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‘We’ll meet you in the sky’: Chinese air force commander challenges US military goal to ‘scare China’

The US is a warrior nation.

It's in its peoples psyche.

Meanwhile China is trying to de feminize its men.

Having fancy new toys isn't enough.

When was the last time China had an armed conflict?
A warrior nation? Hahahaha...

A warrior nation that could not even beat Afghan cavemen with AK-47s? US is pulling out of Afghanistan now after 20 Years of fighting dudes in sheets, living in caves without a military and just AK47s, RPGs and suicide attacks with a full coalition of 20+ other countries. You think it can face a nation with a fully modernized military, well armed and highly trained forces? A country that can post up to 4 million soldiers in a full call to duty in all 3 military branches? The country with the largest economy in the world?
 
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Hold my beer. Maveric 2021 on the way !!




top-gun.jpg
 
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A warrior nation? Hahahaha...

A warrior nation that could not even beat Afghan cavemen with AK-47s? US is pulling out of Afghanistan now after 20 Years of fighting dudes in sheets, living in caves without a military and just AK47s, RPGs and suicide attacks with a full coalition of 20+ other countries. You think it can face a nation with a fully modernized military, well armed and highly trained forces? A country that can post up to 4 million soldiers in a full call to duty in all 3 military branches? The country with the largest economy in the world?
USA does not have direct access to Afghanistan (significant drawback), and American warfighting technologies are suitable for conventional methods of warfare. Expensive weapons and munitions will not provide breakthrough in an environment like Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is like a wasteland (the graveyard of Empires). Afghans do not have much to loose in a war. Afghan Taliban are nomadic and asymmetric.
 
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It does not matter. The US only fought against defenseless nations except in the world wars. China is a massive country with very large and powerful military and industries. They may be behind the US militarily but the US has to come thousands of miles to fight them. They will get a beating of their life, I bet you.
Absolutely, you pretty much nailed it.
 
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North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were defenseless nations? Let us see.

North Korea had established a professional army in the 1940s and it managed to occupy South Korea in 1950 before American intervention. US-led forces liberated South Korea subsequently.

Vietcong had substantial experience in guerrilla warfare and was heavily armed by both USSR and China through the 1950s and 1960s. Vietcong fought the Imperial Japanese in World War 2, defeated France in a war before American intervention which lasted till 1973, overwhelmed South Vietnam in 1975, and occupied Cambodia in 1978, and China could not oust Vietnam from Cambodia in its attempt subsequently.

Iraq had established a professional army in the 1980s, and it occupied Kuwait in a matter of hours in 1990. GCC requested American intervention to counter Iraq soon after. US-led forces liberated Kuwait subsequently.

Defenseless nation(s) cannot fight a war and occupy another country in the region when situation demands it.
Not just Vietcong but actual North Vietnamese Army. They didn't conquer South Vietnam til the U.S. pulled out or same for Afghanistan when the U.S. also pulled out. Never had any of those countries actually successfully defeat the U.S. militarily. Its still a defeat and I'll admit it, but never militarily. South Korea didn't fall because we still have military forces there. Had they not been there, South Korea would have fallen as well if the U.S. president Truman pulled out.
 
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North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were defenseless nations? Let us see.

North Korea had established a professional army in the 1940s and it managed to occupy South Korea in 1950 before American intervention. US-led forces liberated South Korea subsequently.

Vietcong had substantial experience in guerrilla warfare and was heavily armed by both USSR and China through the 1950s and 1960s. Vietcong fought the Imperial Japanese in World War 2, defeated France in a war before American intervention which lasted till 1973, overwhelmed South Vietnam in 1975, and occupied Cambodia in 1978, and China could not oust Vietnam from Cambodia in its attempt subsequently.

Iraq had established a professional army in the 1980s, and it occupied Kuwait in a matter of hours in 1990. GCC requested American intervention to counter Iraq soon after. US-led forces liberated Kuwait subsequently.

Defenseless nation(s) cannot fight a war and occupy another country in the region when situation demands it.

Their military capabilities were not even one thousandth of that of the US military.

A military of the size of USA can only be countered by the likes of China and Russia. And please, I don't need to read up on the technological superiority of their systems ; I already know they are far ahead. But technology alone doesn't decide wars. If they do fight the Chinese or the Russians they will get a severe beating, they know this and they won't try the stupidity . You can save this post and revisit after 5 years . The US won't attack The Chinese even if China attacks Taiwan, if they do they will lose.
 
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USA does not have direct access to Afghanistan (significant drawback), and American warfighting technologies are suitable for conventional methods of warfare. Expensive weapons and munitions will not provide breakthrough in an environment like Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is like a wasteland (the graveyard of Empires). Afghans do not have much to loose in a war. Afghan Taliban are nomadic and asymmetric.

If afghanistan was a logistical issue, China is a nightmare, American warfighting capabilities are for fighting along with allies with sub par third world enemies. America has NEVER fought alone an industrial power. In both the World wars the fight was far from its homeland. Today, US risks both these issues with China.
 
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North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were defenseless nations? Let us see.

North Korea had established a professional army in the 1940s and it managed to occupy South Korea in 1950 before American intervention. US-led forces liberated South Korea subsequently.

Vietcong had substantial experience in guerrilla warfare and was heavily armed by both USSR and China through the 1950s and 1960s. Vietcong fought the Imperial Japanese in World War 2, defeated France in a war before American intervention which lasted till 1973, overwhelmed South Vietnam in 1975, and occupied Cambodia in 1978, and China could not oust Vietnam from Cambodia in its attempt subsequently.

Iraq had established a professional army in the 1980s, and it occupied Kuwait in a matter of hours in 1990. GCC requested American intervention to counter Iraq soon after. US-led forces liberated Kuwait subsequently.

Defenseless nation(s) cannot fight a war and occupy another country in the region when situation demands it.
Along with so many countries then yeah
 
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A warrior nation? Hahahaha...

A warrior nation that could not even beat Afghan cavemen with AK-47s? US is pulling out of Afghanistan now after 20 Years of fighting dudes in sheets, living in caves without a military and just AK47s, RPGs and suicide attacks with a full coalition of 20+ other countries. You think it can face a nation with a fully modernized military, well armed and highly trained forces? A country that can post up to 4 million soldiers in a full call to duty in all 3 military branches? The country with the largest economy in the world?

You giving night mares to Amreekans, Their undies soil at the thought of taking on an industrial super power.... Take it easy :)
 
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Their military capabilities were not even one thousandth of that of the US military.
This is unrealistic view.

US military is well-funded and well-equipped but parts of it are committed to it for different ends around the world. Just check US military commands.

In case of war with a country, US does not redirect its entire force composition to the theater; not even close. Some of the security commitments are too important to be left unattended in American calculus.

The opposing country does not have similar constraints. It can fight as a whole. This was the case with North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. This is true even in the case of Afghanistan.

When you are on the offensive in hostile territory, conventional wisdom is to outnumber your enemy (minimum disparity = 2:1; ideal disparity = 7:1). But Americans do not follow this rule and try to compensate with technology. They can win battles with this approach but occupation of hostile lands and counter-insurgency are more demanding roles in comparison.

To give you some perspective, Indian military controls Jammu & Kashmir with "sheer numbers." It does not hold a candle to US military in conventional warfighting (and COIN), however.

So let us have a recap of some conflicts.

Korean War (1951 - 1953)

American military footprint was small in Korean peninsula before North Korea invaded South Korea and virtually annexed it in 1950. General McArthur opted for a tactical masterstroke (Operation Chromite) to catch North Korean military offguard and rout it from South Korea. When US-led forces were inside North Korea, China decided to help North Korea and pushed them back all the way to Pusan. US-led forces had to regroup and recapture South Korea. Korean War proved to be one of the most difficult to fight in any sense. Every stakeholder suffered heavy casaulties in the process.


Vietnam War (1955 - 1973)

France was in control of Vietnam before World War 2. Japan managed to created Vietnamese insurgency against France and the First Indochina War broke out in 1946 which concluded with defeat of the French in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Vietcong could commit a massive force of 80,000 men for this battle, and prevailed.

Vietnamese demonstrated considerable potential in guerilla warfare and even in conventional military operations. USSR and China provided much-needed arms to them for obvious reasons.

Loss of Vietnam alarmed many in the West and USA decided to intervene and preserve friendly South Vietnam. The Second Indochina War broke out in 1955 and concluded with the fall of South Vietnam in 1975.

There was another problem, however. Vietnamese terrain favors guerilla warfare and provides very limited space for mechanized military thrusts.

Vietnamese terrain made it impractical for USA to fight effectively on the ground like in World War 2. Military technologies of the time were not much better than in World War 2 either.

Although, American troops could fight and win battles in Vietnam, political situation of Vietnam did not shift over time. South Vietnamese were utterly lacking in capacity and appeal to reunite Vietnam as well. Ronald Reagan noticed the obvious and pulled the plug in 1973.

Persian Gulf War (1991)

Iraq was at war with Iran in the 1980s on religio-political grounds. Iran was better equipped and motivated than Iraq and turned the tide of war in 1982. Some countries decided to help Iraq and provided much-needed arms and technical knowhow to it. Iraq was able to rebuild its army and defeat Iranian forces in 1988 (Operation Ramadan Mubarak; Operation Forty Stars; Tawakalna ala Allah missions). In the same year, USN defanged Iranian Navy to bring an end to the ongoing Tanker War (Operation Praying Mantis).

Iraq now had a battle-hardened and well-equipped military force at its disposal. Tensions with Kuwait spiked over economic concerns, however. Iraq literally walked over Kuwait in under a day in 1990. GCC bloc was understandably spooked and requested American intervention.

KSA provided much-needed space to US-led forces for military buildup (and maneuvering possibilities) in case of war with Iraq. Battlefield tactics were given due importance in fact.

Vietnam War had taught many valuable lessons to USA in regards to how to develop equipment which can be more effective in difficult landscapes. A new generation of military equipment including sophisticated cruise missiles, jet fighters, stealthy strike platforms, surveillance systems, SAM systems, and heavily armored main battle tanks were conceptualized and produced in good numbers. Advances in computing technologies paved way for these innovations and development of network-centric military operations. Some of the technologies were relatively unknown to many around the world until the war broke out in 1991.

Iraq committed estimated million troops for anticipated war with US-led forces. These troops were heavily concentrated in Kuwait and within Iraq near Kuwait. The fundamental idea was to make counter-invasion of Kuwait very costly to the adversary [1].

General Schwarzkopf was not taking any chances, however. US-led forces composed a million troops as well (parity with Iraq). Breakthrough in military conflict was now contingent upon surprise factor in both tactics and military technologies.

Iraq was led to believe that Normandy Landings will be replicated in Kuwait. This impression helped inform Iraqi military positions accordingly (see [1] above). In reality, thrust would come from KSA and Iraqi armed forces will be encircled and cut-off from within Iraq and forced to surrender consequently.

Back in World War 2, Supreme Commander of allied forces Eisenhower had a similar plan. Germany was led to believe that US-led forces will invade France from Africa. This impression helped inform German military positions across France accordingly. In reality, thrust would come from UK (Normandy Landings). Due to this development, some of the German military divisions could not reach Normandy in time and all were routed one-by-one.

Point is that Operation Desert Storm was brilliantly executed with the right composition of manpower, technologies and tactics. The outcome surprised much of the world including USSR and China. Some of the Americans were surprised themselves because they were taking Soviet hype of Iraq at face value.

Pakistani COAS of the time Aslam Beg was also of the view that US-led forces will suffer heavy casualties in war with Iraq and this saga would be a repeat of Vietnam. He was proven wrong.

The bottom line is that none of the conflicts you mentioned were easy to fight, and each conflict presented its own set of challenges to Americans in the battlefield. In all fairness, these were among the most challenging conflicts of modern times.

Sheer downplay and underestimation of the warfighting capacity of countries other than USSR and China is not helpful. Please bear in mind the fact that a country which is invaded or finds itself to be in defensive role, is not necessarily alone. External assistance can materialize for some in these circumstances.

A military of The size of USA can only be countered by the like of China and Russia. And please I don't need to read up on the technological superiority of their systems ; I already know they are far ahead. Buts technology Alone doesn't decide wars. If they Do fight the Chinese or the Russians they will get a severe beating, they know this And they won't try the stupidity . You can save this post revisit after 5 years . The US won't attack The Chinese even if China attacks Taiwan, even if they do they will lose.
I never asserted that technology alone decide wars. Objectives should be realistic and attainable. Tactics should be given due importance as well.

This discussion is about a war which will be fought in a piece of land that is not a part of either Russia or China. In this relatively neutral venue, there is no guarantee which camp will prevail.

Taiwan can be successfully defended in view of its geography, technological supremacy and warfighting experience of US-led forces in theory. Whether this level of support will materialize or not is unclear - a matter of political will to say the least.

Taiwanese insurgency will have to show potential much like Vietnamese insurgency nevertheless. Counting entirely on Japan and USA is shortsighted. Taiwan is located very close to China - this arrangement have a psychological impact of its own.

But to assume that Russia or China can fight and win a war anywhere in the world is also shortsighted. Modern war can be unpredictable for any side.
 
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This is unrealistic view.

US military is well-funded and well-equipped but parts of it are committed to it for different ends around the world. Just check US military commands.

In case of war with a country, US does not redirect its entire force composition to the theater; not even close. Some of the security commitments are too important to be left unattended in American calculus.

The opposing country does not have similar constraints. It can fight as a whole. This was the case with North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. This is true even in the case of Afghanistan.

When you are on the offensive in hostile territory, conventional wisdom is to outnumber your enemy (minimum disparity = 2:1; ideal disparity = 7:1). But Americans do not follow this rule and try to compensate with technology. They can win battles with this approach but occupation of hostile lands and counter-insurgency are more demanding roles in comparison.

To give you some perspective, Indian military controls Jammu & Kashmir with "sheer numbers." It does not hold a candle to US military in conventional warfighting (and COIN), however.

So let us have a recap of some conflicts.

Korean War (1951 - 1953)

American military footprint was small in Korean peninsula before North Korea invaded South Korea and virtually annexed it in 1950. General McArthur opted for a tactical masterstroke (Operation Chromite) to catch North Korean military offguard and rout it from South Korea. When US-led forces were inside North Korea, China decided to help North Korea and pushed them back all the way to Pusan. US-led forces had to regroup and recapture South Korea. Korean War proved to be one of the most difficult to fight in any sense. Every stakeholder suffered heavy casaulties in the process.


Vietnam War (1955 - 1973)

France was in control of Vietnam before World War 2. Japan managed to created Vietnamese insurgency against France and the First Indochina War broke out in 1946 which concluded with defeat of the French in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Vietcong could commit a massive force of 80,000 men for this battle, and prevailed.

Vietnamese demonstrated considerable potential in guerilla warfare and even in conventional military operations. USSR and China provided much-needed arms to them for obvious reasons.

Loss of Vietnam alarmed many in the West and USA decided to intervene and preserve friendly South Vietnam. The Second Indochina War broke out in 1955 and concluded with the fall of South Vietnam in 1975.

There was another problem, however. Vietnamese terrain favors guerilla warfare and provides very limited space for mechanized military thrusts.

Vietnamese terrain made it impractical for USA to fight effectively on the ground like in World War 2. Military technologies of the time were not much better than in World War 2 either.

Although, American troops could fight and win battles in Vietnam, political situation of Vietnam did not shift over time. South Vietnamese were utterly lacking in capacity and appeal to reunite Vietnam as well. Ronald Reagan noticed the obvious and pulled the plug in 1973.

Persian Gulf War (1991)

Iraq was at war with Iran in the 1980s on religio-political grounds. Iran was better equipped and motivated than Iraq and turned the tide of war in 1982. Some countries decided to help Iraq and provided much-needed arms and technical knowhow to it. Iraq was able to rebuild its army and defeat Iranian forces in 1988 (Operation Ramadan Mubarak; Operation Forty Stars; Tawakalna ala Allah missions). In the same year, USN defanged Iranian Navy to bring an end to the ongoing Tanker War (Operation Praying Mantis).

Iraq now had a battle-hardened and well-equipped military force at its disposal. Tensions with Kuwait spiked over economic concerns, however. Iraq literally walked over Kuwait in under a day in 1990. GCC bloc was understandably spooked and requested American intervention.

KSA provided much-needed space to US-led forces for military buildup (and maneuvering possibilities) in case of war with Iraq. Battlefield tactics were given due importance in fact.

Vietnam War had taught many valuable lessons to USA in regards to how to develop equipment which can be more effective in difficult landscapes. A new generation of military equipment including sophisticated cruise missiles, jet fighters, stealthy strike platforms, surveillance systems, SAM systems, and heavily armored main battle tanks were conceptualized and produced in good numbers. Advances in computing technologies paved way for these innovations and development of network-centric military operations. Some of the technologies were relatively unknown to many around the world until the war broke out in 1991.

Iraq committed estimated million troops for anticipated war with US-led forces. These troops were heavily concentrated in Kuwait and within Iraq near Kuwait. The fundamental idea was to make counter-invasion of Kuwait very costly to the adversary [1].

General Schwarzkopf was not taking any chances, however. US-led forces composed a million troops as well (parity with Iraq). Breakthrough in military conflict was now contingent upon surprise factor in both tactics and military technologies.

Iraq was led to believe that Normandy Landings will be replicated in Kuwait. This impression helped inform Iraqi military positions accordingly (see [1] above). In reality, thrust would come from KSA and Iraqi armed forces will be encircled and cut-off from within Iraq and forced to surrender consequently.

Back in World War 2, Supreme Commander of allied forces Eisenhower had a similar plan. Germany was led to believe that US-led forces will invade France from Africa. This impression helped inform German military positions across France accordingly. In reality, thrust would come from UK (Normandy Landings). Due to this development, some of the German military divisions could not reach Normandy in time and all were routed one-by-one.

Point is that Operation Desert Storm was brilliantly executed with the right composition of manpower, technologies and tactics. The outcome surprised much of the world including USSR and China. Some of the Americans were surprised themselves because they were taking Soviet hype of Iraq at face value.

Pakistani COAS of the time Aslam Beg was also of the view that US-led forces will suffer heavy casualties in war with Iraq and this saga would be a repeat of Vietnam. He was proven wrong.

The bottom line is that none of the conflicts you mentioned were easy to fight, and each conflict presented its own set of challenges to Americans in the battlefield. In all fairness, these were among the most challenging conflicts of modern times.

Sheer downplay and underestimation of the warfighting capacity of countries other than USSR and China is not helpful. Please bear in mind the fact that a country which is invaded or finds itself to be in defensive role, is not necessarily alone. External assistance can materialize for some in these circumstances.


I never asserted that technology alone decide wars. Objectives should be realistic and attainable. Tactics should be given due importance as well.

This discussion is about a war which will be fought in a piece of land that is not a part of either Russia or China. In this relatively neutral venue, there is no guarantee which camp will prevail.

Taiwan can be successfully defended in view of its geography, technological supremacy and warfighting experience of US-led forces in theory. Whether this level of support will materialize or not is unclear - a matter of political will to say the least.

Taiwanese insurgency will have to show potential much like Vietnamese insurgency nevertheless. Counting entirely on Japan and USA is shortsighted. Taiwan is located very close to China - this arrangement have a psychological impact of its own.

But to assume that Russia or China can fight and win a war anywhere in the world is also shortsighted. Modern war can be unpredictable for any side.

I totally disagree with your novel for a post to describe how the North Korean and Vietnamese had any sort of parity with the US forces. No sane person would say such a thing. They were no match for US military, period.

Taiwan is not a neutral territory, it is part of China. The US itself recognizes the one china policy.

There is nothing to back up the view that Taiwan can be defended by US forces apart from claiming supremacy and their alleged war fighting capability. The US will be at a major disadvantage fighting thousands of miles away against a near peer power with industrial might greater than the US, a military very powerful, a large economy and a massive population. Any such fight between US and China will rapidly spiral out of control and cross the nuclear threshold. At worst the US will get a humiliating defeat. At best they will achieve a pyrrhic victory (if at all) and that will change the status of the US in the world order for a long time if not permanently.

I am well aware you are beholden to technological supremacy of the US, nothing wrong with that, many are. But it's not good to have a one eyed biased view.
 
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I totally disagree with your novel for a post to describe how the North Korean and Vietnamese had any sort of parity with the US forces. No sane person would say such a thing. They were no match for US military, period.
:rolleyes:

Absolute parity in equipment is not a requirement for fighting a war in defensive capacity. If you have a professional army with fairly decent equipment and external support, this can be sufficient to offset perceived imbalances in equipment with a relatively better equipped foe which is attempting to take over your lands.

North Korean army was in possession of T-34-85 main battle tanks in 1950 which were better than a number of counterparts fielded by Americans with the exception of M-26A1 Pershing at the time.


In case you did not know, American army underwent substantial downsizing in late 1940s period.


Korean War was not anticipated in American military calculus of the time. This development from the communist camp caught Americans by surprise in fact.

M-26A1 Pershing and M4A3E8 Sherman were not even stationed in South Korea when North Korea invaded it. These main battle tanks could be dispatched to South Korea at a later stage.


Both sides suffered losses of main battle tanks in clashes.

North Korean army also fielded thousands of artillery pieces including katyusha rocket launchers to bombard enemy positions whereever applicable.


North Korean Air Force was equipped with battle-proven Yak-9 variants.

In response to deployment of the impressive F-86 variants by USAF in the region to defeat North Korean Air Force, USSR dispatched its own impressive MiG-15 variants to the Korean front. This was the only war in history in which Soviet Air Force and USAF fought each other directly.


North Korean military was shaped and equipped by USSR in the late 1940s and was one of the best in the world by 1950.

US-led forces could not simply walk over North Korean military from any direction but had to create tactical advantage by cutting off North Korean military deployments inside South Korea through Inchon. USN made this counter-maneuvering possible of-course. But planning and tactics are important considerations.


When North Korean military was routed from South Korea and pushed back further towards China, China dispatched a massive army of 260,000 troops to counter US-led forces and prevent fall of North Korea by extension. The fresh communist force composition forced US-led forces to retreat to Pusan, regroup and liberate South Korea again.



This war frustrated general McArthur and created sufficient grounds for the change of command in the camp of US-led forces. Imagine this.

Please check my thread for details instead of presenting lame responses and disagreements.

Your argument(s) clearly indicate that you do not study these themes with scholarly intent and focus but rely upon 'mythical perceptions'.

Now that I have covered the Korean War for you, shall I expand on the ground realities of the Vietnam War?

You will have to demonstrate desired level of interest and aptitude for reading first.

Taiwan is not a neutral territory, it is part of China. The US itself recognizes the one china policy.
Thanks for pointing out something which I know already - completely irrelevant as well.

There is nothing to back up the view that Taiwan can be defended by US forces apart from claiming supremacy and their alleged war fighting capability. The US will be at a major disadvantage fighting thousands of miles away against a near peer power with industrial might greater than the US, a military very powerful, a large economy and a massive population. Any such fight between US and China will rapidly spiral out of control and cross the nuclear threshold. At worst the US will get a humiliating defeat. At best they will achieve a pyrrhic victory (if at all) and that will change the status of the US in the world order for a long time if not permanently.

I am well aware you are beholden to technological supremacy of the US, nothing wrong with that, many are. But it's not good to have a one eyed biased view.
Your view is informed by what set of statistics, calculations and observations exactly? Kindly enlighten me.

I am not beholden to technological supremacy of the US for the sake of it - your arguments are incoherent and shaped by 'mythical perceptions'. According to you, most are not even 1/1000th of American military capability but Russia and/or China can defeat USA in any theater of choice with largely unexplained capabilities; strange.

I am telling you that the Korean War proved to be one of the most challenging to all stakeholders in modern times. I am telling you that the Vietnamese insurgency was well-funded and well-equipped by both USSR and China and proved its mettle in one conflict after the other - Vietnamese geography facilitated Vietnamese insurgency as well. I am telling you that US-led forces defeated Iraq after significant preparation and with experience. These were 'defenseless fronts' in your mind which is asinine assumption on your part. These fronts were shaped by both USSR and China on many counts.

I am presenting Facts and Figures to you and giving credit to all those who were involved in mentioned conflicts where due.
 
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how will usa bounce back with this debt sir ?

We are well over a $ 100 TRILLION system and in the next 10-15 years, we'll be around or over $ 200 Trillion. The debt's always been there, some years it goes higher and some years we try to manage it. Nothing the US can't manage. Now that the US is out of Afg. I believe around a trillion per year will be spent on defense and getting advance equipment.
 
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It almost always seems to be about what __ country can do (airforce in this case)

Not what US can do.

Of course we all know that USAF is full of dumb fat lazy low IQ bastards with failed airplanes, and therefore will never be able to do anything in return.


(Or may be not. Let 'em try, though. :D )
 
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