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[Sam.]

Yes, and the Rajputs who eventually became Islamicized. This was completed during Aurangzeb’s reign.




You guys are posting walls of text, but this is the main answer.

Nadir Shah broke the back of the Mughal Empire.

This is sadly what happens when Muslims fight Muslims, brothers fight brother.

A good lesson.

Yes but many Rajputs and Brahmans fled to Himalayas and found in abundance in HP and UK calling themselves "Thakur"

 

[Nein]

Mughal Empire collapsed within no different than the Ottoman and Roman Empires.

Majority of empires always collapse within. They grow and grow then they implode.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The main cities of the Mughal Empire were Delhi and Lahore, both of which are in the Greater Punjab region. Not only that, but the main population that drove their empire came from this region (e.g Shahbaz Khan, Muhammad Saleh, Wazir Khan, Ustad Ahmed Lahori, etc), with some of the Sultans themselves coming from it (e.g Shah Jahan).

You could extend it to include small amounts of Uttar Pradesh, but you're still left with a core region that was the main force behind the empire.

This is a good self delusion.The main strength of the mughal empire came from its control and land revenue over the gangetic plains.Without the manpower and land revenue of the doab the mughals would be a local power,which they became in the 18th century .The main military manpower came from irani,turki,uzbek,tajiks,afghans(later period) added with local rajput,punjabi and deccani sardars.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

This is a good self delusion.The main strength of the mughal empire came from its control and land revenue over the gangetic plains.Without the manpower and land revenue of the doab the mughals would be a local power,which they became in the 18th century .The main military manpower came from irani,turki,uzbek,tajiks,afghans(later period) added with local rajput,punjabi and deccani sardars.

It's obvious to anyone who knows South Asian history that the Mughals only became a major power after they took control of the Gangetic Plains. In approximately 10000 years of South Asian history, only three Empires controlled the entirety of the subcontinent for significant periods of time: THe Mauryans, the Guptas, and the British. the first two were Gangetic based Empires, and like the Mughals, the British only became a major power after controlling the Ganges region. Unlike the Mughals however, the British were able to take over Central and Southern India, which the Mughals failed to do.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes but many Rajputs and Brahmans fled to Himalayas and found in abundance in HP and UK calling themselves "Thakur"

They are not native to ancient Rajputana and Punjab, which is the homeland of Rajputs and where we are a majority.

I am not talking about others.

 

[Sam.]

They are not native to ancient Rajputana and Punjab, which is the homeland of Rajputs and where we are a majority.

I am not talking about others.

Umm they actually are but you free to believe anything and be proud of it. You got no debunk from me.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

They are not native to ancient Rajputana and Punjab, which is the homeland of Rajputs and where we are a majority.

I am not talking about others.

A lot of Rajputs from Rajasthan migrated to places all over South Asia including the Himalayan regions(HP, Uttarakhand), and Jammu.
http://www.devbhumiuttaranchal.com/2013/11/garhwali-surnames.html
Two examples of common Rajput clans from Uttarakhand are the Negi and Rawat, who are clans of Garwhali Rajputs. A famous Rawat Rajput is Indian Army Chief Bipin Rawat, a Garwhali Rajput from Pehri Garwhal District, Uttarakhand.

 

[Ahmad Sajjad Paracha]

There's been many battles between haider Ali, Tipu Sultan and marathas. Thiugh first few were lost by haider but most of them were won by mysore empire espacially under the reign of tipu sultan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Defence.pk mobile app

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

This is a good self delusion.The main strength of the mughal empire came from its control and land revenue over the gangetic plains.Without the manpower and land revenue of the doab the mughals would be a local power,which they became in the 18th century .The main military manpower came from irani,turki,uzbek,tajiks,afghans(later period) added with local rajput,punjabi and deccani sardars.

@Indus Pakistan talked about a core region. I gave one. Just because they receive most of their revenue from other places doesn't nullify my claim. For example, Washington DC is the core of the US because it's the capital, even if most of the US's revenue comes from other places.

And most of their manpower came from, assimilated into or are in some way related to the people of the Punjab. The Pathans are descended from the Afghans who worked for them, the Rajputs are a major community in the Punjab, one of Aurangzeb's children married a Gakhar from Potohar, and I've already listed numerous Punjabis who occupied high positions in their empire (I can name even more such as Sarang Khan or Adina Beg).

Persians are pretty much the same as Tajiks, and Uzbeks are a sub-group of Turks. Both of these groups also assimilated into the Punjab.

The major Mughal cities were Lahore, Delhi, Agra and Fatehpur Sikri. All of these cities are either in or pretty close to the Greater Punjab region.

If you want to base it on revenue, then the Bengal is their core region since it generated roughly 50% of the Mughal GDP.

Yes, and the Rajputs who eventually became Islamicized. This was completed during Aurangzeb’s reign.




You guys are posting walls of text, but this is the main answer.

Nadir Shah broke the back of the Mughal Empire.

This is sadly what happens when Muslims fight Muslims, brothers fight brother.

A good lesson.

Salamu Alaykum

Nader Shah wasn't a Muslim, he was a Persian nationalist. The two are not mutually exclusive, but he clearly valued his Persian identity over his Muslim one.

but the main catalyst was that Aurangzeb dragged it into a costly war in the Deccan he was mostly unprepared for.

No, the main catalyst was the structural problems with the empire that never got reformed, such as the way they handled their military and how the Sultans succeeded each other. When you combine that with the woeful competency of Sultans post-Aurangzeb, you can see how they failed so spectacularly.

BTW, you do know that the majority of Raiputs are Hindu?

Most Muslim Rajputs belong to different sub-groups than their Hindu counterparts. Some of them claim ancestry from Muslim soldiers who came to the region (e.g the Khokhars) and aren't even considered real Rajputs.

Most Rajput Kings had good relations with the Mughals under Akbar but they were by no means "Islamacized."

A significant number of Rajputs converted to Islam during these conquests. That means they got Islamicised.

 

[JohnWick]

Lol nice try, but Marathas under bajirao sacked delhi, and under malhar rao conqured Attock and indus valley as well.

First time after fall of Last hindu empire called Brahminshahi 1400 years ago another hindu empire ruled whole valley.

Bahirao and Malhar rao were Bhat brahmins, just like me.

Enough say
We were the rulers you were the slave.
Shanshah Jalal ud deen Akbar.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

@Indus Pakistan talked about a core region. I gave one. Just because they receive most of their revenue from other places doesn't nullify my claim. For example, Washington DC is the core of the US because it's the capital, even if most of the US's revenue comes from other places.

And most of their manpower came from, assimilated into or are in some way related to the people of the Punjab. The Pathans are descended from the Afghans who worked for them, the Rajputs are a major community in the Punjab, one of Aurangzeb's children married a Gakhar from Potohar, and I've already listed numerous Punjabis who occupied high positions in their empire (I can name even more such as Sarang Khan or Adina Beg).

Persians are pretty much the same as Tajiks, and Uzbeks are a sub-group of Turks.

The major Mughal cities were Lahore, Delhi, Agra and Fatehpur Sikri. All of these cities are either in or pretty close to the Greater Punjab region.

If you want to base it on revenue, then the Bengal is their core region since it generated roughly 50% of the Mughal GDP.



Salamu Alaykum

Nader Shah wasn't a Muslim, he was a Persian nationalist. The two are not mutually exclusive, but he clearly valued his Persian identity over his Muslim one.



No, the main catalyst was the structural problems with the empire that never got reformed, such as the way they handled their military and how the Sultans succeeded each other. When you combine that with the woeful competency of Sultans post-Aurangzeb, you can see how they failed so spectacularly.



Most Muslim Rajputs belong to different sub-groups than their Hindu counterparts. Some of them claim ancestry from Muslim soldiers who came to the region (e.g the Khokhars) and aren't even considered real Rajputs.



A significant number of Rajputs converted to Islam during these conquests. That means they got Islamicised.

you forgot Lucknoe and Agra. Located in center of ganges plain. Lucknow is acually where urdu originated.

and yes there were prolems with the milughalnadmin. As i said empires fall for many reasons. but the CATALYST was losing a costly and bloody war in the deccan that exemplified all the other problems theughals faced. It is no coincdence that afer Auranxeb's deccanncampaignnthe mughals collapsed.


And it looks like you andme have a different definitionnof islamicized, because the majority of rajputs are in India and still Hindu, so i do not think they are Islamiczed. By that logic, Punjabi jatts became "sikhiicized"


As for the origin of rajputs, they come from the hidtorical rajputana region, which consists of modern rajasthan, Saurashtra peninsula ofGujarat as well as the thar refion of Sindh and the Malwa region of Madhya pradesh. They did not originate from punjab, although i am sure there are some rajput tribes living there.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

you forgot

No, I clearly mentioned Agra.

but the CATALYST was losing a costly and bloody war in the deccan that exemplified all the other problems theughals faced.

No, it wasn't.

And it looks like you andme have a different definitionnof islamicized

A large number of Rajputs became Muslim. That means they got Islamised. Not my problem if that troubles you, it's the truth.

They did not originate from punjab

Never said they did. I only stated that many of them live in the Punjab.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Lol you are a punjabi chaura at best claiming turks as your Baap.

Your turkish baap hated your punjabi *** so much that they created Islamiccaste system to prevent mixing their high blood with your kind.

Is this why Mughals intermarried their sons and daughters with Rajputs (vice versa) to the extent that at the end of the Mughal dynasty, they were essentially Rajput in blood.

Muslims don’t have the disease of racism and caste-ism which you have. We have no problem with intermarrying with any race, provided they are Muslims.

This is what made the Mughal Empire so appealing.

Most Muslim Rajputs belong to different sub-groups than their Hindu counterparts. Some of them claim ancestry from Muslim soldiers who came to the region (e.g the Khokhars) and aren't even considered real Rajputs.

There are a lot of fakes. Without an authentic shajarat un nisab, we cannot know anyone’s real ancestry. Rajputs are known by the places of their origin and which of the three major divisions they are a part of.

There are many fake Rajput and Kashmiri Pandits in India. It is advantageous for them to lie about their lineage to be considered superior to their countrymen. If you do some research, you will find out many of them are Gujuratis and other southern groups.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

No, I clearly mentioned Agra.



No, it wasn't.



A large number of Rajputs became Muslim. That means they got Islamised. Not my problem if that troubles you, it's the truth.



Never said they did. I only stated that many of them live in the Punjab.

so what was the catalyst for the Mughal empire's fall? That is debateable but it is no coincidence that the mughals fell right after the war in the deccan. The fact is the war fraied the mughals of their already limited manpower and resources and exemplified the internal problems they faced. Yes I kno it is hard for you to admit that a small hindu kingdom in maharashtra took down one of the world's largest empires and became the dominant power on the subcontinent, but that is the truth.

And i do not consider a group islamicized untill the majority of their people become muslims. Pathans, Kashmiris, sindhis, and others are islamicied. there are a lot of muslim rajpits, but the MAJORITY of Rajputs are Hindu. And i don't care about "Islamization," religion is a personal choice.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

so what was the catalyst for the Mughal empire's fall?

A combination of multiple factors.

but it is no coincidence

Yes, it is. The wars in the Deccan were not what killed them (but were part of a larger event that helped cause their demise, which is that Indians were getting a tad bit tired of hundreds of years of Muslims throwing them around like a ragdoll).

became the dominant power on the subcontinent

They were unable to defeat the Mysoreans or the Durranis, so much for being the 'dominant power'.

And i don't care about "Islamization,"

Then why are you making such a big deal over it?