What does being a liberal mean?

[The Sandman]

Look you cannot take Ulema away from Islam even though many worked for their own power base. In Islam the role of a learned person is there, doesn't have to be a typical 'Maulvi' figure but a man who has learnt and understood Quraan, Hadees as well as other non religious subjects. We as muslims created a clergy whereas we should have created wise and learned Idlamic scholars. Nowhere in Islam a mufti or Aalim has to be a figure that we have created specially in South Asia. Likewise we didn't create true liberals, we created an equally ugly abomination with no roots of liberalism. As much as we think these two stand opposite to each other actually thry are hand in hand in polarising our society and are actually against the common people. In Pakistan cry for civil rights, civil supremacy, rule of law, religious tolerance and protection of minorities have become hijacked to secular 'selected' activism. A pseudo liberal won't blast a bomb but one day block the execution of the the one who did by running a campaign, before we know it the whole judicial system is hijacked. This is just one of the many examples. Ranging from nlocking what is necessary to morphing into campaigns that border on hate speech to mocking of established religious beliefs.

Agreed we've 2 types of extremists with out a doubt (people like jibran nasir are nothing but pure hypocrites) i am damn sure there are good honest molvi's too but there numbers are very few same goes for the liberals but the question is what do we do now? what is the middle way who will lead us to that middle way? @Hell hound @Kaptaan

 

[sady]

As Pakistanis we should've been worried about much more important issues like corruption, poverty, terrorism, extremism, injustice, the hatred that we've created for each other, the intolerance Pakistani muslims have for muslims from other sects (i don't even understand why even have sects in Islam? my Prophet was just a Muslim) i wish our ulema's had worked on these issues they could've done so much for Pakistan but no they refused to do that instead they started worrying about ''defending Islam because (NauzbillAh) it's under attack'' the only thing today our ulema's care about is women's how to hide them how suppress them things like valentines which isn't hurting anyone, burkha, issuing fatwas, death threats and creating conspiracy theories against those who slightly differ from their pov it's really sad and heart breaking to see how much damage these guys have done.

We have to differentiate between what is 'there' and what 'should be'.What we have are single track religious zealots with tunnel vision ( not all) what 'should be' there is broad visioned equally versed in Islam and its jurisprudence. It is sane to work hard to acheive latter than saying lets get rid of all of them altogether.

 

[AZMAT 9211]

QUOTE="The Sandman, post: 9199738, member: 171410"]As Pakistanis we should've been worried about much more important issues like corruption, poverty, terrorism, extremism, injustice, the hatred that we've created for each other, the intolerance Pakistani muslims have for muslims from other sects (i don't even understand why even have sects in Islam? my Prophet was just a Muslim) i wish our ulema's had worked on these issues they could've done so much for Pakistan but no they refused to do that instead they started worrying about ''defending Islam because (NauzbillAh) it's under attack'' the only thing today our ulema's care about is women's how to hide them how suppress them things like valentines which isn't hurting anyone, burkha, issuing fatwas, death threats and creating conspiracy theories against those who slightly differ from their pov it's really sad and heart breaking to see how much damage these guys have done.[/QUOTE]
Don't u think ISLAM is under attack.
Dont u think that valentine's day is destroying our youth u know what is going to happen on this day.
Hijab is wajib bro

Kuch ni kr sakatay to intezar karo.

 

[The Sandman]

1) Expected answer yes they're being funded by foreign agencies but the question is ''who'' is brainwashing them and who is sympathized with them until 2014? many still do @Hell hound didn't ''some'' people used to say TTP are our naraz brothers?
2) Don't tell me you don't know what i am talking about every molvi sitting in a mosque has created his own version of Islam.
3) Mumtaz Qadri.
4) No not lot's of but very few of them.
5) That is also wrong if you want to know about Islam than do your own research read Quran with translations and tafsir read Hadeeths cross check it with Quran confirm it from multiple sources before making up your mind.
6) That's because you're not saying anything which they don't like as soon as you do that you will be labeled as a western jewish agent this is has happened with me not 1 or 2 times but countless times on this very forum.
@AZMAT 9211

Don't u think ISLAM is under attack.

NO i don't think so and if it is than it is extremist molvis who are doing that not an outsider.

Dont u think that valentine's day is destroying our youth u know what is going to happen on this day.
Hijab is wajib bro

No i think corruption, poverty, lack of education, jobs, extremist molvis are destroying our youth.
Yes Hijab is Burkha isn't.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Unfortunately

• I love to listen to music (I am still a good person even with no beard)
  
• I love to interact with different religions
  
• I love to go to school and have desire my children one day would go get educated in education that makes them better person over all (Both for work and some focus on education)
• I also fully enjoy Pants / Shirts , Suit and tie and find it appropriate dress code
• Similary find it is ideal for Kids to socialize in school so they have better communication when they become grown ups
  
• Desire to be close to my faith I have the Book and Hadith books "real copies" to read , why should there be a middle man in middle ?
• If I am interested to bring my future wife a gift or treat her with dinner or anything why should I need to have this middle man to "explain" to me what I can buy her or not ?

When I see two groups of Shia or Sunni arguing with each other , I realize how far these folks have come from the faith and simplest teaching of "You shall not kill another Muslim in cold blood"

The reality is that our faith has been hijacked by the "Middle" men who have wrote their own books and logic and complicated reconciliation

I do understand Arabic fully and know exactly the type of language Sunni Arabs use against Iranains

I rather enjoy some songs !!! then deal with the middle "Men"

Don't what the Saudi Arabia's version of Islam in Pakistan

All across centuries Muslims have played music and enjoyed music just too much evidence of music

 

[The Sandman]

Kuch ni kr sakatay to intezar karo.

Kiska?

 

[sady]

Agreed we've 2 types of extremists with out a doubt (people like jibran nasir are nothing but pure hypocrites) i am damn sure there are good honest molvi's too but there numbers are very few same goes for the liberals but the question is what do we do now? what is the middle way who will lead us to that middle way? @Hell hound @Kaptaan

I believe majority of our population is quite tolerant and liberal. We have few ills in our society that has crept in not because of our religion but cultural influences. Minorities are according to my assessment poorly treated more because of their racial origins rather than religion barring few odd lynching cases. Treating women as property is not at all my Nabi's SAW Sunnah, not educating them and asking for compulsory dowry, enmities on land disputes and killing incessantly are few of our cultural ills. Sectarianism and extremism are the only religious ills and fortunately a very small portion of our society suffers from it by large we are quite tolerant. Meaningful education is the only way forward together with honest, sincere and agenda free media campaigns are necessary. Instead of trying to replace it with 'western culture' only because the money paid for the campaign was from foreign NGOs such progs should be locally owned. Rather than promoting 'sexual freedom' to women or preaching 'LGBT' rights which is a total alien concept, progs targeting drug abuse, dowry, pomp n show in marriages, education particularly female, mayernal and infant health, religious and ethnic tolerance etc should be initiated by Gov and local NGOs.

 

[AZMAT 9211]

[QUOTE"The Sandman, post: 9199807, member: 171410"]Kiska?[/QUOTE]
IMAM MAHDI ka.

Unfortunately

• I love to listen to music (I am still a good person even with no beard)
  
• I love to interact with different religions
  
• I love to go to school and have desire my children one day would go get educated in education that makes them better person over all (Both for work and some focus on education)
• I also fully enjoy Pants / Shirts , Suit and tie and find it appropriate dress code
• Similary find it is ideal for Kids to socialize in school so they have better communication when they become grown ups
• Desire to be close to my faith I have the Book and Hadith books "real copies" to read , why should there be a middle man in middle ?
• If I am interesting to bring my future wife a gift or treat her with dinner or anything why should I need to have this middle man to "explain" to me what I can buy her or not ?

When I see two groups of Shia or Sunni arguing with each other , I realize how far these folks have come from the faith and simplest teaching of "You shall not kill another Muslim in cold blood"

The reality is that our faith has been hijacked by the "Middle" men who have wrote their own books and logic and complicated reconciliation

I do understand Arabic fully and know exactly the type of language Sunni Arabs use against Iranains

I rather enjoy some songs !!! then deal with the middle "Men"

You are making no sense just nonsense nonsense.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If we go with the rules created by Saudis and Iranian then we should just put ourselves in a solitary confinement

• I will go order a burger from McDonalds
• Listen to some good quality music
• And then gona have a blast watching sports event
• Spend time in Gym build body shody

Going to school in Saudia is same as solitary confinement once I left that system I realized what a hell hole that was, even when I was in Pakistani system it was heavily influenced by segregation code. Becasue the rule of nation were applied to the international school

I still remember my KG school (Pakistan) when I used to have co-ed school when I went to segregatted school I was like WTF is is this ? Why did they moved all the girls out it was the most unnatural thing I faced while I was stuck in that system

I was not freed from that stupid system till I moved to highschool/uni in western schools

LIBERAL idealogy is almost perfect for me

Liberal ideas generally are quite compatible with faith , you have option to practice your faith privately and not shove your ideas by force onto others
that is what I absolutely love about that idealogy

Just as example , recent ban on Muslims in USA , you see Liberals standing up for Muslims rigtht , demonstration and solidarity

• Is there a demonstration in Saudi Arabia against the ban of Muslims what kind of Leader country is that can't even have a demonstration for Muslims?
  
• Or that other Clan we call Iran , they can't get along with Saudi Arabia, kute ki dum teri ki teri rehti hai. Dunya idhar se udhar hojay , iran will not sit with Saudia on table

What is the point of having all these "SCHOLARS" if they can't even fix the sacterian problem ?


Dear honorable Scholars , with all your (free wealth you collected from devotees) and (Government) can you sit down on your *** and try to sort out the problem faced between Iran / Saudia ?

Scholars: Oh ye to ... hamare bus ki baat nahi, this is beyond our abilities , but beta your hair style is a bit long , can you trim it a little ?

 

[Hell hound]

what is the middle way who will lead us to that middle way?

why do you think you need someone to lead you? when you can do it yourself. these middle man are always going to abuse their power so it is better to not give it to them in the first place.

1) Expected answer yes they're being funded by foreign agencies but the question is ''who'' is brainwashing them and who is sympathized with them until 2014? many still do @Hell hound didn't ''some'' people used to say TTP are our naraz brothers?

those guys still do but now are in hibernation mode waiting for the operation to end

 

[The Sandman]

why do you think you need someone to lead you? when you can do it yourself. these middle man are always going to abuse their power so it is better to not give it to them in the first place.

What i meant to say was we need a leader to get rid of every type of extremism.

 

[Hell hound]

What i meant to say was we need a leader to get rid of every type of extremism.

jesi awam wesay hukamran.
need a leader like that then first change your majority's thought process to produce and accept the leader like that,there is no shortcut here you have to change at grass root level to produce a guy like that

 

[The Sandman]

jesi awam wesay hukamran.
need a leader like that then first change your majorities thought process to produce and accept the leader like that

Wo to hone se rha it means there will just be a stalemate between 2 groups aur beech wale will keep getting crushed and confused.

 

[Hell hound]

Wo to hone se rha it means there will just be a stalemate between 2 groups aur beech wale will keep getting crushed and confused.

kyu honey say raha bro.honey ko sab ho sakta hay be change you want to see in others.
ajj nahi 20 saal bad bhi result mill jaye to bhi isay kamyabi samjho these reforms take time

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Appreciation is another thing and following is another.
Peoples could understand and appreciate sufism but following it u have to change ur self


Yar read karlo ac hi.
Mobile pay sahi say ni ho raha sorry bro.
And abi to chsd firkay hsin 72 banain gay bhai

Punjab was converted to Islam by sufi saints. does that mean that all of Punjab is sufi?

This Wahabi fundementalist mindset sprung up a few decades after independence, it wasnt around when we were ruled by the British, the Sikhs, Hindus, etc.