What role could PAF have played in the Kargil war??

[M.SAAD]

Since PAF was not involved in the Kargil war, and that put our soldiers in very grave danger since they didn't have the Airsupport and IAF was bombing our solider's positions with BVR missiles and causing heavy casualties.



So, in a hypothetical scenario if PAF was actually involved in that war (and taken into confidence during the planning/execution stages and assigned a role), what role could they have played?? Could they have provided the Pak soliders with solid air cover or not? I doubt they could have engaged themselves in air to air combat with IAF planes (which remember were BVR enabled) and PAF planes was not. But still limiting the PAF role to basically nothing and letting them see our positions getting bombed was a suicide move . They should've been assigned some role in that war.



So what role the PAF could have played considering the fact that they lacked the BVR technology ?? was IAF having the BVR tech. the deciding factor in PAF not getting involved or what?



Also could PAF having the BVR tech. have changed the fate of that war??

 

[Stephen Cohen]

PAF stayed out because they knew that if PAF got involved the conflict would
simply escalate and NONE of the Pakistani armed forces ie Army ; Navy and AIr force
wanted an all out war

And more over the IAF 's superiority in BVR arena -- during the Kargil conflict is well known

IAF Mig 29s had locked on to F 16 s forcing them to turn away

https://in.rbth.com/articles/2013/01/16/migs_over_kargil_how_the_fulcrum_buzzed_the_falcons_21659

 

[third eye]

BVR etc was of no consequence.

The larger issue was & still is the use of AF across an accepted LOC. This would have been a huge escalation which in turn would have pulled out all the stops for the IA,IAF & IN.

That was something Mush had not bargained for. He expected a surreptitious incursion with the intent of altering the LOC which was not to be.

Also, supporting Pak ground troops across the LOC would have meant firing into Indian territory on Indian troops who were on their own side of the LOC. This again would have attracted retaliation across the LOC & IB.

BTW it would have suited Vajpayee if the PAF had crossed.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

I Dont know how many times we have discussed this subject in different manners...really tired of it..useless and pointless.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

But one things has changed and that is India is an economic power with over a trillion dollar economy,

Correction : India is a 2.4 Trillion dollar economy

 

[M.SAAD]

I Dont know how many times we have discussed this subject in different manners...really tired of it..useless and pointless.

Get out of this thread then .


and let the serious posters comment on this .

 

[A-Team]

Correction : India is a 2.4 Trillion dollar economy

That's why I said over a Trillion

Question : When are we getting the remaining Hinds? , bet you will get the Apaches soon enough!

I Dont know how many times we have discussed this subject in different manners...really tired of it..useless and pointless.

I for one find it interesting.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Question : When are we getting the remaining Hinds? , bet you will get the Apaches soon enough!

Soon enough -- As soon as the Russians can make them
We are only financing them -- they will come directly from Russia

 

[war&peace]

I Dont know how many times we have discussed this subject in different manners...really tired of it..useless and pointless.

Really how come you read so much about it rookie ...you just started on Feb 23, 2016 and I don't think since then there has been a lot of discussion about it.

 

[!eon]

Ok this may sound harsh to some. No trolling please!

Is it the same war where Pakistani establishment maintained that it's the Freedom Fighters from Kashmir fighting the Indian occupiers?

Is it me or do I see some parallels as some in Pakistan who maintain that Afghan Talis are freedom fighters, fighting occupiers and the infidel Afghan government.

Seems nothing has changed in the mindset of Pakistani establishment? But one things has changed and that is India is an economic power with over a trillion dollar economy, Afghanistan is emerging albeit still long way to go, and Pakistani establishment seems to be still stuck in engineering proxies abroad.

Makes you think! No? You don't need to be a genius to realize that Pakistan needs a serious pivot.

Dear A-Team nice to hear that Afghanistan is progressing.
But as Pakistan is stuck in stone age, kindly can you take your refugees back ?

 

[A-Team]

Really how come you read so much about it rookie ...you just started on Feb 23, 2016 and I don't think since then there has a lot of discussion about it.

You are being harsh on him

 

[M.SAAD]

BVR etc was of no consequence.

The larger issue was & still is the use of AF across an accepted LOC. This would have been a huge escalation which in turn would have pulled out all the stops for the IA,IAF & IN.

That was something Mush had not bargained for. He expected a surreptitious incursion with the intent of altering the LOC which was not to be.

Also, supporting Pak ground troops across the LOC would have meant firing into Indian territory on Indian troops who were on their own side of the LOC. This again would have attracted retaliation across the LOC & IB.

BTW it would have suited Vajpayee if the PAF had crossed.

Musharaf was seriously a dumb*** to go ahead with the plan, without informing the civilian govt. PAF chief , PN chief etc etc, in any other country he'd have got court martialed except for Pakistan where he became the President of the country soon after war (where he was solely responsible for putting the lives of Pak soldiers on the line for basically nothing)..


I think if Kargil was to happen, it should've been years ago prolly in the Zia era (when Siachin dispute was hot) with proper planning and tactics involving all units .

 

[A-Team]

Dear A-Team nice to hear that Afghanistan is progressing.
But as Pakistan is stuck in stone age, kindly can you take your refugees back ?

- I didn't say Pakistan is stuck in stone age, I said that it can do better but needs a pivot in terms of its policies vis-a-vis her neighbours.

- Refugees must return back to Afghanistan asap and we thank the people of Pakistan for being great hosts. Remember we have differences over policy matters, and nothing against the Pakistani public.

/Peace

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

It would have gone Nuclear as soon as Actual line of Control was violated. Both India and Pakistan did not want that because it was too soon after the declaration of becoming Nuclear States.

The Indian lost more men because they did not want to open an all out war. The Indian Army was forced to send troops up knowing that they would encounter heavy resistance.

Pakistan always said that they did not have hand in this operation and the Kashmiri Freedom fighters were the ones that had attacked and taken control of the Indian check posts. The moment the munition ended that was the time the Indian took these check posts back. If PAF and Pakistan Army would have been involved directly then this would have been not the case and the war would have persisted over a longer period. One that was unacceptable to both parties because it brought them closer to a Nuclear conflict day by day.

 

[A-Team]

Musharaf was seriously a dumb*** to go ahead with the plan, without informing the civilian govt. PAF chief , PN chief etc etc, in any other country he'd have got court martialed except for Pakistan where he became the President of the country soon after war (where he was solely responsible for putting the lives of Pak soldiers on the line for basically nothing)..


I think if Kargil was to happen, it should've been years ago prolly in the Zia era (when Siachin dispute was hot) with proper planning and tactics involving all units .

Questioning the established order shows maturity and mature discussion is what is needed in our part of the world.