What really went wrong in the past couple of months

[moha199]

I am really woundring what really went down in past months. What caused all this electric load shutting? Food crises? We all know all these things happend but i want to know from the Goverment of Pakistan that what caused it? Why did they put the blind eye on it? Or is there any foreign hand in all this? Which i strongly belive!!! What do you guys think? What really caused it? What information do we have? Final thing why i think it is important is because it had a lot of impact on elections. We need to discuss it what i belive and we should come up to realities of all these problems. Please play your role by answering these questions and bring some understanding regarding all these Issues............ My personal hope is to see your answers and discussion on these issues to help me understand this thanks to everybody
Long live Pakistan
Long live Musharraff

 

[dabong1]

I am really woundring what really went down in past months. What caused all this electric load shutting? Food crises? We all know all these things happend but i want to know from the Goverment of Pakistan that what caused it? Why did they put the blind eye on it? Or is there any foreign hand in all this? Which i strongly belive!!! What do you guys think? What really caused it? What information do we have? Final thing why i think it is important is because it had a lot of impact on elections. We need to discuss it what i belive and we should come up to realities of all these problems. Please play your role by answering these questions and bring some understanding regarding all these Issues............ My personal hope is to see your answers and discussion on these issues to help me understand this thanks to everybody
Long live Pakistan
Long live Musharraff

I am really woundring what really went down in past months. What caused all this electric load shutting?

People having access to easy credit to buy electricial goods but the mushy govt not planing to increase pwer supply at the same time......incompetance.
Or it could be that NS and AZ where stealing electricity..?

Food crises? We all know all these things happend but i want to know from the Goverment of Pakistan that what caused it?

Most people would blame the leader of the country........but when it comes to mushy we have to find an excuse.
Maybe it was the mullahs.......i have never seen a skinny mullah...it has to be them!

Why did they put the blind eye on it? Or is there any foreign hand in all this? Which i strongly belive!!! What do you guys think?

Cheap bannanas are the problem........blame jamaicia

Long live Musharraff

Hopefully somewhere far away from islamabad

 

[relent8]

Firstly talking abt Electric Load Shedding:


Failure of past governments

The corrupt governments of PML-N and PPP, which still consider themselves to be vital for democratic dialogue within the provinces, failed to create dialogue within the provinces on the most important issue facing Pakistan’s (water & energy) survival – Kalabagh Dam. Their governments failed to plan for the future growth and energy requirements of Pakistan.

Unexpected Economic Boom & Energy Requirement in this Era

Pakistan’s $75 billion economy boomed into a $160 billion economy, with the consumption of gas, electricity and coal increasing yearly to an average rate of 7.8 percent, 5.1 percent and 8.8 percent, respectively.

The number of electricity consumers grew from 15.9 million in 2005-06 to 16.7 million in 2007, showing a growth of about 70 percent over the last 10 years.

The major energy consumption sectors of the country are: Industrial (38.3 percent), Transport (32.8 percent), Residential and Commercial (25 percent), Agriculture (2.5 percent) and others (2.2 percent).

As regards electricity, the household sector has been the largest consumer over the last 10 years, on average consuming 44.8 percent, followed by the industrial sector (29.4 percent), agriculture (12.2 percent), commercial sector (5.9 percent) and street lights (10.6 percent).



Current Concrete steps being taken by the Government

Pakistan is seeking to explore alternative sources of energy production and the use of wind and solar technologies with the aim to produce 9,700 MW wind power by 2030, thereby providing electricity to 7,874 off-grid villages in Sindh and Baluchistan.

The government is giving top priority to Hydel power with the potential of producing 40,000 MW power of which only 15 percent has been exploited so far. Source.

In 2001, the Water and Power Development Authority of Pakistan identified 22 sites for launching Hydropower projects to meet the ever-increasing demand for cheap power. It indicated that about 15,074 megawatts could be generated on the completion of these projects, which would also meet the water irrigation requirements for the growing agriculture sector. Source.

The Pakistan Sugar Mills Association (PSMA) has informed the government that sugar mills can produce 2,000MW of electricity in the next five years.

The Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) has decided to establish an Engineering Design Organization (EDO) for the indigenous development of nuclear power plants (NPPs) in the country. The PAEC informed authorities that it was planning to add about 1,260MW through Hydel power, 880MW from Alternate energy, 4,860MW from Gas, 900MW from Coal and 160MW from Oil by 2010. Source.

The Karachi Electric Supply Corporation (KESC) is investing in a new 220-megawatt power plant that will help control the power shortages in the city. The plant will start generating 192MW by March and the remaining 28MW will be distributed by December 2008. Source.

The government has decided to develop the Thar coal for power generation on a priority basis to overcome energy crisis following:


Confirmed estimates that its reserves were equivalent to at least 850 Trillion Cubic Feet (TCF) of gas — about 30 times higher than Pakistan’s proven gas reserves of 28 TCF.

By using only 2% of the existing coal reserves, we can generate around 20,000 MW (20 GW) for almost 40 years

These estimates were confirmed by separate bankable feasibility studies conducted by Chinese and Russian experts.

185 Billion Tons of coal deposits in Pakistan were second only to 247 Billion Ton reserves in the United States and much higher than 157 and 115 Billion Ton reserves of Russia and China, respectively.

Thar coal reserves were equivalent to at least 400 Billion Barrels of oil — equivalent to oil reserves of Saudi Arabia and Iran put together. One estimate puts Pakistan’s coal energy at 576 Billion Barrels of oil which is equivalent to the combined oil reserves of the 3 largest producers.

 

[relent8]

Ongoing Power Projects

The Ongoing Power Projects for which allocations have been made in 2007-08 Budget are: Mangla Dam Raising Project (Rs 20 billion), Mirani Dam (Rs 500 million), Sabakzai Dam (Rs 200 million), Kurram Tangi Dam (Rs 2.84 billion), Sadpara Multipurpose Dam Rs (900 million), Gomal Zam Dam (Rs 1.8 billion), the Greater Thal Canal Phase I (Rs 8.5 billion), the Greater Thal Canal Phase II (Rs 2.5 billion), Katchi Canal Phase I (Rs 8.50 billion), Rainee Canal Phase II (Rs 2.50 billion), Lower Indus Right Bank Irrigation and Drainage, Sindh, (Rs 1.9 billion), Balochistan Effluent Disposal into RECD (RECD-III) (Rs 800 million), construction of 20 small dams in NWFP (Rs 870 million), Bhasha/ Diamer Dam (Rs 500 million), Khan-Khawar hydro project (Rs 1.3 billion), Dubir Khawar hydro project (Rs 2.1 billion), transmission arrangements for power dispersal of Ghazi Barotha (Rs 1.67 billion) and Neelam-Jhelum hydro project (Rs 10 billion).

New projects for the next fiscal year include the Sukkur Barrage Rehabilitation and Improvement project (Rs 100 million), Akhori Dam PC I (Rs 200 million), construction of Jaban Hydroelectric Power Station and Jaban Hydroelectric Power Station (Rs 40 million).

 

[moha199]

Firstly talking abt Electric Load Shedding:


Failure of past governments

The corrupt governments of PML-N and PPP, which still consider themselves to be vital for democratic dialogue within the provinces, failed to create dialogue within the provinces on the most important issue facing Pakistan’s (water & energy) survival – Kalabagh Dam. Their governments failed to plan for the future growth and energy requirements of Pakistan.

Unexpected Economic Boom & Energy Requirement in this Era

Pakistan’s $75 billion economy boomed into a $160 billion economy, with the consumption of gas, electricity and coal increasing yearly to an average rate of 7.8 percent, 5.1 percent and 8.8 percent, respectively.

The number of electricity consumers grew from 15.9 million in 2005-06 to 16.7 million in 2007, showing a growth of about 70 percent over the last 10 years.

The major energy consumption sectors of the country are: Industrial (38.3 percent), Transport (32.8 percent), Residential and Commercial (25 percent), Agriculture (2.5 percent) and others (2.2 percent).

As regards electricity, the household sector has been the largest consumer over the last 10 years, on average consuming 44.8 percent, followed by the industrial sector (29.4 percent), agriculture (12.2 percent), commercial sector (5.9 percent) and street lights (10.6 percent).



Current Concrete steps being taken by the Government

Pakistan is seeking to explore alternative sources of energy production and the use of wind and solar technologies with the aim to produce 9,700 MW wind power by 2030, thereby providing electricity to 7,874 off-grid villages in Sindh and Baluchistan.

The government is giving top priority to Hydel power with the potential of producing 40,000 MW power of which only 15 percent has been exploited so far. Source.

In 2001, the Water and Power Development Authority of Pakistan identified 22 sites for launching Hydropower projects to meet the ever-increasing demand for cheap power. It indicated that about 15,074 megawatts could be generated on the completion of these projects, which would also meet the water irrigation requirements for the growing agriculture sector. Source.

The Pakistan Sugar Mills Association (PSMA) has informed the government that sugar mills can produce 2,000MW of electricity in the next five years.

The Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) has decided to establish an Engineering Design Organization (EDO) for the indigenous development of nuclear power plants (NPPs) in the country. The PAEC informed authorities that it was planning to add about 1,260MW through Hydel power, 880MW from Alternate energy, 4,860MW from Gas, 900MW from Coal and 160MW from Oil by 2010. Source.

The Karachi Electric Supply Corporation (KESC) is investing in a new 220-megawatt power plant that will help control the power shortages in the city. The plant will start generating 192MW by March and the remaining 28MW will be distributed by December 2008. Source.

The government has decided to develop the Thar coal for power generation on a priority basis to overcome energy crisis following:


Confirmed estimates that its reserves were equivalent to at least 850 Trillion Cubic Feet (TCF) of gas — about 30 times higher than Pakistan’s proven gas reserves of 28 TCF.

By using only 2% of the existing coal reserves, we can generate around 20,000 MW (20 GW) for almost 40 years

These estimates were confirmed by separate bankable feasibility studies conducted by Chinese and Russian experts.

185 Billion Tons of coal deposits in Pakistan were second only to 247 Billion Ton reserves in the United States and much higher than 157 and 115 Billion Ton reserves of Russia and China, respectively.

Thar coal reserves were equivalent to at least 400 Billion Barrels of oil — equivalent to oil reserves of Saudi Arabia and Iran put together. One estimate puts Pakistan’s coal energy at 576 Billion Barrels of oil which is equivalent to the combined oil reserves of the 3 largest producers. (See this. The recent government has initiated the process).

I got what you are saying bro but i also feel that Pakistan made alot of U turns after 1998 but the major U turn was 2001. Meaning by U turns. Pakistan made all these plans in work in this administration. Our biggest economic sector was agricultare before 2001 but after this we made a U turn and made our industrial sector the biggest and definatly which takes alot of electricity no doubt about this. So as of your information all the blaim goes to NS and BB govs for this because Pakistan became so advance in past 8 years that we ran out of our assests meaning electric. and ofcorse it take alot of time to put together plans and making all these plans to make them up and running !!!!!!!!!!

 

[relent8]

I got what you are saying bro but i also feel that Pakistan made alot of U turns after 1998 but the major U turn was 2001. Meaning by U turns. Pakistan made all these plans in work in this administration. Our biggest economic sector was agricultare before 2001 but after this we made a U turn and made our industrial sector the biggest and definatly which takes alot of electricity no doubt about this. So as of your information all the blaim goes to NS and BB govs for this because Pakistan became so advance in past 8 years that we ran out of our assests meaning electric. and ofcorse it take alot of time to put together plans and making all these plans to make them up and running !!!!!!!!!!

Yes Moha,,, these are the facts which our gr8 media have deliberately not shown or talked abt at all... In a country like Pakistan when so much growth,development,record acievements have been made in mere 8years,, it was media's responsibility to show all this and tell the people what has been achieved and how important this acievement is.
But when some people purposely want to derail the government, then nothing comes in mind.
Every news is political, every talk-show is political, every little problem is "crisis"(bohraan) to them,and the result of this is a brainwashed nation, which was already uneducated.

The answer to ur main topic question (WHAT WENT WRONG?) , also lies in the fact that other than these little and short-staying flour,sugar problems...
our media has played the role of uneducated and illiterate people. They dont understand the priorities of matters, they dont understand wat is important to country and its image, they dont understand "national interest"

Wat they do give importance to is ,,, "We will show it first", thats all,
now whether how unimportant and how much image destabilising that news might be, they will just show it for the sake of "We will show it first"
And over the years this immaturity and has grown and grown more frequently, and has become the cause of low morale and insecurity in our nation towards certain unneccessary things.

Giving voice to polictical parties who have their own personal agendas, or should i say foriegn agenda with them, is a foolish act.
Every one knows that the lawyers protesting are not real lawyers, they are backed up by political parties while these parties are backed up by foriegn hands.
Is this so hard for some people to understand or accept??

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

The problem lies with us that we were too slow to understand that if an ecomnomy is being put on a fast growing track then the corresponding resources on which the economy is taking its feed have to be buildup equally.

Shortage of Electricity is horable considering that in 2000 Pakistan had enough electricity to Export to India. But now we are importing from Iran. Shows only ill planning on government's part and requires a fast track action plan for all sources of Energy conversions to be utilized on priority basis.

There lies no shortage of Resources in Pakistan, but its usage and proper planning is lacking. Just recently government allowed 2 Companies to install Wind Turbines for Electricity production which should have been done 3 years a go when the Department for such resource studies was created. No followups from Government are also a cause in this problem. Thou it is true that it was exposed more due to very cold weather making the gas pressure getting lower and lower which feeds almost all the IPP in Pakistan Electricity network, which is based on gas turbines....... Still 70% of the problem is due an ill governence (not knowing the requirements of a boasting economy and fast developing country.

 

[moha199]

The problem lies with us that we were too slow to understand that if an ecomnomy is being put on a fast growing track then the corresponding resources on which the economy is taking its feed have to be buildup equally.

Shortage of Electricity is horable considering that in 2000 Pakistan had enough electricity to Export to India. But now we are importing from Iran. Shows only ill planning on government's part and requires a fast track action plan for all sources of Energy conversions to be utilized on priority basis.

There lies no shortage of Resources in Pakistan, but its usage and proper planning is lacking. Just recently government allowed 2 Companies to install Wind Turbines for Electricity production which should have been done 3 years a go when the Department for such resource studies was created. No followups from Government are also a cause in this problem. Thou it is true that it was exposed more due to very cold weather making the gas pressure getting lower and lower which feeds almost all the IPP in Pakistan Electricity network, which is based on gas turbines....... Still 70% of the problem is due an ill governence (not knowing the requirements of a boasting economy and fast developing country.

Sorry brother i don't know your name lol but what i get from you is that it is Musharraff GOVerment's ill planing for all these electric shortage? is that right or ML-Q right?

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Its not that i am against Musharaf.

I am a supporter of Musharaf but one should point out the wrongs and missed issues also.

 

[relent8]

The problem lies with us that we were too slow to understand that if an ecomnomy is being put on a fast growing track then the corresponding resources on which the economy is taking its feed have to be buildup equally.

Your point is very much valid PP, but Pakistan has never seen this much momentum, therefore, it was entirely unexpected for this much requirement to take place.

Electricity was consumed in huge amounts suddenly while the back-up was not sufficient. And this back-up could not have been sufficient even if government planned and did not show any lacklutreness in building back-up,, this is my opinion.

The back-up resources just cant catch up with so high demand, and there cant be a magic-wand situatuon in which everything takes place perfetly.

But the argument which we listen everyone saying these days is , that nothing has happened at all. All economic policies have failed and every growth and development is just for the rich and not for poor.
This is the point which i call creating misperception in people's mind.

Atleast majority should give credit to this governement for starting things to happen, unlike in past. Atleast say that process of development has started and it'll only become perfect with time. Atleast accept the intentions of this government towards real development and not just slogans.Atleast criticise in a constructive manner. Atleast dont demoralise the nation by showing that little undone work, which also is in the process of completion but needs time.

The huge achievments of the last 8 years are being brought to failure by fingering out unneccessary and short-lived problems. And instead of helping the government in overcoming these problems,, we r pointing fingers at them frequently on minor issues.

And i believe that all these misperceptions have prevailed in the minds of people,, becoz media has shown support and gave voice to the demoralising political parties, who very well themselves know,what is rite and wat's wrong.
But our dumb and irresponsible media had its own opinion, and they have tried to force people to believe it.

 

[moha199]

Yes Moha,,, these are the facts which our gr8 media have deliberately not shown or talked abt at all... In a country like Pakistan when so much growth,development,record acievements have been made in mere 8years,, it was media's responsibility to show all this and tell the people what has been achieved and how important this acievement is.
But when some people purposely want to derail the government, then nothing comes in mind.
Every news is political, every talk-show is political, every little problem is "crisis"(bohraan) to them,and the result of this is a brainwashed nation, which was already uneducated.

The answer to ur main topic question (WHAT WENT WRONG?) , also lies in the fact that other than these little and short-staying flour,sugar problems...
our media has played the role of uneducated and illiterate people. They dont understand the priorities of matters, they dont understand wat is important to country and its image, they dont understand "national interest"

Wat they do give importance to is ,,, "We will show it first", thats all,
now whether how unimportant and how much image destabilising that news might be, they will just show it for the sake of "We will show it first"
And over the years this immaturity and has grown and grown more frequently, and has become the cause of low morale and insecurity in our nation towards certain unneccessary things.

Giving voice to polictical parties who have their own personal agendas, or should i say foriegn agenda with them, is a foolish act.
Every one knows that the lawyers protesting are not real lawyers, they are backed up by political parties while these parties are backed up by foriegn hands.
Is this so hard for some people to understand or accept??

I totally agree with your bro on this. It was our media's responsibility to deliver the message to the people but here is an other question i will through? lol i live in USA we **** americans or native american all or most of us are against the war in IRAQ and now else where aswell what i belive and hear from people. USA's Gov is doing very bad in public oppinion people are dying in IRAQ american are dying not alot of work and all these crises what we see here but funny thing is that we don't see media all day talking about this and i have hardly seen anyone talking GOV in the media and if somebody does he/she is a guest but media correspondent blash them out. We dont see media talking against army or BUSH over IRAQ which i belive is a bigest disaster for USA anyways come to the point. Here we have a so called dictator but still he can't controle media or can't convaince people through media!!! i mean people don't see what they have gotton in past 9 years what they havn't gotton before? A person who never even thought of mobile phone now has 3-4 mobile phone!!! people who never thought of having a bike has a car! where we had 1 tv channel now we have more then 50 plus! where we hardly had other countries working in pakistan now we have not one two or three but so many companies working in pakistan! we are almost compeating with most of the countries.!!! Bro the sad part is the Great nations are proud they have partoitism. But i guess Pakistan doesn't. When i see USA this country meaning USA have gone over so many difficulties but USA stood stand and still and together WE SAY HERE " UNITED WE STAND" Every 4th car has a USA flag on it in the form of sticker!or little flag! or as of air fressner in the car etc But in Pakistan we see lol hardly only GOV BUILDINGS. back to the point THE ONLY PROUD NATIONS RULE THE WORLD. Where we Pakistani people talk all big and act all big but we do less then small stuff. in general talking about public. We ask what Pakistan has given US but we always neglect theQuestion what have we given Pakistan!! The people like Musharraf are bad in public and people like Zardari and BB are famous. LONG LIVE PAKISTAN AMIN

 

[MOSABJA]

What went wrong did not go wrong in PAST MONTHS.

It has been going wrong for YEARS.Since Musharraf came into power.


Musharraf might have done some good things.

But I think due to his govs CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE not even a single MW could be added in 8 years.

now he(Mush) says that we will do this or that or this much projects in next 3 years.WHAT THE HELL YOU DID IN 8 YEARS.
NOT EVEN A SINGLE POWER PROJECT.


Not even a Single dam.
Single MW from 4 th largest coal reserves worth 60 trillion $.
Not a single MW from estimated 80,000 MW potential of Wind Power.

 

[JK!]

What went wrong did not go wrong in PAST MONTHS.

It has been going wrong for YEARS.Since Musharraf came into power.


Musharraf might have done some good things.

But I think due to his govs CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE not even a single MW could be added in 8 years.

now he(Mush) says that we will do this or that or this much projects in next 3 years.WHAT THE HELL YOU DID IN 8 YEARS.
NOT EVEN A SINGLE POWER PROJECT.

Not even a Single dam.
Single MW from 4 th largest coal reserves worth 60 trillion $.
Not a single MW from estimated 80,000 MW potential of Wind Power.

Coal of really bad quality which would require cleaning first to remove impurities at huge cost.

Dam construction is being held up by politics.

Furthermore, wind turbines are quite an expensive technology at the moment for example the 3 wind turbines at Bristol port generating 6MW had a capital cost of £7 million.

Could Pakistan afford that right now?

 

[relent8]

now he(Mush) says that we will do this or that or this much projects in next 3years.WHAT THE HELL YOU DID IN 8 YEARS.
NOT EVEN A SINGLE POWER PROJECT.
Not even a Single dam.

I m amazed that u missed my 1st post i this thread on the 1st page.

Not even a Single dam.

LOL MOSABJA, u r joking rite??

DAWN, Mirani Dam

National Archives 259 Dams in Balochistan

Importantly this one:
http://thebaluch.com/documents/Paper_Mega_Projects_in_Balochistan.pdf

Kacchi Canal is getting ready as well.

There was an issue abt Kalabagh Dam and Bhasha Dam, some of our dumb politicians were coming in the way of building these dams, but Musharraf, decided to built them eventually and Bhasha is the one, which should start in March2008 after its drawings will be complete.

Diamer-Bhasha dam

Im sure no one would blame the delaying of building this dam by our "country loving" political parties PPP and PML-N... but would blame Musharraf instead for taking a stance and making a good decision despite of so much disturbance and problems cause by parties and some people.
So keep it up!!! keep blaming Musharraf for everything.

 

[blain2]

People having access to easy credit to buy electricial goods but the mushy govt not planing to increase pwer supply at the same time......incompetance.
Or it could be that NS and AZ where stealing electricity..?

I think this is an unfair assessment of the situation. How is the government suppose to increase power supply? The IPPs said they do not have any excess capacity. The only solution is the dams that are a decade late. Had the 90s been spent building the infrastructure such as KBD, we would not be at this juncture. The opposition parties including PPP, PML and others have played the provincialism game at the expense of Pakistan. Multiple feasibility studies have been conducted under the Musharraf govt. stating that these dams should be built so Pakistan's power needs to can met but our politicians have other things on their minds.