What is Kashmir Worth to Pakistan?

[Stephen Cohen]

It is easy to blame any Deity. Nations are responsible for making their own destinies, good or bad.

Just look at Middle east ; Africa ; Latin America ; Afghanistan and all other trouble spots

Do you really think all this is just a coincidence

 

[VCheng]

Just look at Middle east ; Africa ; Latin America ; Afghanistan and all other trouble spots

Do you really think all this is just a coincidence

Let's stay on topic in this thread: Kashmir, and the two countries claiming it in totality.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Let's stay on topic in this thread: Kashmir, and the two countries claiming it in totality.

We are happy with the LOC ; Pakistan wants more

 

[VCheng]

We are happy with the LOC ; Pakistan wants more

Then let India make a formal offer to this effect and invite UN to help in its implementation.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Then let India make a formal offer to this effect and invite UN to help in its implementation.

Pakistan knows that we are not asking for any more territory ; and never have
Political statements made are irrelevant

And since it is Pakistan which wants more ; this offer has to come from Pakistan

Because it would be a Big climbdown for Pakistan ; a complete change of policy

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan knows that we are not asking for any more territory ; and never have
Political statements made are irrelevant

And since it is Pakistan which wants more ; this offer has to come from Pakistan

Because it would be a Big climbdown for Pakistan ; a complete change of policy

Such an offer would be a huge change for both sides, not just any one.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Such an offer would be a huge change for both sides, not just any one.

We would accept it immediately ; but It would amount Pakistan
disowning its 70 year campaign for Kashmir

How will PA explain to the people

 

[VCheng]

We would accept it immediately ; but It would amount Pakistan
disowning its 70 year campaign for Kashmir

How will PA explain to the people

India making such an offer first would enable the change in Pakistan's policy to sell it to its own people. Or may be it will force Pakistan to deal with the geopolitical fallout from rejecting such an offer.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

India making such an offer first would enable the change in Pakistan's policy to sell it to its own people. Or may be it will force Pakistan to deal with the geopolitical fallout from rejecting such an offer.

The Gen Musharraf -- Man Mohan Singh talks of which Mr Kasuri was also a part
were primarily centred around this concept ie No redrawing of Borders

But After General Musharraf retired ; PA has disowned and discarded it completely
and adopted the maximalist position

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is an unfair statement. Pakistan's current geopolitical position forces it to make sure that Kashmir goes fully challenged.

East Pakistan was different in its very nature. If Kashmir goes, it would have a rippling affect on whomever loses it, yes that includes India as well.

I said nothing about East Pakistan. And I know nothing about Pakistan's current political situation that did not exist before (even if in embryo).

And I don't understand what rippling effect Kashmir would have on us, other than persuading both Hindu right wing and Muslim right wing that they are in agreement in a sense.

 

[VCheng]

The Gen Musharraf -- Man Mohan Singh talks of which Mr Kasuri was also a part
were primarily centred around this concept ie No redrawing of Borders

But After General Musharraf retired ; PA has disowned and discarded it completely
and adopted the maximalist position

That was then. The question is how to move forward from where we are right now.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

That was then. The question is how to move forward from where we are right now.

It is upto Pakistan to make the first move

We are only asking for an end to terror attacks
whereas Pakistan is going ALL out for Kashmir

Pakistan feels that Kashmir is within its reach ; we dont think so

There is really no meeting ground

Let the Americans do something like they did with Modi's Visit to Lahore

But even that ended in the Pathankot attack -- It was really quick

The bubble burst in just one week

 

[VCheng]

It is upto Pakistan to make the first move

We are only asking for an end to terror attacks
whereas Pakistan is going ALL out for Kashmir

Pakistan feels that Kashmir is within its reach ; we dont think so

There is really no meeting ground

Let the Americans do something like they did with Modi's Visit to Lahore

But even that ended in the Pathankot attack -- It was really quick

The bubble burst in just one week

USA, UN, or any other country or agency will not get involved in the Kashmir issue as long as the Simla Agreement remain in place. Any approach to any third party will get this reply over this issue. It is up to Pakistan and India to figure it out bilaterally.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

USA, UN, or any other country or agency will not get involved in the Kashmir issue as long as the Simla Agreement remain in place. Any approach to any third party will get this reply over this issue. It is up to Pakistan and India to figure it out bilaterally

I was not referring to Kashmir ; just de escalation

Kashmir comes much later ; first let us see when and how we can end this
current round of hostilities OR whether it gets much worse

The problem this time is that Pakistan really believes Kashmir is finally within its Grasp
and that is a terrible mis calculation

 

[VCheng]

I was not referring to Kashmir ; just de escalation

Kashmir comes much later ; first let us see when and how we can end this
current round of hostilities OR whether it gets much worse

The problem this time is that Pakistan really believes Kashmir is finally within its Grasp
and that is a terrible mis calculation

May be Pakistan wants to double down on its bet rather than folding? It is up to its leaders to decide what to do at this stage.