What about jf-17 for bangladesh airforce?

[eastwatch]

PLAAF haven't inducted the FC-1 Block I, BUT they have hundreds of light 3rd gen AC that need to be phased out, they may choose later blocks of FC-1.

And the reason for not choosing FC-1 Block I is justified, since they already have a wide range of 4th gen... J-10/A/B/BS, J-11/A/B/BS, J-15, JH-7 variant, Su-30MKK/MK2 and Su-27SK/UBK.

PLAAF has chosen F-7Gs instead of FC-1 alongwith its J-10 and J-11. F-7G is a known and battle proof platform which the Chinese will not abandon. Rather, it is possible that the Chinese will produce less number of J-10s and J-20s, and will depend rather on its F-7Gs.

One more point. The climbing rate of F-7BG is about 195m/s and not 150m/s as I have mentioned earlier. Note the quotation from a defence article:

"---------Based on the F-7MG electronic technology demonstrator, it (F-7PG) features various upgrades to meet PAF's requirements, including a one-piece windshield, Italian Grifo-7PG PD radar (search 55km, track 37km, single target track), new color CRT displays (EFIS), HUD, HOTAS control, new air data computer, TACAN, PL-9C IR-guided AAM, WP-13F(B) turbojet (13,200lb w/ afterburning) plus two 30mm cannons (compared to one on J-7E/G).

Its maximum climb rate is 38,300ft/min (195m/s), combat radius is 850km (hi-hi-hi air-superiority role) and maximum load is 1,800kg. The new double-delta wing suggests the same design on J-7E has proven successful. However, since its basic design of Mig-21F has been more than 40 years old, this approach did not fundamentally change the overall performance. Pakistan ordered 57 F-7PGs in early 2000. These F-7PGs have replaced J-6/Mig-19 and will counter India's Mig-21bis/Bison fleet. 48 were delivered to Pakistan by the end of 2002.

Besides Pakistani AF, Namibian AF ordered 12 F-7NMs in August 2005. All were delivered in 2006. These are equipped with Italian Grifo-7MG radar. Bangladesh AF also ordered 12 F-7BGs in 2005. All were delivered 2006. ------------. The latest news (November 2011) suggested that Bangladesh is considering to acquire 16 IMPROVED F-7BGs in 2012 featuring a glass cockpit with 3 MFDs and HOTAS". (end of quotation)

I do not think BAF has made a mistake by opting for BGI grade F-7s which will also be BVR capable and there will be a total of seven hardpoints. A fighter jet is not a transport plane. It should carry only the weapons that it is supposed to carry, that's all.

JFT has two additional adavantages. One is its radius of action is longer than the BGI, and its loading capacity is higher than a BG or a BGI. But, in order to defend a small country like BD, BAF need no larger fuel tank. Its carrying capacity need not also be increased, because its ammunitions are limited for its mission.

So, I think, BAF decision is correct by not opting for a JFT platform, because BAF has a little opportunity to use this plane at its optimum.

 

[MiG-21]

^JF-17 will indeed fire SD-10, but does it fire NOW? Has the integration been complete?

do you really think the PAF would have ordered SD-10 BVR-enabled missiles (over a year ago) if they could not be integrated to the JF-Thunder? PLAAF has had these missiles in operation since 2007.

You will learn if/when you SEEK to learn. There's a lot of knowledge out there, and in this forum as well.

IIRC, PAF said it is going to get avionics and SD for the JF-17, after the french deal wasn't going anywhere. It said it is going for SD-10 and chinese avionics. It didn't mention anything about SD-10 being finished integration. It could have been only a couple of SD-10 for testing purposes. So far no news about SD-10 being fully integrated into the JF-17 as of NOW.

 

[Areesh]

So you guys don't have links. Thank you.

So even for something obvious you need links. Coming from a Bharati it is expected.

 

[Zabaniyah]

FC-1 cockpit layout explained:
http://i.imgur.com/XLivt.jpg

Note: Thanks to nabil_05 for the link.

 

[MiG-21]

So even for something obvious you need links. Coming from a Bharati it is expected.

I know one of main points of going for JF-17 is to have BVR, there is no dispute in that. All I need to know is whether that weapon has completed integration tests and fully integrated. Just like the JF-17 firing the PL-5 short range missile, I expect something solid to prove the current status of SD-10 and LGB integration on JF-17, that's all.
Just to have an idea, the MiG-21Bison upgrade completion got delayed by 3 years, and I suspect its because of difficulty of R-77 to Kopyo and LGB/TVGB integration. All this in an old, highly flown, proved MiG-21 platform. JF-17 is a brand new one, so there will be some difficulties involved.

 

[ziaulislam]

question is can u give me a solid link stating that block 1 doesn't has BVR cpability..?
to be honest i havnt heard it anywhere..! other than a few Indian and some paranoid pakistani members, there have been no news from anywhere, in all the news reports the current block one specifications have always been shown to carry anti ship missiles and sd-10.
pt-6 and protype 4 both were protypes for block 1. only thing is that pictures and reports of Chinese development leak out but there are no leaking reports from pakistan side.

 

[MiG-21]

Yea, I don't have a link. I even don't have a link that MiG-21 CAN'T fire an anti-radiation Awacs killer BVR, so does that mean MiG-21 can fire it? Ofcourse it can't.
Fact is, it is more tough and requires work to integrate a BVR into JF-17, than not integrate it. Since it is tough, it requires some sort of an acknowledgment that the tough work was completed successfully. That's all.

 

[ziaulislam]

Yea, I don't have a link. I even don't have a link that MiG-21 CAN'T fire an anti-radiation Awacs killer BVR, so does that mean MiG-21 can fire it? Ofcourse it can't.
Fact is, it is more tough and requires work to integrate a BVR into JF-17, than not integrate it. Since it is tough, it requires some sort of an acknowledgment that the tough work was completed successfully. That's all.

but you are missing the point, what i am saying that jf-17 have thousands of links saying it CAN but not a single saying it cant...
mig21 has none to say that it CAN!

 

[MiG-21]

Oh that. Well, there is a difference between what is the final specifications and current specifications for any aircraft in development. Same goes for LCA too. LCA should do 9Gs, and in all specifications from ADA(the development agency), it listed as 9Gs, but Currently it can only do 6Gs. But you can't see 6Gs anywhere. The links you are talking about have been listing JF-17 as able to fire SD-10 and LGBs right from even 2004! Example - Chinese Defence Today :: FC-1/JF-17 Multirole Fighter Aircraft
Do you really believe it was integrated back in 2004?

However what they are doing is not wrong, it is a common practice to list it, eventhough it has not yet been integrated. They are not lying, because it is only a question of time before it is integrated. F-22 designers have also done the same, listing all those weapons capable of firing when it hadn't, during F-22's prototype stage.

 

[ziaulislam]

go through jf-17 info thread.
there are several statements from CAC,PAC and PAF chief regarding weapon intergation. There are photos showing jf-17 carrying weapons c-802,c-803 ,sd-10 and MARs1
at moment all specification presented on internet are clearly stated to be for block 1 and are all fulfilled according to official reports and statements .
the specification for block 2 or future specifications are not based on speculation, as nothing has been made public whether refueling probes, AESA or any new weapons would be included.
LCA mark 1 and mark 2 both specification are available.
and unlike LCA, jf-17 had operational clearence 2 years back and its block 1 has nearly completed (45 out 50 added) so its block 1 progress has been fully completed. people are now talking of block 2 which is supposed to be cleared for induction in mid to late 2012.
so there is no such thing as on paper and in reality, as on paper= on reality in jf-17 and all other aircrafts whose specific block has made operational clearance
LCA is in development phase as neither of its block has yet to make any operational clearance, as its not final yet

 

[MiG-21]

As I have said before, I have gone through that thread, and there is nothing there to suggest that the integration is completed. And those are Mockups of those weapons! All I'm asking is for an SD-10 firing or "integration completed" words. And you can't give it. If you want to believe all those are integrated without proof then go ahead. Go and say that in any neutral forum, and most will poo poo it.

An example of proof - MiG-21Bison hits target with R-77 missile

An example of MiG-21 Bison carrying a R-77 Mockup - http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/os_mig.jpg

 

[Areesh]

I know one of main points of going for JF-17 is to have BVR, there is no dispute in that. All I need to know is whether that weapon has completed integration tests and fully integrated. Just like the JF-17 firing the PL-5 short range missile, I expect something solid to prove the current status of SD-10 and LGB integration on JF-17, that's all.
Just to have an idea, the MiG-21Bison upgrade completion got delayed by 3 years, and I suspect its because of difficulty of R-77 to Kopyo and LGB/TVGB integration. All this in an old, highly flown, proved MiG-21 platform. JF-17 is a brand new one, so there will be some difficulties involved.

A better post from you. I think you didn't understand my post when you asked for links.

 

[MiG-21]

Ah, ok. I confused you for someone else.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Pakistan should sell JFT Block 1 only to BAF.

Selling JFT Block 2 to BAF would be a bad move because Bangladesh cannot be trusted if they will not share the technology with India ( Especially under AL/Hasina govt.).

We should be very wary of the Treacherous behaviour of Bangladesh. We should not forget how they stabbed us in the back recently with their vote against us in European Union.

If they can do that then they are also capable of selling us out to the Indians.

 

[kobiraaz]

^ I doubt this. Hasina and awami goons have no control over military...