SS official named Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl stated under oath that Adolf Eichmann had reported 6 million Jews killed. This was the first estimate we really had and it was based just upon a single confession.

main-qimg-a788b9a541d9d661fd69d5126c2aecb9-pjlq

Past that we have to turn to data to find the answer. Prior to WW2 various nations and groups collected census data as we do today. A few examples include

  1. The Jewish Almanac in 1938
  2. The German Minority Census of 1939
  3. The Polish census of 1939
  4. Census data from the USSR from 1933–1940
Thanks to this data we have some idea of how many Jewish were alive in 1939 both globally and in Europe. Roughly speaking there were about 9 to 9.5 million Jewish in Europe and 15.5 to 15.8 million globally.

main-qimg-ecd04ea8cb7677dede96249b3dc6c326

main-qimg-d82ad6559ce64bd2f957b90fd02b6e85

We then know that by the time the war ended there were only about 3.5 million Jews left in Europe and somewhere around 9 million left globally.


So we have a disparity here of about 6 million. The question is how many of these people died in the Holocaust and how many died from other causes? You have to factor in death rates, birth rates, and the effect WW2 had on those statistics.

This is why figures vary because it depends on how you factor in death rates, birth rates, and what census data you use. Some historians peg the number at 5.2 million others say it could be as high as 6.2 million. Sadly we won’t ever know.

When it comes to totaling up how many were killed at the various camps we are also having to infer a bit.

Take Treblinka, an extermination camp I studied extensively. Thanks to a report from Chief SS Statistician Richard Korherr and another Telegram from top SS Offical Herman Hofle we know 713,000 Jews had perished at Treblinka by the end of 1942. The two documents had identical statistics showing that there was data being collected and kept ultra-classified. This data was related to “Operation Reinhard” which was the operation of the extermination camps and the liquidation of many Ghettos in Eastern Europe.

main-qimg-b02a366b420ec4cb0841536d197126fa-lq



The problem is that Treblinka operated into 1943 too and no records exist from this year. This is where train station controller Franciszek Ząbecki comes into the picture. This guy ran a train station right by Treblinka and noticed that trains arrived full of Jews and departed empty. He figured out what was going on, joined the Polish Resistance, and started painstakingly recording every train arrival for posterity. He also smuggled out many “way bills” that show how many were on each train. Thanks to him we can estimate how many trains arrived in 1942 and 1943. We can then do some basic math to find out how many Jews on average were on each train and come to a total estimate of 800,000ish.

Why “ish”? Well because we cannot verify exactly how many people were on each train. In 1943 Treblinka slowed considerably and while we have some “way-bills” that confirm numbers it’s hard to take these at face value. So the best estimate is 850,000 give or take. We are 100% more than 712,000 were killed there but we cannot give an exact number. Franciszek Ząbecki for his part did his own calculations based on what he saw and recorded and estimated the total at over 1 million- and he could be right.

So obviously it’s all rather complex and it took lots of serious study and research to accurately identify the number of victims. However, the numbers we do have are 100% accurate and based on mountains of evidence.

  • We have confession from top SS officials, top Nazi officials, camp commandants, camp guards, Gestapo members, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squad) members, and even just low ranking SS guys
  • We have eye witness testimony from hundreds of thousands of people. Many were Sonderkommandos, which were Jews forced to work in the gas chambers. Others are Polish, Soviet, Greek, German, French, and Romani camp survivors. Some witnesses were even people who managed to escape the death camps during the revolts there.
  • Census data is beyond reproach considering we have multiple sources that are all relatively close in their estimates. There is variance but we are talking about a few percentage points. Both the Nazis and Jews showed there were 9 million Jews in Europe and after the war every census ever done (and there have been hundreds) all showed that the global Jewish population shrank around 6 million
  • We have some scattered documents that fill in the blanks. For instance the mobile killing squads neatly recorded every single massacre and sent these reports into Berlin for SS leaders to see. We have hundreds of these reports.
So the crux of the estimates is the census data. That gives us a ballpark. To back up the census data we have a few confessions but very little here because if there was a “master list” for all the Jews killed, it was destroyed. So with a ball park number in mind we turn to various witnesses, confessions, and a few crucial source documents to fill in the blanks.

Based on my studies here is where the poor souls who were murdered in the Holocaust died. These are just my estimates based on my studies and certainly this is not the end all be all of estimates- but it paints a picture.

main-qimg-f751987e94a25990b4821143ec967945-lq
 
.
.
For most of history the hatred shown to the Jews was by the Europeans, they butchered millions, so I dont buy into conspiracy that there was not a holocaust or a very high number of people were not killed. The resulting tradegy of this is the victims/their descendants became the oppressors in Palestine.
 
.
same time show extremism hatred against Jews.
White people gased White jews. We people of color have nothing to do with it and we don't care about them. If you love these trouble makers so much now, take them in your country instead of dumping those trash on middle east.

Take them in they're white so they will integrate well...
 
. .
White people gased White jews. We people of color have nothing to do with it and we don't care about them. If you love these trouble makers so much now, take them in your country instead of dumping those trash on middle east.

Take them in they're white so they will integrate well...
Should Europe use your comments as a plan for handling all the ”people of colour” that you have ”dumped” on Europe?
Or should we dismiss the as the ramblings of a racist culture?
 
.
.
not my word a jew in USA said that if there is a complain go make it against him

In a video posted online, Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi can be seen saying that high assimilation rates in pre-war Europe and broad Nazi definitions have exaggerated the numbers of Jews recorded as killed by the Nazis during the Holocaust. At least five million of the six million were “total goyim,” Mizrachi told the crowd, adopting a Hebrew word for non-Jews that many consider pejorative.
“If your grandfather from your father’s side was Jewish, and the rest were non-Jews, [you went] to the gas chambers. They also put in the wives of Jews that were entirely non Jewish. If she hid him, or they were hidden by non-Jews, if they caught them, they killed them also,” he said in an apparent reference to the Nazis’ definition of Jewishness, which sufficed with a single Jewish grandparent.


you knew western people problem is they most quantify anything , for them if the number was 600,000 it was less bad than if it was 1,000,000 or 6,000,000 or 12,000,000 million . instead of looking at the act people debating on the number that is borderline hilarious.

Notes on Documentation​

No single wartime document


There is no single wartime document that contains the above cited estimates of Jewish deaths.


There are three obvious and interrelated reasons for the lack of a single document:


  1. Compilation of comprehensive statistics of Jews killed by German and other Axis authorities began in 1942 and 1943. It broke down during the last year and a half of the war.
  2. Beginning in 1943, as it became clear that they would lose the war, the Germans and their Axis partners destroyed much of the existing documentation. They also destroyed physical evidence of mass murder.
  3. No personnel were available or inclined to count Jewish deaths until the very end of World War II and the Nazi regime. Hence, total estimates are calculated only after the end of the war and are based on demographic loss data and the documents of the perpetrators. Though fragmentary, these sources provide essential figures from which to make calculations.

Only one comprehensive statistical study conducted on behalf of SS chief Heinrich Himmler survived the war. A copy was among the records captured by the US Army in 1945. Likewise, several regional compilations of such gruesome data were among the records captured by US, British, and Soviet forces after World War II. The United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union have used most of these documents at one time or another as exhibits in criminal or civil proceedings against Nazi offenders.


Polish and Soviet civilian figures


With regard to the Polish and Soviet civilian figures, at this time there are not sufficient demographic tools to enable historians to distinguish between:


  1. racially targeted individuals
  2. persons actually or believed to be active in underground resistance
  3. persons killed in reprisal for some actual or perceived resistance activity carried out by someone else
  4. losses due to so-called collateral damage in actual military operations

Virtually all deaths of Soviet, Polish, and Serb civilians during the course of military and anti-partisan operations had, however, a racist component. German units conducted those operations with an ideologically driven and willful disregard for civilian life.


you see at the end of article they also say
Counting victims is important for research and to understand the magnitude of the crimes.
they also think the magnitude of the crime has anything to do with the number of people killed
 
Last edited:
. . .
White people gased White jews. We people of color have nothing to do with it and we don't care about them. If you love these trouble makers so much now, take them in your country instead of dumping those trash on middle east.

Take them in they're white so they will integrate well...


exactly White Europeans killed 6 million Jews their problem

dont make it our problem

its called guilty conscious, they have a guilty conscious so are always looking to blame someone

Whites enslaved 40 millón Black Africans to build USA

now they say to China that China has bad human rights towards Africa

Europeans killed 65 million native Americans by giving them dirty diseases from Europe because whites would only wash 1 time per year

then they say China gave COVID to the World

hypocrites

Here we go again with the "white people" stuff again....

"You Europeans"....

"You white people"

So much racism!

but your Greek and your not white

please sit down
 
. .
For most of history the hatred shown to the Jews was by the Europeans, they butchered millions, so I dont buy into conspiracy that there was not a holocaust or a very high number of people were not killed. The resulting tradegy of this is the victims/their descendants became the oppressors in Palestine.
mufti.jpeg
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a "Palestinian" (He never identified that way because it wasn't a nationality) was the one that convinced Hitler to not proceed with the Haavara agreement (which was meant to transfer the Jews of Germany to Israel) and influenced him towards the final solution against the Jews.

Add more fuel to the fire, the Arabs tried to wipe out the a bunch of holocaust survivors 3 years after the end of the holocaust and now they cry we conquered them as a result.
 
.
I think the first ones to reach concentration camps were Russians and they claimed the number is widely exaggerated, it doesn't absolve Hitler from all the atrocities he committed , Jews weren't the only one who suffered . Btw Hitler claimed he learned about concentration camps from British from ww1
 
.
I think the first ones to reach concentration camps were Russians and they claimed the number is widely exaggerated, it doesn't absolve Hitler from all the atrocities he committed , Jews weren't the only one who suffered . Btw Hitler claimed he learned about concentration camps from British from ww1
They never said that lol. And they got to experience first hand and even commit 1.5 million murders by themselves when the Germans conquered Ukraine and killed its Jews in mass graves. And by the time the Russians started pushing on the Germans, most of the 6 million were already killed.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom