Were Muslim Rajputs also honour bound to commit Saka and Jauhar when faced with overwhelming odds?

[Pakistansdefender]

You can and Muslims do. Only after do they face judgement. Which is not your problem or mine but of the individual who has done so.

Muslims can commit suicide .
But Muslims are not allowed to commit suicide in any condition . OK do a little bit of research .
Even in the worst of circumstances you cannot commit suicide .
This is the thinking of the Indians or Hindus that there is some kind of honor is dying . This is not right philosophy. It has nothing to do with honor but all it has to do is with twisted minds.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Muslims are not allowed

I am not talking about 'allowed'. But the actual reality. We are also not allowed to murder, commit zina, take intoxicants, take bribes, indulge in greed and wanton corruption but we do all that in abandon and more. Just take the time to check out crime stats in Pakistan.

 

[jamal18]

Under Islamic jurisprudence, yes you can take your life to guard your sanctity. I do not know out of humiliation or torture can you do that or not, I think not.

Sure? I always thought that suicide was a no no.

 

[Goenitz]

Sure? I always thought that suicide was a no no.

will have to search the online one fatwa.. but yes, it is.

 

[fitpOsitive]

A Rajput may not possess much in this world but then again does he need anything other than his lineage,his ancestry and his honour? An honour ,which has been carefully concocted in the crucible of the desert for over a thousand years. Colonial British writers had a much more innocent fascination regarding the Rajputs(and also the Pashtuns), before they repurposed their fascination for Rajput ethnography into making the philosophy of the martial races...anyways there gas been Muslim Rajput dynasties too...prime being the Soomras of Sindh ....Rajput men were honour bound to go out ritualistically and make a heroic last stand outsude the fort (Saka) in face of inevitable defeat while Rajput women were honour bound to commit Jauhar simultaneously within the fortress...It seems here lies the genesis of Rajput identity ....A code of honour no lesser than the seppuku committing Samurais of the Great Yamato Race....The Jauhar Step well would be the heart of any Rajput fortress construction .....

It seems the Rajput was more worried that loss of honour would pollute the bloodline rather than the typical Anglo-Saxon preoccupation that miscegnation would pollute the bloodline ...The first Anglo-Saxon ethnographers encountering the Rajputs must have been stupifued at this much different self-conception of identity

How did Muslim Rajput react when the tide inevitably turned against their favour with the onslaught of lightly Islamicized Mongol dynasties like the Arghun?

I belong to a family of Rajputs of East Punjab(Haryana). To the best of my knowledge, in our fights against our enemies, women helped their men in fight. But none of my elders ever told me any thing about sending any women to fire, or any woman going to fire herself.
But most of the time, we welcomed the outsiders. Moghals, Britishers even Mongols were all our buddies so you see

 

[War Thunder]

No I am not a Rajput... If you must know I am Ugra Kshatriya


@Indus Pakistan

Ok what exactly is that.
I thought I educated myself enough with the history through various sources and yet Ugra Kshatriya is something I'm hearing for the first time.

I belong to a family of Rajputs of East Punjab(Haryana). To the best of my knowledge, in our fights against our enemies, women helped their men in fight. But none of my elders ever told me any thing about sending any women to fire, or any woman going to fire herself.
But most of the time, we welcomed the outsiders. Moghals, Britishers even Mongols were all our buddies so you see

Yeah traitorous bunch
Selling out the land and its honor for personal gains

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Ok what exactly is that.
I thought I educated myself enough with the history through various sources and yet Ugra Kshatriya is something I'm hearing for the first time.




Yeah traitorous bunch
Selling out the land and its honor for personal gains

Ugra Kshatriyas are born of Kshatriya men and Shudra women.....In actual history, they are are descendants of marriages between Punjabi Khatris and local Sadgop chieftains of Bengal

 

[krash]

Under Islamic jurisprudence, yes you can take your life to guard your sanctity.

No you can't. Please do not spread misinformation born from illiterate, 2-bit "Muftis".

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

What are Kshatriyas? Role? Function?

Kshatriyas--->Warriors and I guess also administrators

 

[M.Bison]

Kshatriyas--->Warriors and I guess also administrators

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Laws of Manu? Read it?

I read the part that talks about Ugra Kshatriyas

9. From a Kshatriya and the daughter of a Sudra springs a being, called Ugra, resembling both a Kshatriya and a Sudra, ferocious in his manners, and delighting in cruelty.


Relevant Chapter from Manusmriti

Anyways I personally donot find caste classification anything interesting other than some cursory interest in what the ancients wrote about my particular caste.

My primary interest is ancient and modern texts on sexual sublimation and secondary interest being ancient meditation manuals

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

How many Sidhis?

LoLz...If you are in your spiritual practice as long as I have been, you kind of know that powers that purportedly break the laws of nature are just not possible...But still you get a huge plethora of interesting results in your day to day life, primary being way way more attraction and attention from women

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Funny!

I thought you have some Sidhis... afterall your efforts under your Guru???

Well it's not that I have not experienced Siddhis..I do have a Guru, but he is unorthodox...a White American from Portland,Oregon...The problem is in one's practice one comes up on a fork in the road...If you want to experience more and more Siddhis , you become for all functions and purposes an incompetent person in the real world...If you still want to retain your competency in the world, you more or less donot experience any Siddhis anymore...I chose the latter consciously...So my world is more mundane now

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Which Sidhis you let go?

Inedia

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Does this mean Muslim Rajputs say have committed Saka and Jauhar prior to Aurangzeb? Rajput men just do a last fateful charge rather than jumping in the fire.....The last Hindu ruler to jump into the fire was the Shahi ruler who lost the Battle of Peshawar at 1001 AD to Ghaznavi

Those who the mostly newly converted Sikh Rajputs and a minority of which came to identify with Hindus who ruled over modern Pakistani Punjab. They were the resistance which held out under Mughal rule and periodically rose up in revolt. It was only under Sultan Aurangzeb's brilliant rule and love of life that they became Muslim, which they still hold fervently to this day.

Sultan Aurangzeb's campaign and political struggle against the Sikhs is what gave Muslims Punjab. Even today, Muslim Rajput are among the most religious and devout of Punjabis.

After a long time researching this specific topic. I have concluded that Rajput was never an actual 'biradari' (tribe), nor were they ever an ethno-cultural body.

It was a title earned by tribes that gained control over large regions, and later became an identity of it's own.

In the same sense that titles such as Raja, Khan, Malik, Shaikh, Jam, etc... given to specific families became identities/tribes of their own.

A "Rajput" from Potohar (in Northern Punjab) has absolutely no links, whether culturally, genetically, linguistically, historically, etc... to lets say... a Rajput from Rajasthan.

Moreover, there is no historical evidence to suggest any of the tribes that are now claimed to be Rajput such as the Soomras, Sammas, Gakhars, etc... identified themselves as such until recently.


That is common in all tribes of Pakistan...

Basically this, Rajput is simply a title given by pre-Hindu/Hindu clergy and historians to landowning and aristocratic Iranic tribes who had settled into Punjab over centuries.