What will a secular pakistan look like?

[Hyperion]

We've just started debating all this openly @ family.......... in time my friend......... in time......... growing pains...............

Is this something any senior elected official has ever even opened a debate on? No. In the backdrop of the sectarian fighting within Pakistan as we speak this thread is sheer folly.

 

[Progressive1]

There are very few factors unifying Pakistan today and Islam is one of them. Turn Pakistan into a secular nation and the whole logic for it being a separate entity from India evaporates and from there the road to Pakistan disintegrating would be swift IMHO.

I find this whole thread pointless to be honest, is there a significant call within Pakistn from the people to turn Pakistan into a secular state? No. Is this something any senior elected official has ever even opened a debate on? No. In the backdrop of the sectarian fighting within Pakistan as we speak this thread is sheer folly.

to put it in simple words; Pakistan will do now which is required now this has nothing to do with past.
Btw I can provide many other reasons than religion like to separate pure land of Indus from Gangia.

 

[qamar1990]

lets discuss what a Secular pakistan might actually look like…
will we truly be secular?
will we be able tolerate a non-muslim or anybody for a matter fact saying something bad about islam or against islam?

 

[Kompromat]

lets discuss what a Secular pakistan might actually look like…
will we truly be secular?
will we be able tolerate a non-muslim or anybody for a matter fact saying something bad about islam or against islam?

In current climate such a change would require a referendum which would be knocked down by a gigantic majority. No new structure can work in Pakistan till the citizenry is ready and willing to absorb it. What we need FIRST is a social change before the system can change.

 

[greatone]

to put it in simple words; Pakistan will do now which is required now this has nothing to do with past.
Btw I can provide many other reasons than religion like to separate pure land of Indus from Gangia.

Please indulge me.
As far as I know, people of the sub-continent have always lived together
Religions come and go, civilizations stay.

 

[qamar1990]

To be able to speak against injustice without fearing the bigger fish. unfortunately what we see today is noting but hate speech.

well that is exactly my definition of freedom of speech in this case we are the bigger fish and the non-muslims and and atheists are the ones being persecuted. don't you think?

 

[Metanoia]

Let's analyze the demographics of Pakistan first...shall we....then we will decide on the system of governance.

1) Multiple ethnicities (= Multiple cultures and multiple traditions)

2) Multiple languages(national language being Urdu and English)

3) Multiple political ideologies

4) Multiple religious sects

5) Multiple tribes and inherent caste system

6) Multiple social classes(based on monetary income)

-----So this is a general outlook which probably every Pakistani knows and understands fully. But here is the catch....what is the Pakistani identity?

Answer: Not Religion---If Religion was the Pakistani identity than we would still have Bangladesh......Religion as a uniting factor and a national identity has completely and utterly failed everywhere in the world including Pakistan. Which interpretation of political Islam or shariah would the nation apply unto itself? hanafi? barelvi? shia? madaudism? wahabism? Man I am gonna get tired just by mentioning all of them...and do not forget we have a good amount of non-muslims too amongst our borders.

Simple definition of Secularism is the freedom of religion from the politics/state. It is nothing more than that....contrary to popular belief that Secularism promotes hedonism...drinking...gambling...prostitution etc. are all lies spread by the religious right and mullah folks.

Fact of the matter is Pakistan is a fractured society today and it needs Pakistani nationalism under one rule of law and one constitution. It needs a grass root democracy which will provide every sector of the society with a platform.

Pakistanis First....Pakistan First.....

Look at the example of other multicultural and diverse countries such as ours.....and learn from them...that how they prosper while we continue to hit the lowest of the low......let's think pragmatically yeah?

 

[qamar1990]

In current climate such a change would require a referendum which would be knocked down by a gigantic majority. No new structure can work in Pakistan till the citizenry is ready and willing to absorb it. What we need FIRST is a social change before the system can change.

im not sure if you follow you…
what kind of social change? do you think we should wait it out or something and hope for the best? how long will that take?

 

[A.Rafay]

lets discuss what a Secular pakistan might actually look like…
will we truly be secular?
will we be able tolerate a non-muslim or anybody for a matter fact saying something bad about islam or against islam?

The BIG QUESTION Under secular Pakistan: Will we allow a non-muslim to be "head of state" or "Chief Justice" Or "President"?

 

[Kompromat]

im not sure if you follow you…
what kind of social change? do you think we should wait it out or something and hope for the best? how long will that take?

Work and wait, give democracy time, develop institutions, make them strong and sovereign. When this happens, it will kick start a social change when people are confident that their state is capable of delivering services and justice. People would only buy govt's new narrative if they have faith in their political structure. The first goal to start a social change should be to strengthen and support democracy and campaign for transparency.

 

[rockstar08]

who are better off? the muslims in india who chose to to stay with india?
or the muslims in pakistan?
we had to get a separate homeland because we would have been a minority, by us being a separate country weather secular or not we can decide our fate not hindus. pakistan was created so we have security for us muslims, it wasn't seated so we can live under sharia.
i have no problem with either form but i prefer secular because it will garuntee the rights of every citizen.


how about now? lol
i was trying to do something but i changed my mind lol.


ok, what about our non-muslims citizens? and what about the atheists and agnostic pakistanis like @Imran Khan , @FaujHistorian @Azlan Haider
they are always complaining about the current state of our country and how it is, how can we address their concerns?

@Aeronaut @Jungibaaz is there any way to change the poll to show who voted for what?

i didnt say anything about Shariah , and as far as indian muslims are concern they are living better from in some aspects , btu they dont have religious freedom and we have over religious free peoples ...
Quaid-e-Azam created pakistan to give muslims of India a land where they will live freely with their religious beliefs, post 1947 , we have different issues, and all the fight you are experiencing these days are just a fake cloud.. nothing more to say , those talibans who are fighting for shariah are liars and have nothing to do with islam... this country can never be a complete secular nor a islamic state .. mark my words on that

 

[Abingdonboy]

We've just started debating all this openly @ family.......... in time my friend......... in time......... growing pains...............

Must make for an interesting debate at the dinner table, personally I am of the opinion that I won't see a secular Pakistan in my lifetime (and I'm not a particularly old man), but this is my personal belief, let's see how things go. There is surely much space for things to change in Pakistan and the current situation is clearly unacceptable for minorities, I suspect Pakistan will have to come up with a "Pakistanese" style of secularism and perhaps not the kind of secularism found in the West.

 

[rockstar08]

You can still have a secular Govt which can safeguard the interests of all Muslims - where Shia, Sunni, Ahmadiya and even Bahaii feel safe to practice their faith. Turkey is a model worthy of emulation in this regard.

agreed but i have a question , when the founder created this country , do you think he have this " firqa" issues in his mind ? last time i read history i read that Quaid-e-Azam made Pakistan for muslims.. to live with peace.. and rest minorities who come under the islamic govt are their subjects, this is what original shariah teach us .. this is what ISLAM teach us .. to take care of everyone regardless of their religion and ethnic .. but talibans start shouting , we have the best shariah in this world and done some worse stuff. and peoples actually believe that this is what shariah is !!!!!

 

[qamar1990]

The BIG QUESTION Under secular Pakistan: Will we allow a non-muslim to be "head of state" or "Chief Justice" Or "President"?

thats not happening in our life time i can tell you that my friend, because pakistan is a democracy and 97 percent of population is muslim.
but under secular pakistan yes we would have to allow a person RUN for office.

 

[rockstar08]

Read history bhai.

MMP (Muslim Majority Provinces) were going to be chopped off and kicked out by NMP (NonMuslim Majority Provinces). And Hindu leaders wanted it.

Read bhai Read!

MMPs because West Pakistan, E. Pakistan in `1947

So this was the fate of the region, and very little choice was left for Muslims. Once the Hindu majority decided to go that route, Muslim minority had no choice but to accept whatever we got.


Now it is our job to make our country an inclusive society that respects and cherishes all of its members.

Secularism vs. Islamis debate is pathetic.

The real question is: Should Pakistan be inclusive of all groups or not.


Hope you understand.

its not about read.. i think you read american version of PAkistani history sir ..
this country was created on the name of islam , muslim were dying to create a separate country where we can live with our religious freedom, and what lead us to this ? hindus of india and traitors Britishers.. according to majority minority rule , things must be divided but that didnt happened completely right ?