What is common between 1971, 9/11, and 11/26?

[Capt.Popeye]

Can we have a link to this claim ?

HaHaHa; the Charlie has no links.........just a load of GAS, sometimes.
Most times he writes as if he is writing another "Sermon on the Mount", alas.........with no audience,
Otherwise he is just prone to just "shooting some arrows in the dark".

Even the first statement of his in the first line of his first post in this thread is BS.
He said: "India push of 60,000 insurgents into E.Pakistan followed ..............."

Hey @FaujHistorian; where did you pull that out of?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Was just pulling his leg at starting an "amusing thread".
Boredum seems to weigh heavily on him sometimes.............

You know me bro

I do not hold any ill will against modern day India.

This effort is just to show the true face of bad things that happened in our regions.

So please chill.

And contribute in a positive way.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Your dates /time is hugely off in light of Gen. Manekshaw's statements.

So I believe you or an honest general?

That's the million dollar question. Isn't it.

Prominent BDeshis have accepted in public that Agartala insurgency plan was real.

you all do not read it and come down and make clownish comments.

What I write is public knowledge.


Look you all know that I don't start a thread without doing my homework.

So it is now your turn to do your homework.

I rather not say more.

LOLLL, Fauji; you just better not say more!!!
You have just been spouting something or the other; with no substantive FACTS.
If you think that you can stand and deliver some statements like "A SERMON ON THE MOUNT", then you have no takers........

 

[scorpionx]

On January 18, matters became somewhat clearer. The Pakistan government informed the country that thirty-five individuals had beencharged with conspiracy to break up Pakistan and turn East Pakistan into an independent state with assistance from the Indian government. At the top of the list was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, president of the East Pakistan Awami League and in detention since May 1966 under the Defence of Pakistan Rules. The implication was clear: Mujib had spearheaded the conspiracy. In stark terms, one of the more prominent of Bengali politicians had engaged in subterfuge and conspiracy to destroy the unity of the state of Pakistan!

The trial of the Agartala case accused began in the Dhaka cantonment on June 19, 1968, before a special tribunal comprising Justice S.A. Rahman, Justice Mujibur Rahman Khan and Justice Maksumul Hakeem. The last two were Bengalis and Hakeem was later to be independent Bangladesh's ambassador abroad. A galaxy of lawyers was on hand to defend the accused. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's legal team was headed by the respected lawyer Abdus Salam Khan. On hand was Sir Thomas Williams, QC, from the United Kingdom. Sir Thomas was, however, compelled to go back because of his constant tailing by Pakistani intelligence. Ataur Rahman Khan, a former chief minister of East Pakistan, was defence counsel to his brother, the CSP officer Khan Shamsur Rahman. Among other lawyers for the defence was Khan Bahadur Mohammad Ismail. The one prominent legal presence for the prosecution was Manzur Quader, who had once served as foreign minister in Ayub Khan's government.

The proceedings of the trial were presented in detail through the print media, which perhaps was one particular reason why the Bengalis of East Pakistan began to develop the notion that the whole show was aimed at humiliating not just Mujib but also an entire people. Such feelings gained ground when quite a few government witnesses turned hostile and told the tribunal that they had been physically and psychologically tortured into becoming approvers in the case. And then came the death in custody of one accused, Sergeant Zahurul Haq, on February 15, 1969.

With the country already seething in anger and with demands for Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's unconditional release rising in crescendo for him to take part in a round table conference called by President Ayub Khan, the Agartala case looked doomed. For a while, the idea of Mujib going to the Rawalpindi talks on parole was bandied about, until Mujib decided to ask for a withdrawal of the case and the unconditional release of all detainees. But all this was in early 1969, when Ayub Khan faced problems on the West Pakistan front as well. Having imprisoned Khan Abdul Wali Khan and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in November 1968, he was now on the back foot trying to have them freed without any loss to his dignity.

The case that changed history

@FaujHistorian;

Sam Manekshaw came to know about Indira's decision on 29th April'1971. If you have link to prove that Indians were training MuktiBahini from much before that,I will happily accept it and will show you the white flag.Thank you.

 

[airuah]

Chalo Ji

You just pushed your donkey in to the village well.

Killed your donkey and poisoned the well.

What is that makes posters like you (who are otherwise educated) to keep the eyes closed and ears shut.

Even Bengalis proudly claim and INdians generals like Mankeshaw claim that they pushed insurgents to create a law and order situation.

Not only that

Mankeshaw said that Pak army routed the insurgents by Dec 71 and Indira asked Indian army to attack.


So read your own history

instead of spreading constipated conspiracy theories.

Thank you

I do not contest the fact that India did push the insurgents in....all i am saying is that your actions resulted in an unrest in east pakistan which resulted in people migrating/ running into India in huge numbers which we were not able to handle so we armed them and sent them back turning a refugee problem into an oppertunity.but the fact still remains that the insurgents were east pakistani's and not Indian. It was Pakistans crack down of a political unrest that Resulted in all the events that followed giving India an opportunity

 

[INDIC]

India pushed insurgents in the states of Hyderabad and Junagadh because base populations were majority Hindus (or non-Muslims).

What insurgents are you talking about? Did anyone tell you about Razakars otherwise all Sarkari school studied Pakistanis claims that Hyderabad was the land of milk and honey before integration in India.

India pushed insurgents in the states of Hyderabad and Junagadh because base populations were majority Hindus (or non-Muslims).

This was followed by INdian army going in to demolish the princely states.


Pakistan did the same with the princely states of Kashmir in 1948.


So compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Here are the chronology of events and see who started this tradition.

September 1947:- The Pakistan created for Muslims tried to integrate Hindu majority Junagadh in Pakistan.
October 1947:- Pakistan invades Kashmir
March 1948:- Pakistan integrates Kalat after a military action
September 1948:- Hyderabad was integrated in India.

India was only interested in territories with territorial continuity unlike Pakistan was interested in territories which wasn't contiguous with Pakistan.

 

[scorpionx]

@FaujHistorian

If you are talking about the fragments of EBR getting support from the BSF in early '71 then I am wrong in understanding your posts. But the formation of Mukti Bahini,the so called insurgents didn't take place much before March and Indian Army took control in May. This is what I knew so far. Thank you and peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

On January 18, matters became somewhat clearer. The Pakistan government informed the country that thirty-five individuals had beencharged with conspiracy to break up Pakistan and turn East Pakistan into an independent state with assistance from the Indian government. At the top of the list was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, president of the East Pakistan Awami League and in detention since May 1966 under the Defence of Pakistan Rules. The implication was clear: Mujib had spearheaded the conspiracy. In stark terms, one of the more prominent of Bengali politicians had engaged in subterfuge and conspiracy to destroy the unity of the state of Pakistan!

The trial of the Agartala case accused began in the Dhaka cantonment on June 19, 1968, before a special tribunal comprising Justice S.A. Rahman, Justice Mujibur Rahman Khan and Justice Maksumul Hakeem. The last two were Bengalis and Hakeem was later to be independent Bangladesh's ambassador abroad. A galaxy of lawyers was on hand to defend the accused. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's legal team was headed by the respected lawyer Abdus Salam Khan. On hand was Sir Thomas Williams, QC, from the United Kingdom. Sir Thomas was, however, compelled to go back because of his constant tailing by Pakistani intelligence. Ataur Rahman Khan, a former chief minister of East Pakistan, was defence counsel to his brother, the CSP officer Khan Shamsur Rahman. Among other lawyers for the defence was Khan Bahadur Mohammad Ismail. The one prominent legal presence for the prosecution was Manzur Quader, who had once served as foreign minister in Ayub Khan's government.

The proceedings of the trial were presented in detail through the print media, which perhaps was one particular reason why the Bengalis of East Pakistan began to develop the notion that the whole show was aimed at humiliating not just Mujib but also an entire people. Such feelings gained ground when quite a few government witnesses turned hostile and told the tribunal that they had been physically and psychologically tortured into becoming approvers in the case. And then came the death in custody of one accused, Sergeant Zahurul Haq, on February 15, 1969.

With the country already seething in anger and with demands for Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's unconditional release rising in crescendo for him to take part in a round table conference called by President Ayub Khan, the Agartala case looked doomed. For a while, the idea of Mujib going to the Rawalpindi talks on parole was bandied about, until Mujib decided to ask for a withdrawal of the case and the unconditional release of all detainees. But all this was in early 1969, when Ayub Khan faced problems on the West Pakistan front as well. Having imprisoned Khan Abdul Wali Khan and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in November 1968, he was now on the back foot trying to have them freed without any loss to his dignity.

The case that changed history

@FaujHistorian;

Sam Manekshaw came to know about Indira's decision on 29th April'1971. If you have link to prove that Indians were training MuktiBahini from much before that,I will happily accept it and will show you the white flag.Thank you.

====================================================

Confession by conspirators

In 2010, and on the anniversary of the withdrawal on 22 February 2011, surviving conspirator and Deputy Speaker of the Parliament Shawkat Ali confessed to the parliament at a point of order that the charges read out to them were accurate, stating that they formed a Shangram Parishad under Sheikh Mujib for the secession of East Pakistan.
====================================================



in Wiki too.

How come you all are stuck in 1971 based info,

While we have so much more available in 2013?

Perhaps the result of idol worshipping that is so common between Indians and Pakistanis,

that they cannot even imagine disrespecting their idol.


See going to temple and paying respect is way less of a negative thing known as idolatry

The real problem is

When make our idols and worship them, like idol of BDesh that we utterly refuse to see the things after 1971.


peace

 

[Jade]

1971 is not India's fault.

It was Pakistan that instigated the partition of their own country

1. By declaring Urdu has a national language overlooking sizeable Bengali population.
2. Deliberate under-represention of Bengalies in the army.
3. Overlooking electoral victory of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in 1971.
4. Conducting operation search light that resulted in 10 million refugees and the displacement of 30 million people

The war was started on 26th March 1971 by Pakistan Army by killing,raping and lynching innocent Bengalis resulting in 1000's of deaths and rapes.

India entered into the scene on 3 December 1971 after Indira sensed that war could spread into India, and Bangladesh achieved independence on 16 Dec 1971.

The independence of Bangladeshi proved two things

1. Nations formed on religion are flukes. (Perhaps Pakistan is the only country that was formed based on religion)
2. Culture and regionalism proved to be stronger than religion.

 

[FaujHistorian]

1971 is not India's fault.

It was Pakistan that instigated the partition of their own country

1. By declaring Urdu has a national language overlooking sizeable Bengali population.
2. Deliberate under-represention of Bengalies in the army.
3. Overlooking electoral victory of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in 1971.
4. Conducting operation search light that resulted in 10 million refugees and the displacement of 30 million people

The war was started on 26th March 1971 by Pakistan Army by killing,raping and lynching innocent Bengalis resulting in 1000's of deaths and rapes.

India entered into the scene on 3 December 1971 after Indira sensed that war could spread into India, and Bangladesh achieved independence on 16 Dec 1971.

The independence of Bangladeshi proved two things

1. Nations formed on religion are flukes. (Perhaps Pakistan is the only country that was formed based on religion)
2. Culture and regionalism proved to be stronger than religion.

1. Suggestion of common language was from Jinnah in one of his first speeches. Once he realized there is political reaction, the suggestions/recommendation was taken back. From late 40s all the way to 1971, Bangla was one of the two official languages.


As I say, you all are living in 40s and 50s

Move forward to 2013 and wake up please.


2. Army representation in 1971 was dramatic improvement from 47, AND Huge improvement from 1900s.

I don't know why people continue doing this $tupid of a comparison in the age of specialization, in 2013 AD.

Now tell me, if Benglore becomes the hub of Tech, is that because South Indians excel in Tech, or
it is a conspiracy against my cousins in Bihar and UP.

hahahaha


ahahahaha


If you know much about armies, then please treat modern soldier as a professional person just like a Techie, and not some Sarkari affirmative action.


As I said, you all read 5th grade govt school history book, copy and paste from ignorant media and come cut and paste your ignorance.

Please learn a bit and avoid cut and paster that is devoid of your OWN thinking and your OWN analysis.


Thank you.

 

[Jade]

1. Suggestion of common language was from Jinnah in one of his first speeches. Once he realized there is political reaction, the suggestions/recommendation was taken back. From late 40s all the way to 1971, Bangla was one of the two official languages.


As I say, you all are living in 40s and 50s

Move forward to 2013 and wake up please.


2. Army representation in 1971 was dramatic improvement from 47, AND Huge improvement from 1900s.

This is so $tupid of a comparison.

Now tell me, if Benglore becomes the hub of Tech, is that because South Indians excel in Tech, or
it is a conspiracy against my cousins in Bihar and UP.

hahahaha


ahahahaha




As I said, you all read 5th grade govt school history book, copy and paste from ignorant media and come cut and paste your ignorance.

Please learn a bit and avoid cut and paster that is devoid of your OWN thinking and your OWN analysis.


Thank you.

You are missing a point here.

An external force cannot instigate independence movements.

Second, by recognizing Urdu as a sole national language, you people have put forward a point that implies that Bengali culture is second class to the Urdu culture. (India took a good step by not having any language as national language). After all language is one of the most important aspects of culture.

Third, large scale genocide on Bangalies proved that Pakistani army was indeed under represented by Bangalies . May be army representation in 1971 was 'improvement' from 47, but that was not enough.

Last, Bangladesh was formed in 1971. So you should think the circumstances of 1971 and not of 2013. History is written living virtually in history.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are missing a point here.

by recognizing Urdu as a sole national language, you people have put forward a point that implies that Bengali culture is second class to the Urdu culture. .

you keep on talking about something that happened in 48 for a very short time.

Was quickly cancelled and Bangla was official / recognized language.

What's wrong with your historical analysis.

That even when shown the reality

you keep on repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating.

Either tell me that Bangla was forced out for 30 years or even 20 or even 10 or even 5 years. then you may have a leg to stand on.

Otherwise

it is just regurgitating old hateful one liners.


peace

 

[Ajatashatru]

Indian push of 60,000 insurgents followed by an attack on E. Pakistan back in 1971 was no better than

bunch of hijackers destroying Twin Towers
or
Beardo Mullahs attack on civilians in Mumbai.

The only thing that can be compared to 9/11 and 26/11 was the mass killings and rapes done by West Pakistanis in then East Pakistan.

 

[illusion8]

1. Suggestion of common language was from Jinnah in one of his first speeches. Once he realized there is political reaction, the suggestions/recommendation was taken back. From late 40s all the way to 1971, Bangla was one of the two official languages.


As I say, you all are living in 40s and 50s

Move forward to 2013 and wake up please.


2. Army representation in 1971 was dramatic improvement from 47, AND Huge improvement from 1900s.

This is so $tupid of a comparison.

Now tell me, if Benglore becomes the hub of Tech, is that because South Indians excel in Tech, or
it is a conspiracy against my cousins in Bihar and UP.

hahahaha


ahahahaha




As I said, you all read 5th grade govt school history book, copy and paste from ignorant media and come cut and paste your ignorance.

Please learn a bit and avoid cut and paster that is devoid of your OWN thinking and your OWN analysis.


Thank you.

Creation of Pakistan was a conspiracy and a crude hand of fate brought on to the people of the Sub continent in the first place. TNT is a joke but very much alive in Pakistan - Sunni's cannot co exist with any other Muslim sect or someone with a different culture - the Afghans r@pe you and are the bulwark of your proxy militant army and your armed forces and you cannot do jack against them hence you tolerate them).

The whole of the 65 years - India has not aspired for an inch of space that was cruelly disintegrated from it in 1947 while Pakistan's core existence is based on territorial aspirations against it's parent country.

Pakistani army was a formidable force (British Indian army majorly consisted of Muslims from erstwhile Pakistan and all the ceato and sento agreements that Pakistan entered into serving its white masters who made Pakistan possible in the first place) compared to a nascent Indian army. The overconfidence of the Pakistani elite army who estimated that the Indians where no match to them (1/10 marde momins ratio) was an indigestion factor that riled every Pakistani general for the last few decades - this in turn resulted in various adventurism's that the Marde momin generals of Pakistan foisted on Indian forces aka the adventurism's of 48, 65, 71 and 99.

The defeat of 71 was the most heart wrenching aspect that India foisted on the great marde momin army the result of which is still evident and the average Pakistani is not able to digest till date.

Proxy war and the application of it was taught by Pakistan to India when they tried their stunts first in Kashmir then in India's north east and later with the khalistani's. Sadly they were not successful, the reason being (the father is always greater than the illegitimate son) , India if and when (and as per the 180 million Pakistani's) adopts a proxy war then the results get achieved in a few years.

The marde momins still cannot fathom the rapid developments of the Indian forces, which always goes against their perceived idea of greatness of the marde momins compared to the lowly mal nourished and vegetarian Hindu and this factor is again indigestible for the great marde momin hence the advent of the Islamic nooklear bum that will destroy India and will kill every Hindu.

The pain that the lowly vegetarian Hindu bestowed on the marde momin in 1971 and all the wars till date is clearly visible on the faces of every marde momin who cannot fathom for one second how in the world is it possible.

An average Pakistani still clings on and prays to his god almighty that India should disintegrate one day for the sin that it showed the great marde momin army its place in the true scheme of things.

The @ss burning is quite evident and we take joy in that - the chasm - as an Indian, I promis will only grow wider. Pakistan as an entity is not even in our scheme of things and we know that it riles the marde momins no end.

The only advice I would part for the marde momins is that we have moved on and look at Pakistan as a nuisance value - it is time that you start taking care of your internal matters because by all intents and purposes the marde momins are not capable of taking care of their own cr@p.

 

[Jade]

you keep on talking about something that happened in 48 for a very short time.

Was quickly cancelled and Bangla was official / recognized language.

What's wrong with your historical analysis.

That even when shown the reality

you keep on repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating.

Either tell me that Bangla was forced out for 30 years or even 20 or even 10 or even 5 years. then you may have a leg to stand on.

Otherwise

it is just regurgitating old hateful one liners.


peace

I am saying Urdu/Bangalie issue is just one. As you know there were a chain of events that lead to the formation of BD ending with West Pakistanis not recognizing the electoral mandate of 1970 given by East Pakistanis. That was the last nail in the coffin.

Anyway, let me ask you some questions here. Why do Pakistanis forget the injustices committed on Bangalies and conveniently blame India? Why did west Pakistanis never made an attempt to reach out to east Pakistanis or try to address their grievances - this was odd given that at that time Pakistan was a young country? Why did a new country (Pakistan) that was formed just 25 years ago was broken into two pieces(Pakistan and Bangladesh)

Pakistanis need to introspect a lot. I am seeing similar circumstances brewing again in Pakistan now.