What Pakistan Army Should Do To Redeem Itself?

[truthseeker2010]

Finally someone who can smell the coffee and giving a legitimate suggestion.

In my opinion Pakistan will always remain unstable until there is a degree of cultural assimilation. Its foundation is too weak which gives room very easily for insurgency to be provoked even at the slightest of political instability.

By the way did you read the document I tagged you on a while ago?

If Pakistan truly wants to change its trajectory towards true growth, I would reform every national institution currently and raise the standard of quality.

From the ISI, to the several government ministries responsible for different economic and development aspects. There should be a new institution that monitors their competency and efficiency, to verify their productivity. We need a strong anti-corruption body as well.

I'd also refine the counterinsurgency tactics and equipment we are using, US might be more willing to co-operate here. I would also create contingency plans for scenarios where a mass insurgency could start in the most unstable regions. (Waziristan/KP)

There are already institution for everything, or even more than required. But the main problem is basic, the people running all these. The actual cream of pakistan does not give ISSB or CSS. They opt out of country as soon as they able to do so. And with current mess in last year or so. Things will only speed up south.

 

[khansaheeb]

Army as a whole has lost love of Pakistan.
Please Give one liner what Pakistan Army can do that it can redeem itself and get back the love and reverance of the people.
Please only positive responses you genuinely feel, no acrimony.

For me -
Get back Jammu & Kashmir in next Five Years.
Including Laddakh.
Himachal Paradesh too.

Pakistanis should:-

 

[Signalian]

We are spending billions of dollars on them only for getting back kashmir from india , agar nhi lay sakty to band karo yeh notanki fouj wali

After 71 debacle, the prime need for nuke was to avert a defeat or cut off, not get Kashmir.

You guys are way off your mark.

 

[truthseeker2010]

They are incapable of what is required of them to be liked. They cannot do what they have been doing for ages. Do whatever they want to do and keep the population fooled behind stupid narratives.

They cannot stay out of Politics and power. Because they have such a massive empire. If they take there foor out, The empowered civilian govt will go after there wealth.

Kashmir Fatah karen gey, India Fatah karen gey, Afghanistan Fatah karen gey.
At the end Har baar Islamabad hi fatah kartey hain
Allah inhe Hidayat dey bas.

Exactly, people here are overthinking, as if army generals really take into account what general public thinks about them. Had that been the way, things would never have messed up. As long as money and property is flowing in cantts and they have guns in their hands. All is good. Rest can go to hell because paradise is due to them as they have either shaheed tags or they have always been righteous.

 

[Riz]

After 71 debacle, the prime need for nuke was to avert a defeat or cut off, not get Kashmir.

You guys are way off your mark.

Lol hum to janty bhi na hotay ab tak kashmir ko agar yeh har 6 maheeny bad ganna na release karty

 

[Signalian]

As they say, a hammer only sees nails to hammer. I agree the thrust should be more military and leave politics completely. Given our economic conditions we need to reassess where we can cut back in terms of benefits to every government servant, be they judges, beaurocrats or army personnel - esp Generals. We need an assessment and report on the anmbushes that have happened already to see what was done wrong and errors punished. This should be made public.

India is our existential enemy. We will be fighting them eventually, if not in 10,50,100 then a thousand years.

The perks for generals have already come down in past 10 years. Reports for ambushes/incidents are made after every incident, not just for HQ but it also adds to history of the unit.

Army had said it has gone neutral but every Tom dick Harry is now a conspiracy theorist who will try to find a hidden deeper conspiracy by either connecting dots through events, historical evidence or they will keep rubbing their noses into videos circulated by media to find some sort of connection through logical reasoning - even if truth is far from it.

So army going neutral - take it or leave it.

A conventional war requires certain weapons used in certain formations, and the whole country gets engulfed into war as it progresses so eventually the whole security apparatus gets bogged down. The current war that Pakistan faces sees 6 out of 9 Corps HQs sitting in peacetime. The Corps involved in COIN are 11 and 12, while 10th is active on LOC. These 6 Corps HQs are training and waiting for a conventional war. At least 4 of these Corps cannot leave their places while 2 Corps have divisions or brigades to spare if needed in COIN.

However, whether it’s a conventional war or COIN war or Hybrid war or cyber war or intelligence war - India is behind it. So which war can Pakistan fight and win is the question since the current war is inside Pakistani terrain.

Lol hum to janty bhi na hotay ab tak kashmir ko agar yeh har 6 maheeny bad ganna na release karty

Tum logon ki fazool bakwas ki wajah se kaafi knowledgeable members ne post karna hi chor diya hay kiyun k tum jeson k moun kiyun lagain Jo Sara din bak bak kartay hain aur do takkay ki posts kar k Sara din guzaartay hain PDF pe.

 

[TheSolution]

There are already institution for everything, or even more than required. But the main problem is basic, the people running all these. The actual cream of pakistan does not give ISSB or CSS. They opt out of country as soon as they able to do so. And with current mess in last year or so. Things will only speed up south.

That's my point, they exist but they are pretty much useless, just by looking at the quality of their media, websites, etc, you can tell the staff is very incompetent and the institution is ineffective and careless. Nothing compared to its foreign counterparts, they seem like they're run by children.

We need reforms where selection process is more strict, no nepotism, more higher quality human resource. And an institution which can monitor their productivity to make sure they're functioning effectively to an acceptable standard.

The perks for generals have already come down in past 10 years. Reports for ambushes/incidents are made after every incident, not just for HQ but it also adds to history of the unit.

Army had said it has gone neutral but every Tom dick Harry is now a conspiracy theorist who will try to find a hidden deeper conspiracy by either connecting dots through events, historical evidence or they will keep rubbing their noses into videos circulated by media to find some sort of connection through logical reasoning - even if truth is far from it.

So army going neutral - take it or leave it.

A conventional war requires certain weapons used in certain formations, and the whole country gets engulfed into war as it progresses so eventually the whole security apparatus gets bogged down. The current war that Pakistan faces sees 6 out of 9 Corps HQs sitting in peacetime. The Corps involved in COIN are 11 and 12, while 10th is active on LOC. These 6 Corps HQs are training and waiting for a conventional war. At least 4 of these Corps cannot leave their places while 2 Corps have divisions or brigades to spare if needed in COIN.

However, whether it’s a conventional war or COIN war or Hybrid war or cyber war or intelligence war - India is behind it. So which war can Pakistan fight and win is the question since the current war is inside Pakistani terrain.

Are we developing any biological/chemical weapons?

And do we have contingency plans in case of mass insurgency in KP/Waziristan?

 

[N.Siddiqui]

A country where army rules supreme has no respect and no standing in the world.

Cede space to civilians and restrict Army to what is envisioned in the constitution and respect and follow it in letter and spirit.

Strong civilian institutions and inclusive, holistic well-being of the masses makes a strong country, and not a select few rich and powerful military men and elites.

 

[TheSolution]

A country where army rules supreme has no respect and no standing in the world.

Not really true

If Pakistan was showing similar growth indicators to China, while being led by the army, you think people would randomly not respect it?

Any fast developing power that protects its national interests is respected

This army is just as incompetent and corrupt as every other institution in Pakistan sadly which is the core problem, if it wasn't, their political meddling probably would've been a positive

 

[Khan_patriot]

The perks for generals have already come down in past 10 years. Reports for ambushes/incidents are made after every incident, not just for HQ but it also adds to history of the unit.

Army had said it has gone neutral but every Tom dick Harry is now a conspiracy theorist who will try to find a hidden deeper conspiracy by either connecting dots through events, historical evidence or they will keep rubbing their noses into videos circulated by media to find some sort of connection through logical reasoning - even if truth is far from it.

So army going neutral - take it or leave it.

A conventional war requires certain weapons used in certain formations, and the whole country gets engulfed into war as it progresses so eventually the whole security apparatus gets bogged down. The current war that Pakistan faces sees 6 out of 9 Corps HQs sitting in peacetime. The Corps involved in COIN are 11 and 12, while 10th is active on LOC. These 6 Corps HQs are training and waiting for a conventional war. At least 4 of these Corps cannot leave their places while 2 Corps have divisions or brigades to spare if needed in COIN.

However, whether it’s a conventional war or COIN war or Hybrid war or cyber war or intelligence war - India is behind it. So which war can Pakistan fight and win is the question since the current war is inside Pakistani terrain.


Tum logon ki fazool bakwas ki wajah se kaafi knowledgeable members ne post karna hi chor diya hay kiyun k tum jeson k moun kiyun lagain Jo Sara din bak bak kartay hain aur do takkay ki posts kar k Sara din guzaartay hain PDF pe.

Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - Mark Twain

 

[MilSpec]

The perks for generals have already come down in past 10 years. Reports for ambushes/incidents are made after every incident, not just for HQ but it also adds to history of the unit.

Army had said it has gone neutral but every Tom dick Harry is now a conspiracy theorist who will try to find a hidden deeper conspiracy by either connecting dots through events, historical evidence or they will keep rubbing their noses into videos circulated by media to find some sort of connection through logical reasoning - even if truth is far from it.

So army going neutral - take it or leave it.

A conventional war requires certain weapons used in certain formations, and the whole country gets engulfed into war as it progresses so eventually the whole security apparatus gets bogged down. The current war that Pakistan faces sees 6 out of 9 Corps HQs sitting in peacetime. The Corps involved in COIN are 11 and 12, while 10th is active on LOC. These 6 Corps HQs are training and waiting for a conventional war. At least 4 of these Corps cannot leave their places while 2 Corps have divisions or brigades to spare if needed in COIN.

However, whether it’s a conventional war or COIN war or Hybrid war or cyber war or intelligence war - India is behind it. So which war can Pakistan fight and win is the question since the current war is inside Pakistani terrain.


Tum logon ki fazool bakwas ki wajah se kaafi knowledgeable members ne post karna hi chor diya hay kiyun k tum jeson k moun kiyun lagain Jo Sara din bak bak kartay hain aur do takkay ki posts kar k Sara din guzaartay hain PDF pe.

How many DHA plots for a Corp commander level? Just asking?

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Not really true

If Pakistan was showing similar growth indicators to China, while being led by the army, you think people would randomly not respect it?

Any fast developing power that protects its national interests is respected

This army is just as incompetent and corrupt as every other institution in Pakistan sadly which is the core problem, if it wasn't, their political meddling probably would've been a positive

China is ruled by the Communist party of China and not by it's army, check the working model of Communist party of China.

North Korea is the country rather where Army rules supreme.


China communist party manifesto.

"Practise socialist core values", including Marxism-Leninism, Communism and "socialism with Chinese characteristics". "Improving people's livelihood and well-being is the primary goal of development".

 

[TheSolution]

China is ruled by the Communist party of China and not but it's army, check the working model of Communist party of China.

North Korea is the country rather where Army rules supreme.

I know but the point is - the system of governance doesn't matter - it's the results and development.

If army rule achieved results I would not be against it - but it clearly isn't.

The army is just as incompetent and corrupt as every other institution, and that's the reason their political meddling is failing so badly. If it wasn't, we'd be in a much stronger position today.

 

[Goritoes]

Collective Suicide

 

[Olympus81]

Voluntarily submit themselves to Defense Minister bid and close down political cell.

Do that on a perpetual basis and few years down the line, you’ll earn their respect.