What happens after 23rd March, another marshall law? or not ?

[TankMan]

If you carefully examine, you may see my post wasn't an answer to that content of his post. If was to the content at the of the post I responded to......

In which case your answer was irrelevant to his post, which was this:

No, it really doesn't. Democracy starts when the nation is ready for such a system. It took the Brits hundreds of years to gain it, and even longer to get to where they are now.

If we're going to bring religion into this, why not just declare a Caliphate in Pakistan then? Or at least an Emirate?

You did not address whether or not a nation needs to be ready for Democracy or not, which was the main point he made in the post you quoted - instead you just lectured him about his own views, which was not needed as he had clarified them in post #23.

If you didn't read post #23 when you wrote your response, it's common courtesy if you admit a mistake and apologize to him for not reading his posts properly instead of just arguing with him for the sake of arguing.

But he can argue for himself if he wants to and I will not waste any more time arguing over someone else's post, so please don't quote me in a post about this matter.

Pardon me if I am missing something out but the conquest of Mecca was indeed the establishment of the Islamic rule. Now there were many things, as you have pointed out correctly, that were not prohibited right away such as alcohol consumption, even the interest-based transactions (only declared illegal during the last sermon). However, I see those prohibitions more like the evolution of moral values of the Arabs and not really as the establishment of democratic values. My friend if you read the history of Arabs (of-course you have read), it was a fierce tribal culture with all the good and bads that are associated with such a system. If Mohammed (PBUH) had not practiced democratic values from day one, the Arabs would have never accepted Islam in the first place, let alone the rule of Islam in Mecca. It was through that democratic system the Prophet (PBUH) manged to deal with the various clans who were literally killing and robbing each others for ages. The archangel Gabriel brought Allah's message to the Mohammed (PBUH) much latter whereas Mohammed (PBUH) had already established himself as a leader and visionary and an honest gentleman long before. Arabs used to listen to him and follow not because of the divine message he preached, but for his righteousness, kindness, tolerance, and forgiveness. Thats my two cents. I admit I might not have understood your point completely.

That clears it up, thank you for the detailed post. It wasn't a disagreement, just a misunderstanding - I admit I wasn't very clear in my points either.

So basically he followed democratic values since day one but did not directly impose them immediately. He caused (or sped up) the gradual evolution of values in Arab society and eventually it reached to the point of accepting both Islam and Democratic values.

 

[Viper0011.]

In which case your answer was irrelevant to his post, which was this:

You did not address whether or not a nation needs to be ready for Democracy or not, which was the main point he made in the post you quoted - instead you just lectured him about his own views, which was not needed as he had clarified them in post #23.

If you didn't read post #23 when you wrote your response, it's common courtesy if you admit a mistake and apologize to him for not reading his posts properly instead of just arguing with him for the sake of arguing..

If you see my post to him written about 15-20 minutes ago, I've already offered my apologies to him. He also needs to be a big boy and take criticism positively. I've been bashed to death on here but I've survived and managed to respond back with logic. He should do the same.

Democracy isn't something someone needs to be "Ready" for. Its like parents, do you expect or are ready or a father or prays while eating, sleeping, walking, talking? Or a father who drinks alcohol and beats up his kids??? NO, you don't get ready, these things just come. similarly, when a bunch of educated and peace loving people put a system together, like the founder of Pakistan did, he didn't have Marshall Law in mind for sure, as the destiny for this country.

Sadly the generals who imposed the Marshall law on the country, forced people to not be able to get their rights. This went on for majority of the 70 years of your country's life. So that, was like having a bad father, who abused his children and the children never understood what they were supposed to be. So they never could succeed in the world. Very common issue. But, if the first few leaders of Pakistan were all democratic, today, you'd be somewhere else. As instead of military, the focus would be the People.
The current government has only been in power for three years, take a look at how many amazing projects these guys have started, and what kind of Pakistan they'll leave behind, with electric shortages almost gone, educational system on par with the west through using advance educational techniques like the tablets, serious health footprint, Cardiology and Cancer center across the country, Motor Ways, Metro Buses for poor masses to travel in, billions in the savings account and about a 100 billion in foreign investment. This is form of a good dad, and they got voted in. So the nation is always ready to except the democratic system. The issue is, when someone can bring it

 

[Yazp]

marshal law in cancer for country

Marshall laws are the only reigns in which Pakistan has actually progressed. Unlike in this "Democratic" setup.
However I respect your anti-millitary dictatorship opinion :p

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

In Pakistan we had only one type of rule since 1951...

Dictatorship........
(some in uniform and some without)

 

[lasttry]

For the semi literates.

It is martial law .... not marshal law or marshmellow

 

[Yazp]

In Pakistan we had only one type of rule since 1951...

Dictatorship........
(some in uniform and some without)

We should purge this country by executing each and every big political figure and the Parliament + Judges (lets face it nobody is a good politician or a judge) by firing squads including the current government and have a strict and ruthless military dictatorship. Running Pakistan with a democracy is like trying to run a Petrol Mercedes S class on Diesel. It can move fast if you put Petrol in it but it won't start and will destroy its own engine if you try running it on diesel.

It is martial law .... not marshal law or marshmellow

You got all of us. Good one.

 

[TankMan]

Democracy isn't something someone needs to be "Ready" for.

So people don't need to know how to vote, how to see through politicians' lies and all that which comes as a package with Democracy?

The problem is that Democracy doesn't work as well when half the population is illiterate and has no idea what a vote even means.

Pakistan was, quite simply, unlucky. From border disputes to assassinations, wars and internal division since it's very beginning, it didn't really have a chance. Pakistan might not have survived at all if it was under a democracy during certain times: Democratic leaders make just as many mistakes, if not more, than Military Leaders do. And the people don't have much of a say after they choose their leaders either.

Sadly the generals who imposed the Marshall law on the country, forced people to not be able to get their rights. This went on for majority of the 70 years of your country's life. So that, was like having a bad father, who abused his children and the children never understood what they were supposed to be. So they never could succeed in the world. Very common issue. But, if the first few leaders of Pakistan were all democratic, today, you'd be somewhere else. As instead of military, the focus would be the People.

That is all your opinion. Many people believe, and have many legitimate reasons to believe, that Military leaders did more good for the country than they did bad and were overall better than Democratic leaders. I don't fully agree with them, but we have to admit that some of the biggest mistakes were made by 'Democratic' leaders (for example, ZAB and his countless mistakes).

The current government has only been in power for three years, take a look at how many amazing projects these guys have started, and what kind of Pakistan they'll leave behind, with electric shortages almost gone, educational system on par with the west through using advance educational techniques like the tablets, serious health footprint, Cardiology and Cancer center across the country, Motor Ways, Metro Buses for poor masses to travel in, billions in the savings account and about a 100 billion in foreign investment. This is form of a good dad, and they got voted in. So the nation is always ready to except the democratic system. The issue is, when someone can bring it

Anyone can start projects. The hard part is finishing them. And please don't mention 'advanced education techniques', 'tablets' and 'metro buses' when people don't have food to eat, it is an insult to those that suffer everywhere in Pakistan. First let them get basic education, then think about advanced.

The current government is no panacea, but I hope they succeed in whatever good they are doing and are planning to do.

 

[Viper0011.]

For the semi literates.

It is martial law .... not marshal law or marshmellow

I use the term Marshal law in terms of Marshal, as in a guy like Joe Shmoe's law. The only martial or supreme law is the law of the land, aka, the constitution. No Marshal, Joe or anyone can declare the 'martial law' of people. It's really Marshal law to me as it's enforced by a power hungry idiotic dictator!!

 

[syedali73]

So people don't need to know how to vote, how to see through politicians' lies and all that which comes as a package with Democracy?

Pakistan was, quite simply, unlucky. From border disputes to assassinations, wars and internal division since it's very beginning, it didn't really have a chance. Pakistan might not have survived at all if it was under a democracy during certain times: Democratic leaders make just as many mistakes, if not more, than Military Leaders do. And the people don't have much of a say after they choose their leaders either.

That is all your opinion. Many people believe, and have many legitimate reasons to believe, that Military leaders did more good for the country than they did bad and were overall better than Democratic leaders. I don't fully agree with them, but we have to admit that some of the biggest mistakes were made by 'Democratic' leaders (for example, ZAB and his countless mistakes).

Anyone can start projects. The hard part is finishing them. And please don't mention 'advanced education techniques', 'tablets' and 'metro buses' when people don't have food to eat, it is an insult to those that suffer everywhere in Pakistan. First let them get basic education, then think about advanced.

The current government is no panacea, but I hope they succeed in whatever good they are doing and are planning to do.

I am an academicians so could speak little about education. We need to give Pakistanis the education that is needed for them to earn good living an not for the damn sake of a degree. We need more and more vocational colleges that teach skills, from low to -high tech so that people could start their own businesses afterwards. Those who graduate from such schools should be provided with financial assistance and help them with establishing and expanding businesses. We need to scrap useless courses and degrees (Karachi University still has Department of Bengali, seriously!!!) that would take a person to nowhere. We need to bring about a good balance between male and female candidates and not like what we see today. Over 75% candidates are female and half or even more of those never enter into the workforce that effectively results in the loss of investment made into their training.

 

[Imran Khan]

Marshall laws are the only reigns in which Pakistan has actually progressed. Unlike in this "Democratic" setup.
However I respect your anti-millitary dictatorship opinion :p

progress ? lolzzz and why you forget marshal laws are those whom make apart pakistan ? marshal law is a drug you feel good in drugs but after drugs you are no where

 

[batmannow]

progress ? lolzzz and why you forget marshal laws are those whom make apart pakistan ? marshal law is a drug you feel good in drugs but after drugs you are no where

the master is back!
who told you it was marshal law which divided the country?
who was the one soughting 'udhar tum idhar hum' & who became the frist civilian marshal law adminstrator in pakistan , answer which will never able to deny is ZAB , the fountain of the democracy in pakistan ?
now, as declared by media & the internet warriors here, most of our political leaders are criminals ?
nawaz sharif & shabaz sharif (super money launderers & planners & killers in model town case )
Altaf hussain (terrorists = no proves needed) Lolzz
zardari (gang war creator, planver of his own wife, super money launderer, black mailer)
JI +JUIF , Abc ( religious terrorists sampthaizers , black mailers , working for somekind of independent Emirates where they can be come the rulers )
PTI ( only organisation with , all unorganised leadership )
We as a nation can't wait another 100 years in our fantasy world to eat the dam fruit of so called democracy , hoping that any above mentioned species will be able to bring any thing good this country?
situation , now is going to hit PPP +zardari the model who got caught on the airport with 5 hundred thousand dollors , was just horse carrying the money for rehman malik & she has already given up the names of the higher ups , then rehman malik in PPP ?
Once bieng hit, with proves PPP & ZARDARI will bring the details of the crouption of PMLN , who leadership is already booked in the model town massacre case, will about bring this house of cards to its ultimate end ?
If you really , are patriot who wants to see all criminals getting thier deserved justice , & pakistan getting back its looted money , from the accounts in forighen countries & their banks.
pls stop, supporting damocrazy which not only brought bloody terrorism , but it was used to cover up , the worst ever economic terrorism by the mentioned criminals stated above .
damocrazy no , damocrazy !
poor pakistanis , was jobs , security, financial help , clean drinking water, power, gas , & systematic fight against terrorism , & economic terrorism .
If a marshal law can provide them that, then I think there is no need of so , called Damocrazy in pakistan any more .
better we have grand professional fourm , with rotation in command in the military with a specific policy to follow for a certain time .

I am an academicians so could speak little about education. We need to give Pakistanis the education that is needed for them to earn good living an not for the damn sake of a degree. We need more and more vocational colleges that teach skills, from low to -high tech so that people could start their own businesses afterwards. Those who graduate from such schools should be provided with financial assistance and help them with establishing and expanding businesses. We need to scrap useless courses and degrees (Karachi University still has Department of Bengali, seriously!!!) that would take a person to nowhere. We need to bring about a good balance between male and female candidates and not like what we see today. Over 75% candidates are female and half or even more of those never enter into the workforce that effectively results in the loss of investment made into their training.

Sir,
my many apologies to you ,
pls come back to subject, the geniuses here has tried thier level best to derail the thread .

 

[Muqeet Sabir]

After 23rd march "Double Sawari" Khul jaye gi.. which is a most common problem faced by majority

 

[batmannow]

I use the term Marshal law in terms of Marshal, as in a guy like Joe Shmoe's law. The only martial or supreme law is the law of the land, aka, the constitution. No Marshal, Joe or anyone can declare the 'martial law' of people. It's really Marshal law to me as it's enforced by a power hungry idiotic dictator!!

& if we see our political leaders , in pakistan it looks like a medecine ?
for pakistan it means a man with a stick , or a batton to crush it on the criminals , which very much needed now .

After 23rd march "Double Sawari" Khul jaye gi.. which is a most common problem faced by majority

Don't worry, after that tank sawari bhi start ho jaygi, Muney !

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

As the reporter asked the Japanese ambassador to Pakistan in the early part of last decade ( the economy was booming---businesses were e good---everything looked fine ) " what do you think about Pakistan being successful". The ambassador replied never---the reporter was shocked---he asked why---the reply was---" Pakistan is travelling in the opposite direction to success ".

In order for a society to succeed----in needs to have Order----you enforce Order to enforce the rule of law---. Rule of law you need to to be applied to one and all----but how when your electorate system is deceptive by default.

In the U S ----a congressman or a senator have to reside in their constituency for a minimum of one year---and occupy the residence for a minimum number of days---declare the place as primary residence and have filed last years taxes---.

Now in Pakistan---Mr Zadari or Mr Sharif or anyone else can fight for a seat in the parliament from 2--3--4 different places on the same day---so the very basic fundamental of election to pursue democracy is basically fraudulent and deceptive---.

Senators can be elected out of their primary residence districts---.

So---how can this system ask for democracy---when at its core and at its foundations it is being deceptive---.

Then---simple as it is---this Pakistani road does no lead to democracy----. You don't need to teach the poor public how to vote---.

You need to force these rich people to not to manipulate the election process----.

 

[That Guy]

Well dude, if you want to leave the forum, that's obviously your own thing, I can't change your mind. Frankly speaking, it doesn't make sense. You are im'ing Horus and others, well, he may be a buddy of yours and he might ban all of us, but what good does it do to you? You should read the next part of my post a little carefully as it might help with something.

1) You are on an international forum. What that means, is you'll find a LOT of people from different cultures who don't think like you do, or like how you or Indians or others think inside their culture. I will give you my own example, I shoot straight, if you read my post, no one criticized you as a person. That would be wrong. But, some of your posts were what I mentioned that at times you are clueless as to how to respond to.
Remember, all of us are passionate about topics, sometime I write stuff that is dear to me, but not necessary for you. So for me to expect you'll know what I am talking about, it wrong. But, if you told me something and I flat out just refused to listen or even debate, than I am wrong. I should go do some research and see if I am wrong or if my understanding about something is wrong.
No one is right all the time. I am not, I've apologized to people on this very forum. And I think I've offended you, so please accept my apologies. Again, the criticize wasn't of you as a person. I am sure you are a wonderful individual like the rest of us made by God. But we are here debating and if we didn't have difference in opinion, than we wouldn't be here coloring pages after pages.
Every thread would have one topic and 10 responses saying "I Agree" and the thread would close. Take what I or others said with a grain of salt and try to get inside the skin of the message. Its not you, its just at times, it doesn't come out as you've done research when you respond and you are a TT so all the more reasons to research.

I had another TT who couldn't debate with me, but gave me a negative rating, instead of really debating and setting your position. So all this happens here. The last thing you want, is to take things personally.

You did NOT criticise, you insulted. This...

I agree with the bold part. I've dealt with this gentleman before and majority of the time I..........get clueless reading clueless posts (let's put it this way) !! It'd be nice for people to either at times learn from other, or have the open mindedness to go research something on their own, before getting into a silly head-on collision without having facts backing the debate up!

...Is not a valid criticism, it is an insult through and through. All you did was call me an idiot and said I don't do my research when I very clearly do. Don't try and turn this around to make me sound dumb.

You literally repeated my comments, and said you disagree with mine, I don't know how your sense of logic works. Either you have a reading comprehension, you didn't read my comment at all, and I doubt it's the former.

I do NOT accept your apology, as your "apology" is nothing but a condescending way to tell me that you don't actually mean it. When you attack another person's character, calling them clueless, you give up the right to call what you wrote a criticism. A back handed "apology" is what it is.

In democracy, religion is a personal choice. People's will to do what they want to, welfare, lifestyle, economy, right to free speech, right to a safer environment to live in, right to social / necessary services and safety is ensured.
I don't think there is ANY religion on this planet that says otherwise also. So religions also have democratic element in them. But, in a true democratic system, it is the PEOPLE who rule, and can worship whatever they want to in a peaceful manner ensuring others safety and rights, as well as their own.

You just reworded what I said, nothing more.

Chill out, you too @MastanKhan , Agree to disagree and move on. You take this forum as seriously as your feelings regarding your last burp.

Okay, I overreacted, I apologize, but when you get attacked for your title on a constant basis, you tend to lose patience. I admit I don't have much of a thick skin.

Also, do something about the spam, it's getting out of control.