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What does being a liberal mean?

For speaking out against an outdated law?

besides, Allah is the only one responsible for deeming whether the governors actions were right or wrong. No practising and faithful Muslim would brutally kill another person over what they perceive to be 'anti-Islamic'; Islam is quite clear on this:

Outdated law???????
What do you by outdated law?

295c is not an ordinary law.
I think in my country there are many outdated laws but he only sees 295c as an black law.
Why?
Leave everything to ALLAH.
ok.
What do a person do when he see someone is raping her sister,daughter,wife.
He leave that to ALLAH?
Someone is killing his father,son,etc.
Will he do nothing and leave that to ALLAH.
Will he wait until an angel comes to save your family members.
295c is an outdated law cause it stops people to talk against my PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.W.A.W.
And what about the law which stops us from talk against court.
And the name ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTANI is also outdated we should change it also in republic of PAKISTANI.
@Kash_Ninja

Abu jehal wasn't killed by an angel in GAHZWA E BADAR.
He was killed by 2 little SAHABA R.A.
Yazeed was killed by a girl.
What about waleed bin mugahira.
And the munafiq who was killed by HAZRAT UMAR FAROOQ R.A.
A Muslim (in reality a munafiq ) come with a yahode to my PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.W.A.W.
HAZOOR S.A.W.A.W give the decision in yahode favor.
Munafiq was not pleased with the decision he said i will go to UMAR FAROOQ R.A.
He and the yahde go to HAZRAT UMAR R.A COURT.
And there yahode said your PROPHET already give the decision in my favor.
At the spot HAZRAT UMAR R.A killed the munafiq.
(Its is a summary which i write in my word.)
Did he do wrong?

Umar R.A nay tan say judaa kar deya tha sir jiska
Wo apna hai ya paraya HAZOOR S.A.W.A.W jantay hain.

@Kash_Ninja
 
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Outdated law???????
What do you by outdated law?

The Pakistani Blasphemy Law originated from the 1860 British Penal Code, which contained a few clauses that protected the interests of diverse religious groups in undivided India. From 1984 to 2004, 5,000 cases of blasphemy were registered in Pakistan and 964 people were charged and accused of blasphemy; 479 Muslims, 340 Ahmadis, 119 Christians, 14 Hindus and 10 others. Thirty-two people charged with blasphemy had been killed extra-judicially. Eighty-six percent of all the cases were reported in Punjab.

295c is not an ordinary law.
I think in my country there are many outdated laws but he only sees 295c as an black law.
Why?

295-C: use of derogatory remarks etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet: – who ever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by any imputation innuendo, or insinuation, directly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life and shall also be liable for fine.

Yes I agree, people shouldn't make fun of our Prophet, but this law becomes very easily abused:

"Christians are the main targets by the fundamentalist and religious political parties. The law is being used for forced conversion, forcibly taking over the lands and business of Christians, hindering the preaching of Christian faith and for settling personal scores, rivalries and vengeance. Nevertheless, these laws have proved to be the most injurious weapon of active religious persecution by the extremists with encouragement from the government.


Muslims on the other hand also face these problems but only those who are being declared as non-Muslims by the majority known as Sunni. The other sects of Muslims who are declared as non-Muslims are Ahmedis, Shias, Bahais, Zakris, etc. and they also face problem from the majority. They are also accused and charged with blasphemy to settle personal disputes."


Now, this law in particular is not my only problem with the legal system, and im not sure what your trying to imply by saying that I only have a problem with this law?

What do a person do when he see someone is raping her sister,daughter,wife.
He leave that to ALLAH?
Someone is killing his father,son,etc.
Will he do nothing and leave that to ALLAH.

Islam has rules about what happens if somebody is caught raping or murdering. I personally wouldn't blame anybody killing the person responsible for committing such horrible crimes, but in Islam if something like this takes place it goes before 'court' and the perpetrator is punished accordingly.

Again, If I were in that position then I would be outraged and take my own justice, however we also have to consider that someone with more malicious intentions might just invent a scenario entirely to try and frame the person. This is why we even have a legal system and why punishment isn't just given out on the basis of one testimony, evidence has to be compiled and submitted before the judge who punishes accordingly.

Will he wait until an angel comes to save your family members.

Dont be foolish, if you have issues with Islamic teachings then that's not my problem.

295c is an outdated law cause it stops people to talk against my PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.W.A.W.
And what about the law which stops us from talk against court.


Yeah, for every 2 people that actually commit the crime, 25 are unfairly accused.

This is clearly an unnecessary law, and its exploited by greedy people who use it for personal gain. The statistics are clear on this since there is a massive number of people being accused of blasphemy, and a small number of people found guilty. meanwhile throughout the process their names and family are dragged through the mud, and they are constantly under the threat of being killed extrajudicially.

And the name ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTANI is also outdated we should change it also in republic of PAKISTANI.

Speaking out against a law which results in innocent people dying or being unfairly accused is not anti-Islamic. Nowhere in the Quran is this kind of punishment proscribed, and its just a remanent of old British laws that were amended with unnecessary clauses after fundamentalists pressurised Gen.Zia to implement them.

Abu jehal wasn't killed by an angel in GAHZWA E BADAR.

He was killed while actively campaigning to destroy the Muslims. There is no comparison to draw between poor labourers accused with little evidence, versus a warlord who spent his existence trying to kill the prophet and trying to erase the Muslims.

What about waleed bin mugahira.

He mocked the prophet again and again, but did the Prophet ever strike him or attempt to take his life?

In fact the Quran says this:

"Proclaim what you have been ordered and turn away from the polytheists. We will surely protect you against the mockers who put another god beside Allah. In the end they will know." (Sura Al-Hijr 15: 94)

"In the end they will know."

As in, when they meet their end and are put before Allah, they will be given their rightful punishment.


The Munafiq were treasonous, again there is no comparison between the very early days of Islam to the modern day Islamic republic of Pakistan.

First of all, to be a 'munafiq' was akin to treason. In Pakistan it isnt applicable.

Even today in most countries committing treason results in the death penalty, that cant be compared to innocent people being accused of blasphemy.

The signs of the munafiq are the following:

According to Sahih al-Bukhari,

Narrated Abu Hurairah:

The prophet Muhammad said: "The signs of a hypocrite are three:

  1. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.
  2. Whenever he promises, he always breaks it (his promise).
  3. If you trust him, he proves to be dishonest. (If you keep something as a trust with him, he will not return it.)"
    — Sahih al-Bukhari[6]
Narrated 'Abd Allah ibn Omar Ibn Al-Khattab.

Again, no comparison to any of the cases in modern-day Pakistan.

At the spot HAZRAT UMAR R.A killed the munafiq.

If this is the same story that im thinking of, its unreliable and has been declared unreliable.


 
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A liberal is a what by default?

According to my understanding of liberal, a liberal is blessed and intelligent creation of ALLAH.

My understanding of liberal is different from what people calling themselves liberal do and pose.

I had pasted a link to a book in my very first post on this topic, I don't know if you have read this but if you feel like please do give it a reading, here is an extract from it to show what I mean by being liberal.

The very life of Muhammad (pbuh) is clear evidence of the fact that in spite of his highly revered position amongst his fellow beings, he always maintained an image of equality between himself and his companions. He consulted them on every matter of importance. He gave them freedom of expression and feelings of independence to such a high degree that it is still undreamt of in the modern age of socalled democracy. After consultation with his companions, he accepted many of their views which differed from his own but were based on reason. His companions could even dare to ask him if a particular view expressed by him was based on Divine Guidance or on his own deliberations. Such was the congenial atmosphere of freedom and independence created by the Messenger for the nourishment of human personality amongst his followers: and the loss of this put the Muslim nation into degradation.

https://www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/Conspiracies.pdf (I couldn't find a better online version)

My point is that one doesn't need to look at or review Islam through the prism of liberalism (a concept that is man made, just like all the sects!).

Islam brought respect for humanity, it advocated basic human rights and freedom, Islam is the religion that abolished slavery, Islam is the religion that advocated equality between humans. Liberties and rights which dictators, capitalists had snatched from humanity. The man made prism of liberalism was invented latter.

Liberals do not believe in state religion, would you say that a muslim majority state should not take any laws from the Quran that are clearly stated and without any ambiguity? Did Prophet S.A.W make laws for Madina state with or without references to Quran?

An Islamic state is not to be run by the whims and wishes of its administrators.

Quran repeatedly says to 'be men possessed of minds', and my understanding of that is to be open minded, logical, analytical, and rational (there is more but that should cover it) whilst being within the guidelines and parameters explicitly defined by Allah to be the right path. I don't consider it however to mean liberal that opens the doors of defiance against Allah.

The majority Muslims of today ....... are they really open minded, logical, analytical? If they are they won't believe in something that contradicts Quran. They are orthodox who hold hear say that was invented centuries after passing away of Messenger (Peace be upon him) dear and above Quran. That is hardly being logical or analytical.
 
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Objection:

And I am !!! Some people do not punish the woman that he (peace and blessings be upon him) said littering was him (the Prophet) the sense in the context of the current situation.

.Then When practice not punish proud to be punished events. Cheeky. Not throwing garbage woman sentenced to death by a special order was not only rather satm. You did not allow the killing of Abdullah bin Umar Farooq While the demand for their frznd ajazt him. Similarly, Abu Lahab and his wife hndh. But if the Makkah Declaration satm was not a penalty. Then Gabriel came to the Taif prior permission from the penalty .But you not only forbidden, but also pray for them. Today the people of Taif Muslims.

Reply:

Few things define essential .........

Blasphemy is a crime in a state legally or not?

There are two separate issues

  1. The first is how you treat in the early days of Islam and a beginner is going to create an Islamic society since the early days of the religion and the times you have any messengers greeting was not strong because God taken away from all such events are related to the early blows ....
  2. The other has come to establish the Islamic state and the law of the law is the responsibility of this state in the condition that it works with the security force, the honor of the ruler of the state of Muslims and their religious leaders when state ...
Some historical references with the interpretation of the Quran verse

.)uإn Nكsua أymnهm from the aهdهm utanua in and dynكm fqtlua أymة abode إnهm La Ayman lهm lalهm yntهun top 12 tqtlun quma nكsua أymnهm uهmua bإkraj Messenger uهm bdءuكm first mrة أtksunهm fallه أhq tksuه Indeed كntm believers in God bأydyكm 13 qtluهm yazbهm uykzهm uynsrكm maghdube uysf Presidents of believers qlubهm uytub 14 uyzهb Rage Allah Allah, Alim Hakim Ali from ysaء 15 (.... Altubة

"And if they break their oaths after their covenant, and taunt your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief. Indeed, these types of people so they do not desist. Did ye not fight people who have decided to break their oaths aurrsulﷺku extraction and the first time you start. What Allah has more right that you fear if you are believers you should fear Him. Fight them, and they will punish your hands away will help you against and thigh them will degrade and will heal believers breasts and anger thigh hearts of whom repentance the amazing grace and Allah is knowing and Wise. "

The order with a description in words utanua dynكm in and has been the Rabbi

Ka'b bin Malik narrated:

"Jewish poet Ka'b ibn Ashraf and Muhammad was allhﷺky Sean discourse. And enveloping apﷺky against the disbelievers of Quraish in his poetry. Messenger came allhﷺmdynh let the people of Medina were mixed. The Messenger of Allah perform Medina came when apﷺny all reform plans frmaya.ayk man his father is Muslim pagans. No one would believe it kabhayy polytheists and the Prophet of blessed prmsrkyn and yhudan Medina, the Prophet, and you were dealing with his disciples to severe persecution al apﷺaur Muslim patient and the patient in order to pass.

Word of Allah Almighty revealed about them. "

And about those in Allah revealed this to "a lot of the book you want, if they turn you into unbelievers after you have faith the envy of your hearts, then that clear right for them has therefore forgive and overlook till Allah brings his command. Indeed Allah is all over everything. "

When Ka'b bin Ashraf Muhammad allhﷺaur Muslims did not cease to persecute the Prophet ordered that Saad bin Muaz do not give force to his death.

"(Evidence alnbuة llbyhqy: 3/197 uallfz Him, Abu Dawood (3000) the rate Fath al-Tirmidhi RE: 9/96)

The Ibn Abi Hatim Al-Razi has narrated this zydsymktsra:

"Prophet Muhammad and his disciples were on their patient suffering forgiveness of Allah polytheists and Jews. Allah said: "And you certainly those who have been given the Book before you and others who these people are persecuted and hear the painful things." Osama said: Messenger of Allah forgiveness from they were of God had commanded, even about God gave them permission. "

(Ibn Abi Hatim al-Razi: 3/834 (4618) Tafsir Ibn Kathir: 2/160)

Ibn Kathir writes: uهza certificates valid certificate is valid.

After the Tafsir Ibn Kathir even leave God fyهm words: "balqtl fqtl I Therefore, the inevitable from killing my snadyd death» "until God allowed to kill advise them was to kill those of the chiefs, he was murdered. "

In Saheeh Muslim, even the permission of Allah's Messenger fyهm even gave them permission, means to fight.

* The Ibn Hajar writes: "qulه (until permission is fyhm) E E ftrك per qtalhm Amnesty anهm»

"I leave in God even fyهm means meant to fight and give forgiveness to them." (Fath: 10/20)

*syk Islam Ansari amount Zakaria writes:

"Allah the Prophet allowed the Jews to fight the disbelievers and polytheists abandoned the pardon and forgiveness of the Prophet with them." (Sahih Bukhari gifted Bari bi Sharh: 5/48)

The strongest reason for the death of poems meant to honor the Holy Prophet in drydh right and against insults and your satire hy.syk Islam Ibn Taymiyyah has detailed in his book Word alsarm almslul Ali satm Messenger. Ka'b bin Ashraf killer Mohammad bin Muslim Prophet and his companions, may Allah be pleased because the tribe of the dew, the tribe of Khazraj, the idea that the tribe one of the enemy and honor blasphemy She then Allah to perky and drydh combustion achieved prosperity and opportunity to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf, we have also supposed that God killed another bold and drydh combustion Abu Rafi prophecy of dignity and sublimity of daryn either, so your service I am also authorized the killing of Abu Rafi cahy.ap allowed.

Abdullah bin atyk, Mas'ud ibn Sinan, Abdullah bin Anees, Abu Qatada al-Harith ibn left for Rabi and kzaay the cell adhere to the murder and Abdullah atyk made them rich and has urged that a child Do not kill him and the woman. (Summarize life almstfyﷺaz Maulana Mohammad Idrees Kandhalwi)

It is fatal to enter into the fortress of the damned in Hell upon a wonderful plan and could ask the Prophet.

Similarly

Umair ibn Umayya had a sister and she would get hurt by amyrjb about the Prophet Muhammad and Prophet reproached allhﷺky devotion and she was promiscuous. He lifted a sword came to her sister, it killed the war sword. Up his son, he cries out to us and said, Who killed him? What we were krqtl peace and order? Fathers and mothers and fathers of this nation are idolatrous. He said han.apﷺny «ulm» So why did you kill him, he said: "إnهa Kant throw twzyny» "It would bother me about you." So he sent the sons of ﷺnyas I asked them and they made a killer. Apﷺny then told him and declared his blood in vain, he said: We hear and we obey. "

(Almajm Kabir 17/64 (124), assembly Majmau: 6/398 (10570), Asad algabة: 4/273, alإsabة: 4/590)

ایک بات سمجھنا انتہائی ضروری ہے کے تمام اقوام میں اپنی مذہبی سیاسی سماجی اور ثقافتی علامات کی حفاظت کے لیے قانون سازی کی جاتی ہے ……دور جدید میں بھی ایسی قانون سازی ہر ملک میں موجود ہے ہتک عزت کا قانون دنیا کی ہر مملکت میں لاگو according serious offense which legal basis the figures leave humiliate any person ............ What do you want to go strongly insults the dignity of prophets, and you move it to endure cold and bellies آخر کار نبی کی ناموس ایک مذاق بن کر رہ جاوے ….اگر ایسا ہی رویہ تاریخ اسلامی میں اختیار کیا جاتا تو آج دنیا میں اسلام اور الله کے رسول کی کوئی وقعت ہی باقی نہ رہتی ……

The leading apostle of the personality of God and the world that is good is aware that the religious devotion of Muslims associated with the apostle personality of their faith in God and their love of the Muslim faith today of their resources and their governments in the Muslim world are a clear indication that they have no power ......

In order to apply the beginning of the period when Islam is incredible power was the farthest thing from the wisdom and knowledge ...

Abdullah bin sentenced Why not?

Abdullah bin Salul or because of Abdullah not to allow the killing of Abu was that he was a hypocrite and a Muslim filling and then ever when open insults are not the same offense Messenger of Allah Muhammad So how do you not greet it with irrelevant ...

Conquering sword satmyn at Mecca and historical truth, forgiveness is able to forgive all sins from just those that actually appear before the messengers greeting turned against God rule before in your ... ....

Contempt is so serious that the law of the Prophet ﷺaslamy committed woman can not forgive. The Prophet had committed a foul in which the Prophet about two women besides the two maids of Ibn ktl, ordered the killing of such a slave leading a favorite service of a blind man in Medina What they said was that they had two sons like pearls, Holy committed blasphemy and swearing in honor of the Prophet. The blind man to stop him, but he does not stop. One night he was swearing that he had torn his stomach. When the matter was brought before the Prophet of Allah said: O Prophet! Bear witness that no ransom or revenge of the blood. (Abu Dawud, feminine)

When asked Umar peers about Blind Assassin Prophet Muhammad look visually has done a great job, but He said, do not tell aamy (visually), Basir and sight say that his vision and zeal of faith life is lent.

When a cursed Asma bint Marwan and his perky killed a man jealous of his relatives He said people! If you want to go visit someone who is going to see Allah and His Messenger, to help and support my jansarku. The jealous man Omair bin Adi tribe of their leaders some time to kill this cursed when he asked them that you've killed? He said blataml, but if you do the crime, you sense that he will put all his life. (Alsarm)

Anurﷺ before he has migrated to Medina was an old man of one hundred and twenty years shrnur name was Abu afk. He expressed deep hostility. Kuuh enticing the people against the Prophet, who wrote poems to express his bdbatny. When Harith bin Suwayd been sentenced to death bkyn condemned the abuses which the Prophet wrote a poem. When the Prophet heard his abuse him and said:

'Who will you end this vicious, wicked man.

Salem bin Omair offered their services. Whereas he went to Abu afk though he was asleep. Salem was called khbu the sword in his liver. Abu afk screamed and was late. (Book almgazy, lluaqdy, srya kill afk Abbey, 163/1)

......... I ordered the death of the Prophet's life and the events were where the Messenger of Allah and ask Allah gstakun tribute to their death.

Which he forgive himself:

Another theory is that they figure invoking sense of honor get it right to forgive your own perky but safety as followers blasphemy is our duty and possible to fulfill this responsibility we have an obligation to try.

The Prophet Imam of the Prophet's time God had committed the physical order because they would not be automatically processed, but the Messenger of Allah is the greeting of the meaning of God is a clear example of invoking not forgive gstakan in the incident Available

Abdullah bin mentioned about the murder of Sarh al-Saad bin Abi was the victory of the day when it is tradition Waqas the Messenger of Allah peace to all the people except for four men and two women took their name, so Ibn Abi Sarh were covered with Uthman ibn Affan. When the Messenger of Allah called people to swear allegiance to Uthman Ibn Abi Sarh to stand before you and said, 'O Messenger of Allah! عبد اللہ سے بیعت کریں،آپ نے اپنا سر اُٹھاکر اس کی طرف دیکھا اور بیعت نہ کی،تین بار ایسا ہی کیا ۔تین بار کے بعد بیعت کرلی پھر اپنے صحابہ سے مخاطب ہوکر فرمایا کہ کیا تم میں کوئی بھی عقلمند نہیں ہے جو اُٹھتا اوراس کو مار دیتاکہ جب اس نے مجھے دیکھا کہ میں نے اپنا ہاتھ اس کی بیعت سے کھینچ لیا اور بیعت نہ کی۔صحابہ نے عرض کیا: اے اللہ کے رسول !ہمیں آپ کے دل کا حال معلوم نہیں تھا،اگر آپ آنکھ سے اشارہ you do (if we do not kill). Prophet Muhammad said, not worthy to point out that he curankhun. (Sunan Abu Dawud: 2334)

Second, history tells us that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon the Chair and subsequent periods were not ever forgive gstakan Messenger ......... ..

اب سوال یہ پیدا ہوتا ہے کہ کیا الله کے رسول کے بعد تمام اصحاب معاذاللہ ، الله کے رسول صل الله علیہ وسلم کے حکم سے پھر کر اسلام سے دور ہوگئے تھے جو کہ روافض کا عقیدہ ہے ……..اور کیا چودہ سو سال سے the nation has understood this problem and today I understand the true teachings of Islam like a true innovation ......

Do not worry about the amount of digging the roots of Islam. Some fools will be that it has decided that she will not make the problem of the Muslim honor the issue of insulting the Prophet Muhammad but to the whole make this regard the Muslims "Necho" that Muslims live acts there is stigma.


@Kash_Ninja
( i copied from an site i think helps in ending some of your objection.)



اعتراضات
1۔قانون توہین رسالت موجود ہے، ممتاز قادری کو عدالت سے رجوع کرنا چاہئے تھا
توہین رسالت کیس کی موجودہ بحث میں سب سے ذیادہ جو اعتراض اٹھایا گیا ہے وہ یہ ہے کہ ممتاز قادری کو اپنے تئیں یہ سنگین اقدام نہیں کرنا چاہیے تھا ، she should go to court.
Comment:

As Qadri Salman Taseer is a killing in this regard may be more than one opinion and the law is not the only solution in Islam that a Muslim up will kill any outright insolent, an Islamic state and in the presence of the law called it criminal offense, he has always been discouraged. However, they demanded the court to refer the Asia condemned for blasphemy, Salman Taseer Christ live in heaven thoughts and delusions. First, you should know them so far registered 986 cases of blasphemy law in Pakistan from the date of implementation of 1992, but not convicted of blasphemy by a contempt husky.dusry today is the fact that in Pakistan mlaunun committing blasphemy renders a darling of kukafranh forces of the eye, can not stand in the support given by the troupe special protocol and the armies of disbelief bdbktun formats and their families kuaysayy missionary institutions and Western Non-governmental organizations have sponsored and supported by lyyaalmy their security forces. Asia Asia statements for Christ Vatican City Pope case, prayer and pressure on Pakistan was a few years ago.
جہاں تک سلمان تاثیر کی ممکنہ براہ ِ راست توہین رسالت اور اس کی سزا کا تعلق ہے تو یہ بھی یادر ہنا چاہئے کہ پاکستان کے دستور کی دفعہ 248 کی رو سے صدر، گورنر اور وزرا کو عدالتی باز پرس سےاستثنا حاصل ہے جو شریعت ِاسلامیہ کے is totally against. When holiest figure in Islam Syed be upon Muhammad and his beloved daughter Fatima Fatima and rightly guided caliphs no exception to judicial account then get the privilege of being above the law on how a sub ruler of Muslims?
Detail can be viewed from this link
http://www.dawn.com/news/587928/plea-for-case-against-governor-rejected-2
If that is the state of our courts would punish them , but when it is hard to stay firm on their decisions to the high courts have pressure on them. In this regard is clear Mercy in 1994 and Salamat Masih's case, that after death the court to set the stages of appeal in case the accelerator and immediately after they were sent abroad to Germany are not left room for further legal development. Before he became a liar in the case of a prisoner who see the country prepare to send him out after he was sentenced to death by courts made it all his work in prison. When the law are killed within the prison society is weakened to such an extent.
According to the history of the subcontinent is always the law was put into the hands blasphemer to death during gyrmujugy law or ineffective. Lack of effectiveness of this law eliminated a blasphemer Muslim population is forced to herself. God knows the secret of being damned to hell begins Lahore or Karachi Paul to be killed by the din of Nathu Ram, the killing of the ineffective rule of the law when behind the recent assassination of Salman Taseer in similar circumstances tha.aur is the main reason. یہی بات قانون توہین رسالت جناب محمد اسمٰعیل قریشی ایڈووکیٹ نے اپنی کتاب میں بھی لکھی:
”قانون توہین رسالت ان تمام لوگوں کی زندگی کے تحفظ کی ضمانت ہے جن کے خلاف فردِ جرم ثابت نہ ہو۔ورنہ ماضی میں بھی مسلمان سرفروشوں نے ایسے موقعوں پر Messenger gstakan law at hand and brought to justice. The advantage of having this law in force in Pakistan. This would be considered a criminal penalty case comes under the jurisdiction of the courts of the hands of people gaju all the facts and evidence, comparisons of review brings crime subject to any court after the sentence will. "
Mr. Qureshi has made happy the matter after legislative Pakistan's side, the fact is that Pakistan act openly is open, fun and high courts publicly traded insults Here is a funny nose of the wax which were everywhere to be reversed hy.ayn NRO judgment is a known fact. Salman Taseer's assassination, were interviewed on Capital Talk PML-Q MNA Akram, many also say that their uncle, so his bodyguards were killed by thy.uqas Akram said that the ruling MN after years of judicial process, the court acquitted all the criminals, and we can not convict his uncle's killers. It may be increased to Pakistan and wailing justice system?
Our goal in this whole debate is not to support each other to take up law (primary method of dealing with Prophet is to bring him to justice), but our goal is to identify the shortcomings in the legal entities whose because people are forced to do so on their own, Taseer's murder is proof of ineffective metaphor of distrust of the judicial system and the public. If I had the power to balance Pakistan's system they would develop jaundice on the guidance of Islam actually today Qadri that does not offer quite the need to take in hand and aslamyan Pakistan satman Messenger authority approved the straight path to the justice system do.
When the law does not exist, legal immunity acquired or serious crime still closed door pardoned for victims and having undue delay the public law that such a sensitive issue blasphemy cases take at hand we are forced. Ghazi knowledge and dialogue before, religion was no hope of rope Dad martyr to the father and his father had been warned not to kill, but an aide satm Messenger News Messenger Rajpal's, which published "Rangeela Rasool, the damned law lytyhuyyjhnm at hand. Bulgaria and Iqbal in Lahore on this occasion is an important event in our national history led the Muslims of the subcontinent. Quaid, who was the lawyer of the peak, killed them knowledge kyaqdam he called for the killing of Defense. Quaid had once appeared and beyond Ghazi Ilm Din defense case in the Lahore High Court.

کچھ لوگ یہ کہتے ہیں کہ کوئی جیسی مرضی گستاخی کرلے ، عدالتیں اور نظام انصاف گھٹیا ترین سطح پر ہو، رذالت کی آخری حدیں بھی پار کر چکا ہو تب بھی کسی پر مقدمہ چلائے بغیر گستاخ کو قتل نہیں کرنا چاہیے۔ کچھ لوگ اسکا یہ جواز پیش کرتے ہیں کہ دیوبندی، بریلوی، شیعہ، اہل حدیث ایک دوسرے پر گستاخی اور کفر کے فتوے لگاتے ہیں۔ اس طرح کی اجازت سے یہ بھی اک دوسرے کو قتل کرنا شروع کردیں گے ۔
پہلے تو یہ جان لیں کہ یہ شریعت کا حکم نہیں ہے کہ گستاخی کو ہر حال میں برداشت کیا جائے ، دور نبوی سے ایسے کئی واقعات کی مثالیں ملتی ہیں جن میں لوگوں نے حضور ﷺ کی اجازت کے بغیر اپنے طور پر شاتم کو سزا دی لیکن انکا محاسبہ نہیں کیا گیا ، اسکے علاوہ بھی بہت سے معاملات ایسے بھی ہیں جہاں اللہ، اللہ کے رسول صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم اور اسلامی قانون نے عام شہریوں کو بھی “قانون ہاتھ میں لینے” کا اختیار دیا ہے۔ احادیث سے کچھ مثالیں حاضر ہیں:
1: حضرت ابو ھریرہ رضی اللہ عنہ سے روایت ہے کہ آپ علیہ السلام نے فرمایا:”جس شخص نے کسی قوم کے گھر میں جھانکا اور انہوں نے اس کی آنکھ پھوڑ دی تو اس کی انکھ ضائع ہے، اس کا کوئی قصاص نہیں”(رواہ ابو داؤد وسندہ صحیح)
2: جناب رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا:”جو شخص اپنے مال کی حفاظت کرتا ہوا مارا جائے وہ شھید ہے، جو شخص اپنی جان کی حفاظت کرتا ہوا مارا جائے وہ شھید ہے، جو شخص اپنے دین کی حفاظت کرتا ہوا مارا جائے وہ شھید ہے، جو شخص اپنے گھر والوں کی حفاظت کرتا ہوا مارا جائے وہ شھید ہے”(بخاری، جامع الصغیر)
جب محض مال کی خاظر ہتھیار اٹھانے، لڑنے اور مرنے مارنے کی اجازت ہے تو ناموس محمد عربی کیا مال سے بھی گئی گذری چیز ہے؟؟؟ جب اپنے گھر میں جھانکنے والے کی آنکھ پھوڑ دینے پر کوئی گناہ نہیں تو رحمت دوعالم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی عزت کی کیا ہماری عورتوں جتنی بھی وقعت نہیں؟؟ احادیث و فقہ میں اس قسم کی بہت سی مثالیں مل سکتی ہیں، سمجھنے اور ماننے والے کے لئے اتنی بھی کافی ہیں۔
جہاں تک دوسری بات کہ دیوبندی بریلوی ایک دوسرے کو قتل کرنا شروع کردیں گے’ یہ ایک غیر حقیقی اور فرضی دعوی ہے ۔یہ مسالک دو صدیوں سے اس خطے میں موجود ہیں ، پہلے دن سے ان میں یہ اختلافات موجود ہیں اور توہین رسالت کا قانون بھی شروع دن سے غیر موثر ہے، لیکن کبھی کسی فرقے کی طرف سے مخالف فرقے والوں کو گستاخ قرار دینے سے اس فرقے کی عوام نے ان کے واجب قتل ہونے کا سوچا تک نہیں، نا آج تک کسی نے اس بنیاد پر مخالف فرقے کے کسی شخص کو قتل کیا ۔ اس گستاخی کے فتوے کا مطلب گمراہ اور سخت گناہ گار ہی لیا جاتا ہے، اس لیے کبھی بات مسجد اور محافل کے بائیکاٹ سے بڑی نہیں ۔ دیوبندی، بریلوی، اہلحدیث ، حنفی، شافعی، مالکی، حنبلی اختلافات کتنا ہی شدید کیوں نہ ہو جائے ، مخالف قوتیں ان میں سے ایک کو دوسرے کے مقابل بھی لاکھڑا کر دیں’ اعلیٰ فہم رکھنے والے حضرات اسے عارضی یاوقتی حالات کا مسئلہ سمجھ کر صرف نظر کر لیتے ہیں۔ تو تکار اور غلط فہمی کا شکار نہیں ہو جاتے، جہاں بات ناموس رسالت اور ختم نبوت کی آتی ہے ،انکے آپس کے تنازع ختم ہوجاتے ہیں ، یہ ایک ہی صف میں ہاتھ باندھے نظر آتے ہیں ، ممتاز قادری کا جنازہ کل پرسوں کی مثال ہے، اس جنازے میں نا کوئی بریلوی تھا اور نا دیوبندی ، نا سلفی نا مودودی، سب محمد ﷺ کے امتی تھے ۔ عشق رسول ﷺکی لڑی نے انھیں ایک ساتھ پرو دیا تھا۔۔
اگر فرقے کی بنیاد پر مقدمات بڑھ بھی جائیں تو اس قانون کا یہ سقم ایک چھوٹے سے اضافی قانون کے ذریعے دور کیا جاسکتا ہے۔ وہ یہ توہین رسالت کی ایف آئی آر کاٹنے کےلیے کسی ایسی کمیٹی کا این او سی لازمی ٹھہرا دیا جائے جس میں تمام مسالک کے علماء کی نمائندگی ہو۔ اس طریقے سے؛ ایک مسلک کے کسی جذباتی آدمی کا دوسرے مسلک کے کسی آدمی کے خلاف ’’قانون ناموسِ رسالت‘‘ کا ناحق سہارا لینا خودبخود خارج از امکان ہو جاتا ہے۔ یہ بآسانی ہو سکتا ہے۔ اس مسئلہ کو بڑھا چڑھا کر بیان کرنا اور اس اتنی سی بات کو خود اِس قانون ہی کو ختم کرنے کےلیے ایک ’وجہ‘ قرار دینا فنکاری کے سوا کچھ نہیں۔

2.tuhyn problem of false cases of blasphemy
accusation is against innocent people are punished by the law and that they should be amended.
Comment:
It is the object of knowledge, is an effective penal law to combat cases of abuse pursuant to Penal Code Section 194 If a person sentenced to life imprisonment or death, killing an innocent misrepresentation, or intended to induce a lie شہادت دے تو اس كو عمر قيد كى سزا مقرر ہے- اور اگر كسى شخص پر سزائے موت لاگو ہوجائے اور بعد ميں ثابت ہو كہ اس كى وجہ جهوٹى شہادت تهى تو ايسے جهوٹے گواہ ياگواہوں كو سزائے موت دى جائے گى- اگر قانونِ توہين رسالت كا Why is this government so reluctant used to implement the penal law is also at the court itself may give exemplary punishment to take notice of these people who are involved do people lie on charges of blasphemy
Moreover, the problem is not with contempt blasphemy law being misused to lie under the laws of other serious criminal cases in the country. There Mojo thousands of people right in our prisons, whose name was put solely on hostility in murder cases, but did not object to these rules on the grounds that they are filing false cases these cover for them rules or be over the legal penalties for these crimes.
Apparently humiliated after being accused of blasphemy law protects it from damaging the case law of motion and does it protect life and property. Amazing is the talk of the reform of institutions nafd law to the law. If the regulation were to be eliminated will be in the hands of citizens rather than create more problems phrmaamlat state.
The advantage: earlier raised objections to the punishment of blasphemy by Hassan Madani, the contempt mzmrataz Mohammad Ismail Qureshi, editing task, by optimizes servants aflht alujuh


@Kash_Ninja
 
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greek and rome were liberal when they introduced democracy in a monarch continent.no one founded the liberalism its not a static concept that can be found its a thought process that exists in the human mind since the birth of humanity what was liberal in the past might be considered conservative now because changes brought by time and technology.

@abdulbarijan @pak-marine @RoadRunner401 care to add something to the topic bros

Sorry about being really late to the party ... anyways .... Let's start with a generic truth. Unless there is heavy marketing involved, usually groups are known by the worst of their kind. So if we're representing conservatives with the extreme mullah wing, to keep things fair, the representation of liberalism in this case should be the third wave femanazis :P

Coming to the characteristics of both groups, there is one thing they share ... i.e. hypocrisy e.g. The conservative representatives from our country (mostly religious parties) most of the time are all up in arms about how western media has done this our that. How "behayai" is common place and you have protests or "say no" campaigns about such and such. Yet, how many times have we seen them protesting them against an interest based economy, something that is explicitly against our religion?

Similarly, coming to the left, we usually hear from the liberals about the right to abort a child. "Her body, her mind and her choice" as they say. The equality loving left doesn't consider the feelings of the father in the most life changing decision of a human being (having a child) i.e. if he wants to keep that child. Yet, as soon as the child comes to this world, feminazis are all about how the dad should pay child support irrespective of if he's seeing his child or not or that if he wanted to have the child in the first place. Basically a mother has the right to dump the child at any stage of development, and it's her choice, but if a dad does it, he's a dead beat.

Now coming to the people in the middle(both people who lean a little to the right or a little to the left), most of them hear each other and talk out their differences rationally. So the conclusion for me is, when it comes to conservatives (in our context), I believe that they have a vastly better compass to guide them in their lives i.e. Islam. However, we have hypocrites leading the right wing who cherry pick issues when it comes to the implementation of religious idealogy of islam.When it comes to liberalism, the compass can be subject to intellectual inconsistencies. In addition, liberals towards the extreme left are also subject to contradict their positions or be hypocritical just like people from the extreme right. However, these people (libs) are much more open to conversation and talking an argument out through rationality.

So, basically there is no guarantee of whose the default "right one" when it comes to both wings, as the individuals from both the wings can present arguments in their favor and can be downright hypocrites at times ...
 
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Being liberal to me means not being a complete douchebag to the people around. Everyone had an opinion, you may disagree with the opinion, you may not respect it, but being a true liberal means you do respect the right to an opinion.
 
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So if we're representing conservatives with the extreme mullah wing, to keep things fair, the representation of liberalism in this case should be the third wave femanazis :P

Similarly, coming to the left, we usually hear from the liberals about the right to abort a child. "Her body, her mind and her choice" as they say. The equality loving left doesn't consider the feelings of the father in the most life changing decision of a human being (having a child) i.e. if he wants to keep that child. Yet, as soon as the child comes to this world, feminazis are all about how the dad should pay child support irrespective of if he's seeing his child or not or that if he wanted to have the child in the first place. Basically a mother has the right to dump the child at any stage of development, and it's her choice, but if a dad does it, he's a dead beat.
bro i have cleared it to few other posters that these people are by definition not liberal but extremist SJW .they don't believe in equality or the right of others to hold different opinion neither they have capacity to hold constructive debate on the issues .these guys just share the liberal tag with genuine open minded people so they can have legitimacy.

Now coming to the people in the middle(both people who lean a little to the right or a little to the left), most of them hear each other and talk out their differences rationally.
thats the forgotten definition of true liberalism and that is the exact thing we need in our country.hold whatever believes you have and let others hold theirs and if there is some problem resolve it through talking not fists and bombs.
 
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liberalism by definition it has two core concepts on which it is founded equality and liberty .all the other ideas like tolerance,equal rights for every race,gender equality,freedom of speech,freedom of religion and even democracy stems from these two core believes.the idea behind liberalism is it is not static and it continues to evolve with the time, morals and new issues but for one to be called a liberal he has to believe in these two core concepts.

liberals were always the most hated bunch of society throughout the history and many of were even send to gallows and lost their most valuable possession.why?because they were the first one to challenge the deeply rooted social norms or religious believes of their societies.the believes like the flat earth or geocentrism.But had they or no one else challenged such believes in their time we would still be living in medieval era.No matter how much they were hated in their time It was always the liberals who challenged and changed their societies who brought forward the new ideas like democracy in front of people living in a monarchy or gender equality in a patriarchal culture.conservatives of that time hated them but now the whole world is reaping the benefit of the forward thinking of few minds.

while west now has the balanced amount of liberals and conservatives in their populace who can openly and easily challenge each others ideas .same can't be said about Pakistan or many other Muslim countries.here the conservative population is more dominant who consider liberals and their believes a threat to their society.which is halting the growth of these countries.

when ever someone talk about oppressed groups, gender equality blasphemy law or minority rights whole society instantly assumes that he is here to spread vulgarity in their women and destroy foundation of Islam etc and instead of engaging him in a proper debate people become defensive and start hurling personal insults or fatwa e kuffar at the guy.why is it like that when even Islam it self was the most liberal religion(also the reason of it spreading so quickly) of the period which gave the minority and women the rights which were unheard at the time and promoted a healthy debate culture.answer is because these guys or the guy teaching them islam has nothing to do with Islam all they want to do retain as much power over the other groups as they can.they don't care if it is immoral or even unislamic. same was the case with the Church they didn't put Galileo to house arrest for life just because he was disagreeing with them he was imprisoned because he openly challenged the church's power by repeatedly publishing his work on heliocentrism while he was told to abandon the opinion,inciting people to think against the geocentric teaching of the church and ridiculing a pope in the process.

so when ever these imam masjid and so called Islamic scholars like fazul rehman feel threaten by an idea which can loosen their grip on the masses. they use their fatwa power to turn the people against the idea.even if it is totally in accordance to Islam i.e tolerating other sects and minorities or women working outside the house .

ever increasing terrorism and radicalization of Muslim countries can only be ended if they adopt to the tolerant and liberal values of modern word .other wise they will be left behind isolated and devastated.its time we move forward and break these chains of century old mindset.


I see no conflict with Islam here but the problem starts when the west and their stooges redefine liberal ideas, when they want to say that allowing a homosexual to lead a prayer is the liberal way. This is just one example. There's a red line the west is not prepared to accept as far as Islam is concerned.
 
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I see no conflict with Islam here but the problem starts when the west and their stooges redefine liberal ideas, when they want to say that allowing a homosexual to lead a prayer is the liberal way. This is just one example. There's a red line the west is not prepared to accept when as far as Islam is concerned.
who says we have to follow their definition of liberalism.basic concepts are there all we need to do is build upon it according to our needs and culture .west is not the sole owner of liberalism.
 
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. The molvis will always reject these notion solely because it's western and hence haram, they will never think about it for it's merits.
Do you thinks butcher like Modi and rappist like yogi are liberal by any chance??
 
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Same here haha they always do that in the end but in my heart i always say that to them because actually only Allah can help them.
They get aggressive when you argue with facts and run you into corner of religion if you say something you are accused of spreading kufar

nowadays working women are mostly not allowed to wear traditional clothes which bring in islamic code
False for most cases only certain organizations enforce strict dress codes
9/10 working women u will see without complete hijab .
And many do it out of their own free will
Islam appointed different roles for men and women and gave them superiority in these roles
We should leave it on the individual how much of a parhez gar Musalman a person wants to be
we male tend to get angry too quickly at children but women has different approach
:tsk:
even a pious men will have an urge to stare at the forthcoming women
Issue is with the man here no?
.if both men and women do full time work then they wont give time to their chikdren
Bhai jan karna parta hay paisey darakhtoan par nahi ugtey ajkal dono paye chalain to guzara hota hay
children can get bad company very very very easily then
And you think it wont happen if their moms stay at home ?

My understanding of liberal is different from what people calling themselves liberal do and pose.
Agree in Pakistan anti nationals call themselves liberal

Liberalism in Pakistan is, keeping a 7-8 years old boy/girl as a caretaker of your kids. But asking for a liberal Pakistan.
Haye bibi dukhti rag ko chair diya aik ngo wali aunty apni maid ki beti sey kam karwati hain

Put your country and self interests first with in ethical means rather than falling for sentiments and emotions.
Attaboy :D

What about the governor.
Did he do the right thing? ????
Yes he did he stood up for the weak and challenged the unjust system

Do you thinks butcher like Modi and rappist like yogi are liberal by any chance??
They act liberal when it suits them only rest of the time its all talk of akhand bharat and revoking Muslim voting rights
 
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Good write-up OP. I'd definitely call myself a liberal. You're right to point out as I often do that liberalism is not a homogeneous ideology or set of ideologies, it varies from person to person and cause to cause.

I wish my countrymen would stop assuming that liberals are out to destroy tradition, corrupt our values, and most importantly, that they'd be coerced into accepting liberal things in their personal lives that they don't find agreeable.

We don't dictate how individuals conduct themselves in their personal lives, as long as they don't break the law. We believe in freedom for the individual, whether that individual is a traditionalist, conservative, or a liberal. The only place their freedom ends is where the freedom of others start, as defined by the law. It's a simple principle that works well, and countries that follow this are right now the most prosperous in the world. And some deeply conservative people even on this forum go to such countries, the liberal principles of which they seem to dislike if applied to Pakistan.

As for the idea that the political turmoil and rise of populism in the West, anyone who believes that this the result of failed liberal policies on a societal level is misreading the situation. What has actually failed is neoliberalism and the kind of 'capitalism' that it claims to support, the rise in populism coincides perfectly not with liberalisation of society and of civil rights, but with the financial crisis of 07-08, with the economic turmoil that followed and the Eurozone crisis.

This trend is neither new nor the result of liberalism. Neoliberalism, as Noam Chomsky put it, is neither new nor liberal. Similar trends have been seen in the past, in the 1930s for instance, yet the cause wasn't liberalism or leftism then, it was no doubt where the anger was partly placed though.
 
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They get aggressive when you argue with facts and run you into corner of religion if you say something you are accused of spreading kufar


False for most cases only certain organizations enforce strict dress codes

And many do it out of their own free will

We should leave it on the individual how much of a parhez gar Musalman a person wants to be

:tsk:

Issue is with the man here no?

Bhai jan karna parta hay paisey darakhtoan par nahi ugtey ajkal dono paye chalain to guzara hota hay

And you think it wont happen if their moms stay at home ?


Agree in Pakistan anti nationals call themselves liberal


Haye bibi dukhti rag ko chair diya aik ngo wali aunty apni maid ki beti sey kam karwati hain


Attaboy :D


Yes he did he stood up for the weak and challenged the unjust system


They act liberal when it suits them only rest of the time its all talk of akhand bharat and revoking Muslim voting rights
height of ignorance my brother in ur post...issue is not with men but with nature of men and even male animals such as rabbit....Allah made them this way...Prophet Muhammad S A asked women to stay at home and avoid unnecessary outings. Even Khadija R A when working wasnt going every market outside and talking to any random person , her job as a business women was inside room as HQ and she used to order and manage things as a manager....Accord8ng to ur statement "this is issue of men " then bhai is dunia ka Allah hi hafiz jahan koi 1 doosray se cooperation nai karsakta basic problems ko handle karne ke liye. Agar mard apni chalata rahe aur aurat apni to hogaya is dunya ka kachra. Both genders must cooperate....i have seen some men in pak who treat women as insects...if only i find believe me those men will get shoes on their faces from me.....Women also some places are like this especially in karach8 korangi...
 
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with nature of men
Punish those who harass simple why rewind the clock and undo all our gains in last 20 years?
1 doosray se cooperation nai karsakta basic problems ko handle karne ke liye
Financial problem kay liye co-operate karein to harj kiya hay?
Yahan aik fard ki tankhwa ab thori hay shehar mein rehney kay liye
.i have seen some men in pak who treat women as insects..
I root for striker laws and change of our society,s mentality
 
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