What does being a liberal mean?

[WarFariX]

It's the other side of the same coin the likes of TTP etc are ...

could u make the sentence easier for me plz

 

[Verve]

could u make the sentence easier for me plz

TTP and Liberals are two faces of the same coin. Both want their versions of Islam implemented, and both are at extreme ends to each other on the scale.

 

[VCheng]

A true liberal never forces his views upon anyone else. If others see any good, they will follow him voluntarily, just like Muhammad PBUH convinced his followers, not by his sword, but by his behavior and conduct.

 

[Nefarious]

Being a liberal is to try and follow the teachings of the beloved prophet Muhammad, who was sent as kindness to ALL mankind, as the Quran itself testifies.

If Muhammad PBUH can pray for the people of Taif after what they did to him when he called them to the right path, who am I to get upset with people here?

Those who preach hate will fail. The Quran tells us so, and the life of Muhammad PBUH shows us so.

I understand where your coming from. Just don't see this pov very often. Just saying.

What you described above is like the ideal Muslim IMO, the prophets PBUH example is what we need to follow.

 

[VCheng]

I understand where your coming from. Just don't see this pov very often. Just saying.

What you described above is like the ideal Muslim IMO, the prophets PBUH example is what we need to follow.

I can only speak for myself. It is up to others what they make of it.

 

[AZMAT 9211]

Punjab was converted to Islam by sufi saints. does that mean that all Punjab is sufi?

This Wahabi fundementalist mindset sprung up a few decades after independence, it wasnt around when we were ruled by the British, the Sikhs, Hindus, etc.

Bro the mind of people of that is different from now.
Now people's think they know everything and what they know is right.this is the problem yar.
For some sufism is a taboo.
Haji shariat ullah brought wahabism from arabia to sub continent in 1818

 

[SQ8]

I don't know what definition of liberals you liberal defenders are using.

Liberal is:
willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

Going by that definition, a liberal person will respect and accept the throwing of parents in the care homes because of inconvenience of looking after them.

Beghairat is what we, muslims or other non-liberals, would label such people. But a liberal would RESPECT such actions and will shower no label of any kind on them.

Now then, also, by that definition above, what do you think would be the opinion of a liberal on orgies? A liberal will be totally fine with such acts, even if own family members are indulging in them, &/or even open to such ideas. That's a real liberal. Now ask yourself, are you a liberal!?

@haviZsultan If I decide to live my life and think the way prescribed by my Creator, do I become a radical?

It seems that famous pastime of confused so-called liberals is to label everyone radical who doesn't agree with them!



If one wants to be liberal, so be it, none can force them to be otherwise. However when you are living in a majority non-liberal society, what would be the wise thing to do: Force liberalism down their throat, or tell them that they have to accept your liberal views (no matter how morally wrong) or live your life peacefully with a majority who is not liberal? A liberal should respect their opinion and not try anything to piss them off.

The biggest issue is not liberalism or conservatism
Its the ignorance of the middle logical ground

The use of logic and constant evaluation of ideas and arguments

Ironically something that in religious form started out in Islam and spread out to Europe

Then muslims forgot all about it and now even the Traditional west is

 

[Hell hound]

The use of logic and constant evaluation of ideas and arguments

bro i want the exact same thing from our pakistani brothers. if the don't like the liberal tag that comes with it they can name it whatever they want

 

[SQ8]

bro i want the exact same thing from our pakistani brothers. if the don't like the liberal tag that comes with it they can name it whatever they want

That is not exactly liberalism either

At least not in modern context definition

Today's liberal ideals entail accepting a physically normal 55 year old man into a female toilet without any mental evaluation or otherwise just because he says he feels "female"

 

[Hell hound]

Today's liberal ideals entail accepting a physically normal 55 year old man into a female toilet without any mental evaluation or otherwise just because he says he feels "female"

god i hate those gender confused Apache-helicopters
well they have new name now.most of the west call them SJW.

 

[Verve]

The biggest issue is not liberalism or conservatism
Its the ignorance of the middle logical ground

The use of logic and constant evaluation of ideas and arguments

Ironically something that in religious form started out in Islam and spread out to Europe

Then muslims forgot all about it and now even the Traditional west is

Middle ground is where it all should be, fully agree, and clearly defined laws to be adhered to. The issue is that liberals want these laws to be put aside, and the conservatives want to misuse those laws. As said before, two faces of the same coin.

It started with 'moderate muslims', and now has mutated into 'liberal muslims'.

A true liberal never forces his views upon anyone else. If others see any good, they will follow him voluntarily

A true liberal doesn't insult others either nor makes accusations without proof. You have yet to say if Bhensa liberals were right in what they posted on their pages yet you were all over the Bhensa thread accusing the state for their disappearances.

Prophet S.A.W said to only make a statement about something that we have verified ourselves. Did you verify anything before you made those accusations? You call yourself a liberal yet you make all sorts of accusations without any proof.

 

[SQ8]

Middle ground is where it all should be, fully agree, and clearly defined laws to be adhered to. The issue is that liberals want these laws to be put aside, and the conservatives want to misuse those laws. As said before, two faces of the same coin.

It started with 'moderate muslims', and now has mutated into 'liberal muslims'.

When the microphone with loudspeaker first came out in British India
A whole majority of mullahs (who were the intellectual and moral ancestors of today's council of Islamic ideology) opposed it vehemently calling it haram and creating the usual fuss that is their bread and butter.
Apparently the problem they created was based on it not being the human voice and a created voice, and since the human voice was standard since forever for Muslims(as if they ever heard of some brilliant acoustic engineering that various architects and engineers of mosques throughout the golden age of Islam did) it was haram to do otherwise.

It created an issue in the then muslim state of hyderabad. However, when it came to the attention of the head of the department of Islamic studies at osmania uni in hyderabad who was an educated and had an actual command of Quran and Sunnah, he simply argued that since all the loudspeaker was doing was replicating the human voice via a demonstrated mechanism- there was nothing haram in it nor a base for it. The fatwa was issued and was ratified by other known scholars after which the the state acted upon it.

He used science, logic and Islamic history to push his point.
Most of those people then, and many of those we see on CII and other prominent madressa heads would have trouble even recounting the correlation of history that relates to the selection of the human voice as the call to prayer.
Let alone be well versed in both Quran & Hadiath

What happens today?

 

[Verve]

When the microphone with loudspeaker first came out in British India
A whole majority of mullahs (who were the intellectual and moral ancestors of today's council of Islamic ideology) opposed it vehemently calling it haram and creating the usual fuss that is their bread and butter.
Apparently the problem they created was based on it not being the human voice and a created voice, and since the human voice was standard since forever for Muslims(as if they ever heard of some brilliant acoustic engineering that various architects and engineers of mosques throughout the golden age of Islam did) it was haram to do otherwise.

It created an issue in the then muslim state of hyderabad. However, when it came to the attention of the head of the department of Islamic studies at osmania uni in hyderabad who was an educated and had an actual command of Quran and Sunnah, he simply argued that since all the loudspeaker was doing was replicating the human voice via a demonstrated mechanism- there was nothing haram in it nor a base for it. The fatwa was issued and was ratified by other known scholars after which the the state acted upon it.

He used science, logic and Islamic history to push his point.
Most of those people then, and many of those we see on CII and other prominent madressa heads would have trouble even recounting the correlation of history that relates to the selection of the human voice as the call to prayer.
Let alone be well versed in both Quran & Hadiath

What happens today?

Ulama (العلماء) in the arabic language stands for scientist, expert, scholar, savant etc. Also, in the Qur'an this term is used for all people who are scientists, experts and have remarkable knowledge in a specific field.

Definition of Ulama is just confined to Islamic Studies scholars, and has been one of the primary reason for the decline of muslims.

It is this problem of 'we know better' by the current day Ulama that has given rise to these liberals (rebels) - equal and opposite kinda reaction. I am not sure if this is a trend or not, but a lot of such liberals are from the field of sciences ... I know of a few doctors and scientists who have turned in sheer rebellion against these ulamas. The higher the level of education, more anti-preacher and more liberal they become.

 

[TruthHurtz]

The word "liberal" originates from the ancient Sanskrit word "cuck."

 

[VCheng]

A true liberal doesn't insult others either nor makes accusations without proof. You have yet to say if Bhensa liberals were right in what they posted on their pages yet you were all over the Bhensa thread accusing the state for their disappearances.

Prophet S.A.W said to only make a statement about something that we have verified ourselves. Did you verify anything before you made those accusations? You call yourself a liberal yet you make all sorts of accusations without any proof.

Please show me any post where I have accused anyone over the Bhensa saga. I have consistently maintained that whatever they did deserves proper legal process and punishment if found guilty according to the applicable law, not illegal abductions, whoever the abductors might be, unknown at this point. If they are found guilty of blasphemy, then by all means hang them if that is what the law specifies as punishment. But do it properly. And find and punish the abductors too, whoever they are, after a fair investigation.

It is you who are accusing me in your post above of something which I have not done.