What if PAF had no Thunder?

[Informant]

Stick to JF-17, then go for 5th gen maybe in 2025.

 

[duhastmish]

Then come to my toilet you would get what u want



oh yes !!why dont u add F22 in your fancy list of yours

as if the money would be coming from your's father in law's pocket to buy those & pakistan wouldnt have to a pay a penny

CHEERS

Then come to my toilet you would get what u want



oh yes !!why dont u add F22 in your fancy list of yours

as if the money would be coming from your's father in law's pocket to buy those & pakistan wouldnt have to a pay a penny

CHEERS

Yes dearu will pay for it. She is busy doing something or I woulda coulda ask for more details.
As for list Pakistan do have f16 and better pilots than india . They always have option of older version of American jets. And European will sell to anybody with money.

 

[Luftwaffe]

PAF would have tried best to upgrade Mirages, F-7s whatever juice or room is left in them and stick to the policy of "our airspace is secure" dingyaan as usual, PAF had been saying that since early 90s and we all know how it turned out.

Why I said that is because I keep on repeating PAF tried every aircraft, had cash and went for inferior F-7s. You don't try out Tornadoes and M2K for nothing.

 

[Manticore]

 

[Zabaniyah]

Then join typhoon 's star strek forum

there would be even more interesting similiar kind of discussion on rafale

you would even forget that thread

CHEERS

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

 

[Basel]

What input would you ask from S. Korea for JF-17 when the whole Aircraft is spinoff F-16 in assistance with Lockheed Martin with 80% US components. What is FA-50, it is essentially an armed version of T-50 that can carry verity A2A/A2G weapons. Have you even compared specs on both Aircraft.

It not just about a plane from South Korea, its about getting tech from them, today they may need assistance from west and US specially but the way they are absorbing tech and evolving it, they will be very good to be defense partners with advance tech which we lacks.

 

[Luftwaffe]

It not just about a plane from South Korea, its about getting tech from them, today they may need assistance from west and US specially but the way they are absorbing tech and evolving it, they will be very good to be defense partners with advance tech which we lacks.

Would not it be better to absorb Chinese tech first that we haven't even touched yet before asking others, Tech comes from the same source it is the type of components and quality that matter and depends on human mind to improve it thus even Chinese tech could be improved greatly and efficiently the only thing lacking is Funds. Lastly so far F-16s, F-15s, T-50 are all from same source US I have yet to witness S. Koreans indigenous technologies making their way to an Advance Aircraft or the current inventory, KF-X is a long shot it might get cancelled in favor of F-35 that's the way it is or else US is heavy influenced upon them all spares or modernization of future F-16s, F-15s or even T-50/FA-50 could be suspended, that's why never put your eggs in same basket S. Koreans did, I am skeptical of KAI KF-X, it may never materialize or again US might assist them.

 

[Basel]

Would not it be better to absorb Chinese tech first that we haven't even touched yet before asking others, Tech comes from the same source it is the type of components and quality that matter and depends on human mind to improve it thus even Chinese tech could be improved greatly and efficiently the only thing lacking is Funds. Lastly so far F-16s, F-15s, T-50 are all from same source US I have yet to witness S. Koreans indigenous technologies making their way to an Advance Aircraft or the current inventory, KF-X is a long shot it might get cancelled in favor of F-35 that's the way it is or else US is heavy influenced upon them all spares or modernization of future F-16s, F-15s or even T-50/FA-50 could be suspended, that's why never put your eggs in same basket S. Koreans did, I am skeptical of KAI KF-X, it may never materialize or again US might assist them.

You may be right, but China is behind in tech due to embargoes from west, therefore Pakistan must not put its eggs in one basket too. Depending too much on China is not good thing, and S. Korea is way advance in many areas but due to their reasons they don't use their tech for defense purpose same like Japan. Some of which you mentioned too.

Moreover, there were news that UAE and KSA are now developing some advance systems of avionics, can those be good for our JF-17s?

 

[帅的一匹]

Rafales are too costly to buy for pakistan.

No doubt if Pakistan buy it, It will be a cause of concern for India unlike JF 17.

JF17 shoot down F16 in the drill held by PAF, FYI.

 

[HariPrasad]

JF17 shoot down F16 in the drill held by PAF, FYI.

Calm down man, It will shoot down F 16 in PAF drill only.

 

[Ping]

JF-17 and J-10 will shoot down anything and everything in a PAF and PLAAF drills respectively. This is common knowledge. Coming to topic...

If PAF didnt have thunder and J-10 was still under testing, then it might have opted for the J-8II or the J-8III a Su-15 look alike. A decent BVR platform with larger nose cone size than even the J-10 let alone the JF-17, but poor dogfighting capability. F-7s and Mirages which are good in dogfights but don't have BVR capability would have complimented the J-8s perfectly. These 3 fighters commanded with the Chinese AWACS would have been a potent mix. This could also have prevented the PAF falling into the American Trap. It would have also made several purchases of the Chinese AWACS, instead of choosing the costlier Saab Erieye. The loss of the Erieyes to the rebels attack would have been less severe if the AWACS were chinese since Chinese AWACS are cheap and the pain of the loss would have been less.

 

[Abingdonboy]

All in all, the Thunder was a good buy by a cash-strapped nation such as Pakistan. Any other options would involve buying less (quantity) on more (quality).

in an ideal world the JF-17 isn't the plane any fighter jock would want to go to war with but it is certainly better than what it replaces (Mirage/F-7).

 

[Jungibaaz]

JF-17 is the best thing that ever happened to PAF.
It is ideal. No two ways about that fact.

In a non-JF-17 scenario, expect more F-16's which would have been ordered in good numbers in the mid to late 2000's and possible J-10 orders now. If not personally, I'd like to have seen the Gripen in PAF colours, but that is just my wishful thinking given that the PAF have taken SAAB on for AWACS, also I'm a big fan of the Gripen.

 

[Abingdonboy]

JF-17 is the best thing that ever happened to PAF.
It is ideal. No two ways about that fact.

In a non-JF-17 scenario, expect more F-16's which would have been ordered in good numbers in the mid to late 2000's and possible J-10 orders now. If not personally, I'd like to have seen the Gripen in PAF colours, but that is just my wishful thinking given that the PAF have taken SAAB on for AWACS, also I'm a big fan of the Gripen.

As always is the case with Pakistan:

 

[Jungibaaz]

As always is the case with Pakistan:

Look at the scenario I painted there, this was what would have been planned in the absence of the JF-17, this was back when we had good growth, political stability, little insurgency issues, no such energy crisis, great relations with the US, named a prominent ally (Major non-NATO ally), the west had once again opened it's doors to us. PAF had planned to procure F-16's in good numbers and showed interest, very real interest in the J-10.

But PAF plan their purchases based on payments to be made later. It's very unfortunate that Pakistan went from good to hell in a few years.

Take my projection how you will, the F-16 and maybe later the J-10 is what you would have got, that is almost non-negotiable. On the subject of money we can argue the numbers of these aircraft.