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What Country has the Most Unsustainable Debt? (hint: not Greece)

That country is full of people anticipating for 2012.
Don't waste time arguing with Supa Powans from a total debtor country.

Let's see. Wait for the slap of a debt write-off. It should be coming within six months.

That's correct bro.

It's just illiterate to compare Public Debt (Government Dedt) to Total Debt. For debt loaned to companies and individuals, we have a term for it "Domestic Credit To Private Sector". Note it is not "Public Debt", which usually has to be managed vs GDP or Tax Revenue, and you can dig deeper in this agenda, in China's case it's well under control. Check below link or other open sources.


About significant increase in Domestic Credit to Private Sector, it's a lot more complicated as usual:
  • It's driven by even faster growing M1/M2 money supply (货币供应) for the period 2008-2015, i.e. quantitative easing (check US for the same period). More liquidity, more debt, are injected into the economy.
  • Also, the huge trade surpluses in form of forex, and inbound FDI, sold to PBOC further increase money supply. This compulsory buying of Forex is a state policy (强制结汇).
  • RMB appreciation expectation (人民币升值预期) brought in hot money.
  • Note, alot of credits go into infrastructure/CAPEX of long pay-back period (回本期), check China's massive addition of infrastructures since 2008. The overall scale is not a problem, the credits are hedged by ever expanding assets.
  • It's a good news to the vibrant small-to-medium POE which have been sidelined by SOE before.
  • China has been developing the banking industry, bond/credit market, gradually. The most developed markets include US (195%), HKSAR (233%), UK (141%), Singapore (132%), etc. Shanghai is developing fast.
  • If you still want a comparison vs GDP, check some benchmarks from World Bank:

On Pubic Debt, there is also major difference between debt hold by domestic investors, and those hold by foreign investors (foreign creditors). For Japan's case, it's primarily hold by Japanese investors, denominated in home currency, the problems are mostly confined within the country. For countries with debts hold by foreign investors, denominated in forex, then the pressures are more complicated, e.g. affects its credit in international bond market, currency instability, pressure on debt servicing in forex reserves.

On Net International Investment Position, here is a sample:​


Japan is a creditor nation, largest in the world for the past 24 years in a row. China is second to Japan if only Mainland is accounted, but overtakes Japan if HK, Macau & Taiwan are included.​


China's non-government debt is also mostly China's government debt. The bulk of the debt in the so-called non-government debt that you claim has been run up by SOEs, and there is no private hand behind them, so in effect it is government debt. You just need a bit of common sense to figure that one out, not blah blah blah.
 
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Let's see. Wait for the slap of a debt write-off. It should be coming within six months.

Let's see? Woulda coulda? OK then, let's wait till 2012 and see a new financial superpower shines, we are all anticipating! During the mean time, you have quite some external debt to service.

China's non-government debt is also mostly China's government debt. The bulk of the debt in the so-called non-government debt that you claim has been run up by SOEs, and there is no private hand behind them, so in effect it is government debt.

I thought the E in SOE means "Enterprise", which may have variable shareholding structure, aren't they? SOE is China only?

Also, show numbers from WB or IMF instead of blah blah blah.
You just need a bit of common sense to figure that one out, not blah blah blah.

When you blah blah blah about Total Debt comparing to Government Debt, where's your common sense, if there is any to begin with?
 
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Let's see? Woulda coulda? OK then, let's wait till 2012 and see a new financial superpower shines, we are all anticipating! During the mean time, you have quite some external debt to service.



I thought the E in SOE means "Enterprise", which may have variable shareholding structure, aren't they? SOE is China only?

Also, show numbers from WB or IMF instead of blah blah blah.


When you blah blah blah about Total Debt comparing to Government Debt, where's your common sense, if there is any to begin with?

There is no pussyfooting around the fact that all of the SOE debt that Chinese banks are saddled with are government debt. You can keep drinking your own kool-aid and call it something else, no one else buys it. And by the way, most of it would have been classified as NPA already in any country with a transparent and functional banking system.
 
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There is no pussyfooting around the fact that all of the SOE debt that Chinese banks are saddled with are government debt. You can keep drinking your own kool-aid and call it something else, no one else buys it. And by the way, most of it would have been classified as NPA already in any country with a transparent and functional banking system.

Probably you are drinking something uniquely indian that's weird to the rest of the world, alright then, did you
blah blah blah again that "SOE debt that Chinese banks are saddled with are government debt"?

What are SOE? Here ...
State-owned enterprise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oooops, not just China, they seem to be everywhere in the world!
Even poor state of india owns some enterprises!​

What are government debts? Here ...
Government debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hmmm ... maybe it's time to redefine government debts, because of your shining "common sense".
About upcoming financial superpower by 2012

National debt of india ...
India Debt Clock :: National Debt of India
Did you see any SOE debt included? Pussyfooting of national degree.

Foreign debt of india ...
India Total External Debt | 1999-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast
Wow all time high! As a trade deficit nation, how you gonna pay that?​
 
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Probably you are drinking something uniquely indian that's weird to the rest of the world, alright then, did you
blah blah blah again that "SOE debt that Chinese banks are saddled with are government debt"?

What are SOE? Here ...
State-owned enterprise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oooops, not just China, they seem to be everywhere in the world!
Even poor state of india owns some enterprises!​

What are government debts? Here ...
Government debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hmmm ... maybe it's time to redefine government debts, because of your shining "common sense".
About upcoming financial superpower by 2012

National debt of india ...
India Debt Clock :: National Debt of India
Did you see any SOE debt included? Pussyfooting of national degree.

Foreign debt of india ...
India Total External Debt | 1999-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast
Wow all time high! As a trade deficit nation, how you gonna pay that?​
Horrible trade deficit.:D
They think they can be Americanos to print PPP rupees.
 
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Nice article. Also. totally wrong. I think the reason for that is because it takes account of only Government debt, and not total debt.The country with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio among major economies is China. So far I have read of a ratio between 207-282 percent:

China's Debt-to-GDP Ratio Just Climbed to a Record High - Bloomberg Business

Debt and (not much) deleveraging | McKinsey & Company

Given that these are just estimates, the real figures could be much higher. They could also be lower, but I think it can be safely assumed it wouldn't be so by much.

Nope, accounting for local debt, China is still one of the lower ones because one of the most moronic thing these article do is comparing the total debt of China with only the government debt of other countries. What? You are surprised low saving nations like Europeans and US actually have a lot more debt floating around other the government debt? In fact, the 18.4 trillion USD debt is only the federal debt. There are a lot more at the state and individual level.
 
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Wow all time high! As a trade deficit nation, how you gonna pay that?

The rest of your post does not merit a reply, this part does.

We will repay it the same way that you will repay yours - by writing it down. And if it will impact our economy, credit rating and currency negatively, think about what will happen to China when it writes down its debt.

Nope, accounting for local debt, China is still one of the lower ones because one of the most moronic thing these article do is comparing the total debt of China with only the government debt of other countries. What? You are surprised low saving nations like Europeans and US actually have a lot more debt floating around other the government debt? In fact, the 18.4 trillion USD debt is only the federal debt. There are a lot more at the state and individual level.

The average total debt in other major countries ranges between 150-220 per cent. That could be as much/lower than China's, depending on which Chinese estimates are correct.
 
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The rest of your post does not merit a reply, this part does.

We will repay it the same way that you will repay yours - by writing it down. And if it will impact our economy, credit rating and currency negatively, think about what will happen to China when it writes down its debt.


Same way as we do? OK. China is the second largest creditor nation on this planet, and a trade surplus nation, if there's any external debt just repay by surplus cash. No write down, no impact on those things you mentioned. Frankly speaking, we have headaches finding right investment for our surplus money.

You are a debtor nation, a trade deficit nation, you gonna do the same?

China trade surplus reaches $137bn (for 2nd Quarter of 2015)
 
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Same way as we do? OK. China is the second largest creditor nation on this planet, and a trade surplus nation, if there's any external debt just repay by surplus cash. No write down, no impact on those things you mentioned.

You are a debtor nation, a trade deficit nation, you gonna do the same?

China trade surplus reaches $137bn (for 2nd Quarter of 2015)
How is India's trade deficit going?
I am wondering what will happen if Fed increases interest rates, hot money will leave India?
 
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The average total debt in other major countries ranges between 150-220 per cent. That could be as much/lower than China's, depending on which Chinese estimates are correct.
wait, what?! total debt at 150~220%?

more like 300~700%.

upload_2015-10-9_22-6-18.png


upload_2015-10-9_22-7-1.png


upload_2015-10-9_22-8-53.png


:crazy:.
 
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Same way as we do? OK. China is the second largest creditor nation on this planet, and a trade surplus nation, if there's any external debt just repay by surplus cash. No write down, no impact on those things you mentioned. Frankly speaking, we have headaches finding right investment for our surplus money.

You are a debtor nation, a trade deficit nation, you gonna do the same?

China trade surplus reaches $137bn (for 2nd Quarter of 2015)

I was talking about internal debt, which is the bulk of both nation's debt. Foreign currency reserves of $1.4 tn cannot pay internal debt of $25 tn plus. That calls for a write-off. You are mixing up concepts.

wait, what?! total debt at 150~220%?

more like 300~700%.

View attachment 263473

View attachment 263474

View attachment 263475

:crazy:.

Majority of financial debt in the world is in the form of derivatives that will be written down just like internal debt. The world isn't worth as much as all the fake money people have invented out of thin air.
 
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