West ignores lessons of Soviet humiliation in Afghanistan

[Thomas]

From stat Afghanistan was the weakest country both Russia and US took this opponent to have military presence in south Asia.

Only problem is American failed Russian by creating Taliban and American are trap in their own creation.

Russia was defeated in Afghanistan by the U.S. pouring money and weapons to the mujaheddin. Without it and specifically the anti Armour and aircraft missiles. The mujaheddin were getting their proverbial ***** kicked. The Taliban are a creation of Pakistani intelligence who wanted to hold sway in the power vacuum created once the Russians left. And really who can really blame them since Afghanistan is their back yard. The U.S. made a huge mistake in letting the power vacuum happen rather then help rebuild Afghanistan when the Soviets left. The Taliban made a huge blunder in harboring Bin Laden and opening the door for the U.S. to help the Northern Alliance and put troops on the ground. Before this the Taliban had the Northern Alliance on the ropes.

 

[Thomas]

What many people still don't understand is that Afghanistan is not a difficult country to colonise; It's an impossible country to colonise. The Persians tried and failed, Britain tried and failed, Russia tried and failed very hard, some others have tried and failed, and now whoever is trying or wants to try will fail the hardest. Not only their economy will collapse, not only will they lose thousands of innocent lives, but whoever they want to disappear from Afghanistan won't ever even leave Afghanistan.

No one is trying to colonize Afghanistan. The U.S. is there simply because the Taliban decided to shield Bin Laden. If they would have given him up in the first place we would not be where we are today. And the Taliban would still be in control. The Taliban are a victim of their own arrogance in thinking there was nothing the U.S. could do to them for protecting Bin Laden. Also the losses the U.S. has experienced in Afghanistan is nothing compared to Taliban losses. Or the losses the Russians, British, and Persians experienced. I heard similar arguments about Iraq. and now the Iraqi's have been able to assume control more and more of their country on their own. U.S. forces will soon be leaving that country. And shifting more focus to Afghanistan.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Charlie Wilson war should be watched by every one, best movie I have ever seen on USA role in Afghanistan. Tom Hanks is the best.

 

[Watani]

@Thomas
Taliban had asked USA for valid reason and evidence Osama was involved in 9/11 and they indeed did the wrong thing by not giving up Osama, but yet I don't think that give USA the right to just invade the country and on top of that put the Northern Alliance in power, which destroyed thousands of Pashtuns lives.

 

[gambit]

@Thomas
Taliban had asked USA for valid reason and evidence Osama was involved in 9/11 and they indeed did the wrong thing by not giving up Osama, but yet I don't think that give USA the right to just invade the country and on top of that put the Northern Alliance in power, which destroyed thousands of Pashtuns lives.

It is not just about 9/11. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda have been linked to other acts of terrorism against US such as the USS Cole. With only tepid response from US, al-Qaeda felt a major and spectacular attack was necessary.

 

[waraich66]

The US did not create the Afghani Taliban movement. The Saudi and UAE-funded madrassas in Pakistan started it. Later, Benazir Bhutto overruled the ISI's opinion and threw Pakistan's support to the Omar Taliban, to the detriment of G. Hekmatyar's group, ISI's favorite. B. Bhutto wanted an oil or gas pipeline to go through Kandahar to a Pakistani port to create jobs and revenue for Pakistan. This Unocal pipeline was Pakistan's baby, not the US governments! So, the Afghani Taliban belong to Pakistan, hook, line and sinker. The US had nothing to do with the formation or rise of Mullah Omar's Taliban.

Talaban dont get any aid from Saudi or UAE ,Saudi only funded dawa Irshad( based on Wahabi School of thought) .

Karzai was employer of UNOCAL ,US tried to make deal with Mullah Omer but he refused, BB was not key player .

 

[MastanKhan]

No one is trying to colonize Afghanistan. The U.S. is there simply because the Taliban decided to shield Bin Laden. If they would have given him up in the first place we would not be where we are today. And the Taliban would still be in control. The Taliban are a victim of their own arrogance in thinking there was nothing the U.S. could do to them for protecting Bin Laden. Also the losses the U.S. has experienced in Afghanistan is nothing compared to Taliban losses. Or the losses the Russians, British, and Persians experienced. I heard similar arguments about Iraq. and now the Iraqi's have been able to assume control more and more of their country on their own. U.S. forces will soon be leaving that country. And shifting more focus to Afghanistan.

Hi,


No---the u s is there, because it thought that it was the GOD at that time. Its techno army would wreak havoc on the taliban and send them packing back to stone age---the u s GOD wanted to show the world how strong and massive and destructive its fire power was---yes indeed---we all fear the wrath of the u s in true sense---but then after the fact when the ether wears out---and the civilization comes out of the ozone layer---it is the same old story---after five yars of occupation, the afghans would rise again----and the do what they like doing best---kill---they love to kill their enemies---kill kill kill and kill---that is all trhey want to do.

Only if the afghans had half the american weaponery---the u s army would have suffered such a humiliating defeat that it would have been talked about in the anals of history for a thousand years to come---even this defeat would be talked about in the history books till eternity---for Gorbachev it took around four years after realizing his mistake---in to how to hide the shame and embarrassment---now the key here is that how long would it take the americans to reach that saturation point.

Enough time should have been given to mullah Omar to hand over Bin Laden or had him executed---discretion should have used in place of wham bam.

 

[Thomas]

Hi,


No---the u s is there, because it thought that it was the GOD at that time. Its techno army would wreak havoc on the taliban and send them packing back to stone age---the u s GOD wanted to show the world how strong and massive and destructive its fire power was---yes indeed---we all fear the wrath of the u s in true sense---but then after the fact when the ether wears out---and the civilization comes out of the ozone layer---it is the same old story---after five yars of occupation, the afghans would rise again----and the do what they like doing best---kill---they love to kill their enemies---kill kill kill and kill---that is all trhey want to do.

Only if the afghans had half the american weaponery---the u s army would have suffered such a humiliating defeat that it would have been talked about in the anals of history for a thousand years to come---even this defeat would be talked about in the history books till eternity---for Gorbachev it took around four years after realizing his mistake---in to how to hide the shame and embarrassment---now the key here is that how long would it take the americans to reach that saturation point.

Enough time should have been given to mullah Omar to hand over Bin Laden or had him executed---discretion should have used in place of wham bam.

well I think we can agree to disagree on this issue. I think the Taliban will reap what they have sown. their viciousness against the Pakistan and Afghan people will in the end turn against them. no different then what Al Qaeda did to themselves in Iraq. You already see this happening in Pakistan with the tribes starting to turn against them.

 

[Enigma SIG]

The US NEVER funded Mullah Omar's Taliban movement. The US funded mujaheddin fighters, primarily those chosen by the ISI prior to 1990, but had left Afghanistan before the rise of the Afghani Taliban movement. The US has had no part at all in the rise, funding or support of the Afghan Taliban. The Afghan Taliban is entirely the creation of the Afghans themselves with funding and support from the Government of Pakistan, the Saudis and the UAE sheiks.

AND, the US has had no part in the rise, funding and support of the Pakistani Taliban, either.

Huh; so you completely agree that Pakistan was solely responsible for the dismantling of USSR and that the US couldn't do **** about it cuz they were pooping in their pants

 

[gambit]

Huh; so you completely agree that Pakistan was solely responsible for the dismantling of USSR and that the US couldn't do **** about it cuz they were pooping in their pants

Sure...We will give you that credit. Good luck in finding ANYONE SANE who will believe it.

 

[Watani]

It is not just about 9/11. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda have been linked to other acts of terrorism against US such as the USS Cole. With only tepid response from US, al-Qaeda felt a major and spectacular attack was necessary.

A lot of people, especially in Europe, used to suspect Bush and American government for 9/11 attacks as they thought many fingers pointing at them. Why was the world quiet about that? Plus it again didn't gave them any right to invade Afghanistan because Afghans weren't involved in it, plus in first few days of their invasion they made sure at least 2000 Taliban get killed in Northern Afghanistan. Afghans in South are damn scared of the Western forces because many of the households in the South have been killed for no bloody reason, and also despite of being an majority yet Pashtuns are being ignored completely at every single step. And then Americans wonder why there is so much ethical hatred there. That's why I don't blame them for supporting Taliban, who at least weren't killing them.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Sure...We will give you that credit. Good luck in finding ANYONE SANE who will believe it.

Americans; never learn a lesson do they

Trust me; the moment you get out of Afghanistan and other weak nations that you have invaded and keep your military might to yourself; the world will be a far better place

Kill somebody and expect their family to love you? Good luck with that

 

[gambit]

A lot of people, especially in Europe, used to suspect Bush and American government for 9/11 attacks as they thought many fingers pointing at them. Why was the world quiet about that? Plus it again didn't gave them any right to invade Afghanistan because Afghans weren't involved in it, plus in first few days of their invasion they made sure at least 2000 Taliban get killed in Northern Afghanistan. Afghans in South are damn scared of the Western forces because many of the households in the South have been killed for no bloody reason, and also despite of being an majority yet Pashtuns are being ignored completely at every single step. And then Americans wonder why there is so much ethical hatred there. That's why I don't blame them for supporting Taliban, who at least weren't killing them.

What do you call all those loony 9/11 conspiracy websites? All the oil wealthy Arab countries have to do is built a couple of tall towers and crash a couple of used airliners into them to prove once and for all that such a feat is impossible without CIA/Mossad involvement. Are you saying that building such tall towers are beyond their capabilities? The Petronas Towers are taller than the WTC towers, are they not? So look up where the Petronas Towers are located.

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------

Americans; never learn a lesson do they

Trust me; the moment you get out of Afghanistan and other weak nations that you have invaded and keep your military might to yourself; the world will be a far better place

Kill somebody and expect their family to love you? Good luck with that

Not very observant of history, are you? Add a lack of critical thinking skills to boot. When the USSR collapsed, spectacularly and ignobly, the world cheered and the people who are the most happy but not necessarily vocal about it, are petty dictators, like the kind the ME is so well acquainted. Despite the demise of the USSR and it is only from hindsight that the world finally realized that it is petty dictators like Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong-Il, not any US President, that did not make the world any safer. Over in YOUR part of the world, governments are more afraid of each other than of US. Why? Geez...Could the fact that all of them are petty dictatorial regimes have anything to do with it? Pakistan cannot get along with India and Afghanistan. Iraq cannot get along with Iran. Libya, Syria and Iran take turns screwing Lebanon over.

We are not perfect but we are more progressive than any of YOUR governments over there. We stood up to a global dictator -- the Soviet Union -- and now we are staring down at an aspiring one -- China. In the mean time, we gave the world the benefits of our scientific and technological advances like medicines, powerful computers, GPS and the Internet. So what do we get from the ME other than a corrupt and monopolistic oil cartel and endless chants of 'Death to America'? Zilch. Be glad...Be VERY glad...That US citizens do not have the same mentality as YOURS do because should ever the day when we publicly chant in our streets: 'Death to <insert country here>' that country will learn what WW II era Japan learned.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Gambit,

You didnot stand up to the global dictator russia---it was the afghan and us pakistanis who stood up to russia.

We faced the threat first hand and we are still paying the price---we even faced the threat of nuclear strike from russia after Gary Powers U 2 was shot down by the russians---Powers was based in peshawar american air base---and the plane took off from that base as well.

Funny thing is that my college history book in the u s never mentioned pakistan but stated the plane took off from turkey.

 

[A1Kaid]

Not very observant of history, are you? Add a lack of critical thinking skills to boot.

In the mean time, we gave the world the benefits of our scientific and technological advances like medicines, powerful computers, GPS and the Internet. So what do we get from the ME other than a corrupt and monopolistic oil cartel and endless chants of 'Death to America'? Zilch. Be glad...Be VERY glad...That US citizens do not have the same mentality as YOURS do because should ever the day when we publicly chant in our streets: 'Death to <insert country here>' that country will learn what WW II era Japan learned.

"Not very observant of history, are you? Add a lack of critical thinking skills to boot."

You American, you have the nerve to tell someone that they are not observant of history after you make the most ignorant, imbecilic, and downright foolish comment about the ME's (Middle East) contribution to the world.

"So what do we get from the ME other than a corrupt and monopolistic oil cartel and endless chants of 'Death to America'?"

Any why do you get those chants? When did these chants begin in modern history? The answer lies in American-Anglo-Saxon-British and overall Western interference, destruction, invasion, sanctions, and occupation of Middle East/Muslim lands...

Your support of Israel ever since 1947, the fact that your nation supported the resolution to partition Palestine to establish a Jewish ideological state in the homeland of the Palestinians-who were not responsible for the Holocaust.

Your nation more than any other has gone out of it's way to subsidize, empower, protect, nourish, and encourage the Jewish State of Israel which has wreaked havoc and hellfire upon the Arab countries specifically the defenseless people of Gaza & West Bank. In fact, your nation has provided Israel with highly sophisticated weapons which it uses to kill innocent Muslims.

Your Nation, in the summer of 2006 even protested against a ceasefire during the Israel/Lebanon-Hezbollah war, even though the entire world and everyone in the UN Security Council even your ally the UK called for a ceasefire. But your democratically elected President Bush and your despicable UN Ambassador John Bolton openly supported continuation of Israeli onslaught.

Still wonder why your hated?

How about your nation has led one of the most bloodiest occupations of Baghdad/Iraq in history. Your occupation of Iraq will be as infamous as the Mongol sacking of Baghdad in 1258 C.E. The destruction of people's property, home raids, raping, killing, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, Secret Prison, Torture camps, authorization from Senior officials allowing and encouraging this to happen will earn you tremendous hatred and enmity from the Muslims.



Now in Afghanistan your soldiers have also harmed many civilians even deliberately, holding suspects without charging them of any crime. Ransacking people's home, your drones killing innocent people. All this and more for more than 8 years now...

"So what do we get from the ME other than a corrupt and monopolistic oil cartel and endless chants of 'Death to America'?"

Now let me address this other question you raise, rather insult you make.

What did the West get from the Middle East?

Well let's begin with your Third President and Founding Father. Pres. Thomas Jefferson who owned a Quran and had once mentioned it has contributed greatly to his own knowledge.

You people in the West are very ignorant of Muslim scientific & technological achievements. You know that "secularism" you love so much? Well that was founded and developed by Muslim Philosopher Ibn Rushid, whose idea of secularism spread to Europe and inspired many European intellectuals and reformers. The modern day banking systems all use "checks" or "cheques" this was also an invention of the Muslims...


Now I simply cannot go into every single bit of date and invention and science Muslims developed and invented because that is a vast history. But I will tell you that the Muslims for 700-800 years of human history contributed tremendous amounts of scientific knowledge, technological knowledge, political, economic, and social discoveries and improvements to the entire world.

For 700-800 years the Muslims led mankind in all noble human endeavors.


Your country has only been around for 270+ years and already you are mightily arrogant American have the nerve to deride the great contribution of Muslims...




Here are some sources I strongly encourage you to view.





1001 Inventions: INFORMATION

How Islamic inventors changed the world - Science, News - The Independent

Muslim Scientific Inventions